reusing refilling kegs, sanitising only, no cleaning

[Muppet74]

I am relatively new to kegging (and brewing) and I have just finished an experimental Pilsner Citra smash, so now I have an empty keg that is purged of oxygen. I am proposing rinsing it with a little sanitiser while under pressure, purging the sanitiser, then refilling with a Stout that is nearly ready to keg, transferring under pressure in an oxygen free way. I am trying to save time cleaning the keg and the CO2 used to purge the keg again and I want to get this beer on to carbonate ASAP.  I have searched the internet for examples but can't find anything.

What do you think? Anyone willing to admit that they don't wash kegs between brews every time? Successes and failures?

(Would I recognise an oxidised beer if it punched me in the face? No, probably not.)

Thanks Muppet

 

 

[kmar92]

17 minutes ago, Muppet74 said:

I am relatively new to kegging (and brewing) and I have just finished an experimental Pilsner Citra smash, so now I have an empty keg that is purged of oxygen. I am proposing rinsing it with a little sanitiser while under pressure, purging the sanitiser, then refilling with a Stout that is nearly ready to keg, transferring under pressure in an oxygen free way. I am trying to save time cleaning the keg and the CO2 used to purge the keg again and I want to get this beer on to carbonate ASAP.  I have searched the internet for examples but can't find anything.

What do you think? Anyone willing to admit that they don't wash kegs between brews every time? Successes and failures?

(Would I recognise an oxidised beer if it punched me in the face? No, probably not.)

Thanks Muppet

 

 

It is not best practice @Muppet74 but you would probably get away with it, I would imagine. A bit comparable to putting a new batch of wort on a backfill of a fermenter.

I do clean my kegs everytime that they are emptied via a bucket blaster, I am not so worried about what is in the bottom of an empty keg, as that can be rinsed out easily with hot water. I am worried though as to what may breed in the dip tube over time. Not an area that can be cleaned easily.

Would you taste the difference of an oxidised beer? Yeah I reckon you would, not a great tasting beer.

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Muppet74 said:

I am relatively new to kegging (and brewing) and I have just finished an experimental Pilsner Citra smash, so now I have an empty keg that is purged of oxygen. I am proposing rinsing it with a little sanitiser while under pressure, purging the sanitiser, then refilling with a Stout that is nearly ready to keg, transferring under pressure in an oxygen free way. I am trying to save time cleaning the keg and the CO2 used to purge the keg again and I want to get this beer on to carbonate ASAP.  I have searched the internet for examples but can't find anything.

What do you think? Anyone willing to admit that they don't wash kegs between brews every time? Successes and failures?

(Would I recognise an oxidised beer if it punched me in the face? No, probably not.)

Thanks Muppet

 

 

I always wash my kegs between brews.  Once clean, I fill them with sanitiser and push it out with CO2 coming off an active brew in a pressure fermenter.  Then they are largely oxygen free and waiting for the next refill.

Like @kmar92 says, you could risk not cleaning it, like doing a dirty batch onto a yeast cake into a dirty fermenter.  It is not a risk I would take though.

I have not had an oxidised beer before, but the description "like cardboard" sounds like it would be noticeable and not very nice. 

[Muppet74]

A new batch of wort on a backfill of a fermenter you say, exactly the way I am fermenting the Stout! The stout has been sitting in a cube for a couple of months now while other things were brewing, I wanted to have it ready for the cooler weather but time got away from me and I just poured it in the fermenter when I kegged my last brew.

 

[Muppet74]

3 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I always wash my kegs between brews.  Once clean, I fill them with sanitiser and push it out with CO2 coming off an active brew in a pressure fermenter.  Then they are largely oxygen free and waiting for the next refill.

Like @kmar92 says, you could risk not cleaning it, like doing a dirty batch onto a yeast cake into a dirty fermenter.  It is not a risk I would take though.

I have not had an oxidised beer before, but the description "like cardboard" sounds like it would be noticeable and not very nice. 

OMG I have just done a clean(hopefully) batch into a dirty fermenter and now considering putting that into a dirty keg. Maybe the takeaway for me should be that you can't rush these things.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, Muppet74 said:

OMG I have just done a clean(hopefully) batch into a dirty fermenter and now considering putting that into a dirty keg. Maybe the takeaway for me should be that you can't rush these things.

Just to clarify, "doing a dirty batch" does mean putting a freshly made "clean" batch into a fermenter you have just emptied, using the left over yeast cake to ferment it.  I have done this a few times.  Your current Stout batch should be fine.

Any of these short cuts increase the risk of infection.  I think doing a dirty batch is worth the risk.  Especially with lager yeasts.

Refilling a recently emptied keg sounds more risky.  In my case the previous keg would have been sitting in ambient air for a few weeks, then in the kegerator for 4-6 weeks.  This is a long time for nasties to appear.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Just to clarify, "doing a dirty batch" does mean putting a freshly made "clean" batch into a fermenter you have just emptied, using the left over yeast cake to ferment it.  I have done this a few times.  Your current Stout batch should be fine.

Any of these short cuts increase the risk of infection.  I think doing a dirty batch is worth the risk.  Especially with lager yeasts.

Refilling a recently emptied keg sounds more risky.  In my case the previous keg would have been sitting in ambient air for a few weeks, then in the kegerator for 4-6 weeks.  This is a long time for nasties to appear.

I have never attempted a 'dirty batch' & I probably never will but I am damned if I will not clean & sanitise anything before next use.

[Aussiekraut]

Kegs get rinsed and filled with a sodium percarbonate solution. A little hit with gas to ensure some of the solution goes into the dip tube and I let it sit, usually overnight. Next step is to rinse it again and put some StellarSan in, shake the living bejesus out of it and with the aid of gas, the solution gets pushed out of the keg and into the next one. The kegs get stored pressurised until needed. 

[Muppet74]

Thanks for all the replies! So its pretty clear I should find the time, not cut corners and follow best practice. I do appreciate you all making the effort to comment! 

[Malter White]

21 hours ago, Muppet74 said:

I am relatively new to kegging (and brewing) and I have just finished an experimental Pilsner Citra smash, so now I have an empty keg that is purged of oxygen. I am proposing rinsing it with a little sanitiser while under pressure, purging the sanitiser, then refilling with a Stout that is nearly ready to keg, transferring under pressure in an oxygen free way. I am trying to save time cleaning the keg and the CO2 used to purge the keg again and I want to get this beer on to carbonate ASAP.  I have searched the internet for examples but can't find anything.

What do you think? Anyone willing to admit that they don't wash kegs between brews every time? Successes and failures?

(Would I recognise an oxidised beer if it punched me in the face? No, probably not.)

Thanks Muppet

 

 

I'd recommend cleaning your kegs after each use BUT the way you've described sounds fairly low risk of getting any nasties ESPECIALLY if you keep the refilled keg refrigerated.

[Oldbloke]

I only bottle. Same principle tho. 

 

IMO cleaning is more important than sanitising.  If a even slighly dirty stubbie gets filled always NFG.

A mate sanitised but didn't thoroughly clean his stubbies recently.  About 60% rotten or foamers.

 

Often just sanitising with some boiling water. Works fine.

 

Never sanitise glass bottles. Always ok.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Oldbloke