Aussiekraut Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I have a Mangrove Jack's craft series chocolate brown ale in my FV. It's been in the FV for 9 days and the sample on the bench (taken on day 7) has shown an SG of 1020 since taken. This feels a little high (didn't take an OG reading). I know darker and richer ales tend to have a higher FG but does this sound "normal"? The pouch contains 2.2kg of malt extract and it was brewed using "ultra brew" from the LHBS, which is basically the same as Cooper's BE3. I expected a higher FG but does 1020 sound right? I'll still leave it in the FV to clear up for a few days but don't expect any more drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smash Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Maybe put it through some brewing software to see what they predict? Otherwise, take another reading from the FV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Sounds high to me. I would have expected it to drop another few points. How many litres is the batch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiekraut Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Sounds high to me. I would have expected it to drop another few points. How many litres is the batch? The batch is 23l. I'll take another sample closer to the w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Hi Aussiekraut. I agree 1.020 is a bit high for my liking for a brew of this volume with the ingredients used. To have a better understanding of what you have brewed I looked into the kit itself & the recommendations with it. MJ's Craft Series - Chocolate Brown Ale The advised "Extra Fermentables..." states "Dextrose/Brew Enhancer 1kg OR pure malt enhancer 1.2kg". Unfortunately given all the enhancers out there & the various mixes suited to certain types of brews, that particular info isn't very helpful if you wish to go the enhancer route. I don't know the make-up &/or fermentability of the Chocolate Brown Ale pouch, but have found with premium kits/higher priced kits they pack a lot more intensity of flavours as a base than the lower basic level kits. What that often means is you can get away with using larger weights of basic sugars as part of your add-on adjuncts without losing flavour in the final beer as the kit (or pouch in this case) gives that flavour intensity in spades as the base. The yeast that accompanies this pouch makes for an interesting read though. The M15 Empire Ale Yeast that accompanies the pouch is interesting. Suggested for best results with "Scottish Heavy Ales, Amber Ales, Sweet Stouts & more". All of those beers are traditionally fairly sweet beers to drink. I've brewed 2 of those 3 beers styles numerous times & they generally carry a heavier FG (body) in the final beer. I've never looked at a Dark Ale as an openly sweet beer to drink even with a chocolate influence. This pouch with the yeast that accompanies it, dare I say it, probably would produce a better beer with an increased dextrose percentage as part of the adjunct additives. Not something I would normally suggest. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiekraut Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Beerlust said: Hi Aussiekraut. I agree 1.020 is a bit high for my liking for a brew of this volume with the ingredients used. To have a better understanding of what you have brewed I looked into the kit itself & the recommendations with it. MJ's Craft Series - Chocolate Brown Ale The advised "Extra Fermentables..." states "Dextrose/Brew Enhancer 1kg OR pure malt enhancer 1.2kg". Unfortunately given all the enhancers out there & the various mixes suited to certain types of brews, that particular info isn't very helpful if you wish to go the enhancer route. I don't know the make-up &/or fermentability of the Chocolate Brown Ale pouch, but have found with premium kits/higher priced kits they pack a lot more intensity of flavours as a base than the lower basic level kits. What that often means is you can get away with using larger weights of basic sugars as part of your add-on adjuncts without losing flavour in the final beer as the kit (or pouch in this case) gives that flavour intensity in spades as the base. The yeast that accompanies this pouch makes for an interesting read though. The M15 Empire Ale Yeast that accompanies the pouch is interesting. Suggested for best results with "Scottish Heavy Ales, Amber Ales, Sweet Stouts & more". All of those beers are traditionally fairly sweet beers to drink. I've brewed 2 of those 3 beers styles numerous times & they generally carry a heavier FG (body) in the final beer. I've never looked at a Dark Ale as an openly sweet beer to drink even with a chocolate influence. This pouch with the yeast that accompanies it, dare I say it, probably would produce a better beer with an increased dextrose percentage as part of the adjunct additives. Not something I would normally suggest. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Thanks for that Lusty. I just had a look, the "ultra brew" contains 50% malt, 25% dextrose and 25% corn sirup. I take it the latter is maltodextrin, which is made from corn starch amongst other things. I'll take another sample closer to the 14 day mark and see. It would be a shame if it didn't quite work out as I was looking forward to this one for a while. It doesn't taste excessively sweet or anything like that but of course the real flavour won't come out for another few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Beerlust said: The yeast that accompanies this pouch makes for an interesting read though. The M15 Empire Ale Yeast that accompanies the pouch is interesting. Suggested for best results with "Scottish Heavy Ales, Amber Ales, Sweet Stouts & more". All of those beers are traditionally fairly sweet beers to drink. I've brewed 2 of those 3 beers styles numerous times & they generally carry a heavier FG (body) in the final beer. I've never looked at a Dark Ale as an openly sweet beer to drink even with a chocolate influence. I am doing a brew with this yeast right now and it looks to have slowed right down and has either stalled or going at snail pace and is at 1020 as well .... as i said in the thread below I wonder if it is a characteristic of the yeast ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiekraut Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 I took another sample last night and it read 1017. No idea why the bench sample was steady at 1020. It is a little slow to finish by the looks of it. Hope it'll be fine for bottling on the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said: I took another sample last night and it read 1017. No idea why the bench sample was steady at 1020. It is a little slow to finish by the looks of it. Hope it'll be fine for bottling on the weekend. so basically it stalled and has started again ... is that the way you see it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 If that yeast flocculates as well as the whitbread strain varients, such as Safale S04 english ale, then it may have slowed righ down prematurely due to the yeast dropping out of solution before quite finished. If the beer is already very clear in your samples, this may be a factor. One way to work with that is to sanitise a long stirrer and carefully rouse the whole yeast cake back into solution, making sure to stir gently to not introduce any O2. If I have to do this, I always make sure it's a draft free environment so that the C02 is not blown out of the coopers FV. 1017 could well be getting close to target for this one anyway. You probably are all over it but make sure your Hydro is calibrated to 1.000 at the temp you measure at, and also that you either de-gas the sample or rapidly spin the hydro to negate the floatation effect of the CO2 bubbles that cling to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Another thing to check, if the yeast is a 'top cropper' like some german ale or wheatbeer strains, these can have a habit of locking up most of the viable yeast in the krausen, which if persistent (with lots of head forming compounds in the beer) can mean fermentation stalls. This is less likely in your case possibly but has the krausen dropped? Both scenarios mean that the yeast has ended up either on top or at the bottom prematurely, preventing it from finishing it's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, headmaster said: Both scenarios mean that the yeast has ended up either on top or at the bottom prematurely, preventing it from finishing it's job. Ok, so I have the same problem with this yeast M15 and pitched the kit yeast yesterday ... so if your summary is correct then there are still fermentables in the brew the kit yeast should finish it ... correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiekraut Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 4 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said: so basically it stalled and has started again ... is that the way you see it ? I'm not sure if it was the bench sample stalling or the brew itself and then restarting. I'll keep monitoring it closely. Probably take another sample on Thursday to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 sweet .... it is a bit of a pain in the butt and don't think that both of us getting similar results when using the same yeast on similar style brews .... anecdotally i would say it is a characteristic of the yeast .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 As soon as you open the fermenter and stick your arm in with a stirring implement the CO2 "blanket" is gone. A draught free area is a good idea but it's not gonna keep the gas from being displaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I looked up M15, it says flocculation 'high' Also it is a sub for WLP002 English Ale Yeast 1968 London ESB This is I suspect very similar to S04 and has whitbread strain origins. Last beer I fermented with this, an english pale ale, actually finished much higher than I though, at 1.014, my software showed a target of 1.009. I too thought it had not finished and stirred up the cake, left it another week (3 weeks total) and it stayed at 1.014, quite sweet but really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: As soon as you open the fermenter and stick your arm in with a stirring implement the CO2 "blanket" is gone. A draught free area is a good idea but it's not gonna keep the gas from being displaced. I have thought that too OVB, so when I do that, it's slow gentle movements.. Hasn't seemed to oxidise the beer in any way. By stirring you are probably releasing some CO2 from solution anyway which may help form a new layer. Regardless, if you have krausen stuck on top at end of active fermentation, it's a good idea to rock the FV with the lid on, to help it drop back in. I do this all the time to my brews, good practice I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Yeah I haven't had any oxidation issues from doing it with adding finings or dry hops either. It's probably something that gets more attention than it deserves really. Generally I don't get persistent krausens but if I do I do try to dislodge them before cold crashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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