Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Tempting ! I’ll see how my patience holds out . Rather wait the month though since apparently it’s a lager brewed with ale yeast at a temp of 22-24 degrees , I don’t hold much hope of a good beer here . I would prefer to get at least a semi respectable age on it , as I don’t want to get turned off with a green yucky beer . I tasted at bottling, it was strong and beery but it tasted like arse . I’m hoping a bit of maturity will ease that before I tuck in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Probably got some acetaldehyde in it from the higher ferment temp, it tastes a bit like green apples. It should lessen with more time in the bottles. I agree with Hairy too, I'd have a taster on the weekend, it's good to see how the beer changes with age and gives you an idea how long different beers take to be their best. Mind you, 22-24 is a lot better than high 20s/low 30s that some cats ferment at. I don't even want to imagine how horrid that beer would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Getting off subject here but can’t resist, these photos are my first fermentation. A day after pitching and day of bottling 7 days in fv with finings added day four . I dub thee ‘ supposetabelager’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Probably got some acetaldehyde in it from the higher ferment temp, it tastes a bit like green apples. It should lessen with more time in the bottles. I agree with Hairy too, I'd have a taster on the weekend, it's good to see how the beer changes with age and gives you an idea how long different beers take to be their best. Mind you, 22-24 is a lot better than high 20s/low 30s that some cats ferment at. I don't even want to imagine how horrid that beer would be. Good advice , I’ll giver a whirl on weekend . Shouldn’t I condition it in the fridge a few days prior to opening though ? My palate is not conditioned to new beer so I couldn’t tell you what it was like , I do know it wasn’t rank or off just .... Maybe it would be a bit like taking a taste out of a pub slops tray at the end of a nights trade . Edited July 17, 2018 by Efilnikufesin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Going that quick into the bottles I'm not surprised it tasted like arse at bottling time Probably not ideal adding finings before it reaches FG either, you want the yeast to stay in suspension until it finishes the fermentation, not drop it out before it's done. I normally give mine a few days after fermentation finishes, then cold crash it and add finings once it chills down, usually the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, Efilnikufesin said: Good advice , I’ll giver a whirl on weekend . Shouldn’t I condition it in the fridge a few days prior to opening though ? 1-2 days should be enough, chuck one in on Thursday and you'll be right to drink it either Friday night or some time on Saturday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Going that quick into the bottles I'm not surprised it tasted like arse at bottling time Probably not ideal adding finings before it reaches FG either, you want the yeast to stay in suspension until it finishes the fermentation, not drop it out before it's done. I normally give mine a few days after fermentation finishes, then cold crash it and add finings once it chills down, usually the next day. Hmm , Following instructions has its down side it would seem . Kit said ferment 7 days then bottle. Finings read insert 3 days prior to bottling when brew is 3/4 way through fermentation or when gravity reaches 1010 . I followed this to the letter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Some instructions are rubbish, or simply designed to give you beer, as you've discovered. Whether they result in decent beer is another matter. A beer could be bottled at 7 days* but it will be better beer if it's left a few days extra for the yeast to clean up, as this occurs a lot quicker in the fermenter than in bottles. This is also why finings shouldn't be added before fermentation finishes. The 3-4 days prior to bottling is fine, but the timing should be after the yeast have done their job. No point dropping them out before they're finished. Gravity is irrelevant to when finings are added as well. A far better approach would be let it reach FG, give it another 3-4 days, then either bottle it straight away or add finings and bottle a few days after that. *They're probably basing this on the assumption that the beer is fermented somewhere in the mid 20s, in which case it would be finished in 6-7 days or less. However, this temp is too high for optimum results. Mine ferment at 18 for the first 3-4 days and still finish by 7 days, but they aren't packaged until another 10 days or so. Edited July 17, 2018 by Otto Von Blotto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 I’m going to have to do my next brew at room temp , because it will start to warm up up my way soon and I want a bit of beer on the shelf until I can get a fridge fermenter going , but you got me sold , your system makes perfect sense . I’m on the path to better beer . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 One thing I will have achieved is when I do brew a good beer I will know the difference after 90 tallies of yuck ?! Haha , live and learn ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Probably got some acetaldehyde in it from the higher ferment temp, it tastes a bit like green apples. It should lessen with more time in the bottles. I agree with Hairy too, I'd have a taster on the weekend, it's good to see how the beer changes with age and gives you an idea how long different beers take to be their best. Mind you, 22-24 is a lot better than high 20s/low 30s that some cats ferment at. I don't even want to imagine how horrid that beer would be. I wouldn't think acetaldehyde wuld be caused by fermenting around 22-24 degrees. It is a naturally occuring compound in the fermentation process with some yeast types producing more than others. In most cases the compound remains in the beer because the beer was removed from the yeast cake too early and there was insufficient time for it to be cleaned up. If you do have acetaldehyde then it may lessen a bit over time but will always be there. Most likely your beer tasted like arse at bottling because: The beer was flat The beer was warm It was the lager kit with BE1 It is still young/green It should be much better once carbonated and matured a little in the bottle. Also, I was going to join a local Feline Brewing Club but after hearing that most cats ferment at high temps I will give it a miss. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 18 hours ago, Efilnikufesin said: I love this recipe , since I already ordered the extract and malt I might as well give it a go ! Will go with dry yeast though , not at the ‘ reactivate commercial yeast stage yet’. Only major problem I can see is fermentation temp . Recommend 21 degrees . Best I can get stable is 22-24 . If you do end up having a go at the DIY Sparkling Ale recipe (as listed) & plan to use dry yeast, you will need more yeast than is packaged with the Innkeeper's Daughter brew can due to the extra fermentables used in the recipe. I suspect the yeast that is packaged with this kit is Lallemand's Windsor strain (but I can't be certain about that). On the old Coopers website the DIY Sparkling Ale recipe used to offer a dry yeast alternative to re-activating the commercial strain. From memory the yeast advised was Lallemand's Nottingham strain + the kit yeast. Still believing the strain packaged with the kit is Windsor, I never quite understood the recommendation of adding Nottingham for this recipe....until very recently. It all makes sense now. If you can have the brew ferment between 20-22°C it will promote the slight ester note that is typical for this beer. Refrigerating 5-10 litres of water the night before brew day will also help you get the pitching temperature down to begin with. I hope that helps, Lusty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 50 minutes ago, Hairy said: The beer was flat The beer was warm It was the lager kit with BE1 It is still young/green I would say all of the above ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 52 minutes ago, Hairy said: Also, I was going to join a local Feline Brewing Club but after hearing that most cats ferment at high temps I will give it a miss. Not cause I want to ! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, Beerlust said: If you do end up having a go at the DIY Sparkling Ale recipe (as listed) & plan to use dry yeast, you will need more yeast than is packaged with the Innkeeper's Daughter brew can due to the extra fermentables used in the recipe. I suspect the yeast that is packaged with this kit is Lallemand's Windsor strain (but I can't be certain about that). On the old Coopers website the DIY Sparkling Ale recipe used to offer a dry yeast alternative to re-activating the commercial strain. From memory the yeast advised was Lallemand's Nottingham strain + the kit yeast. Still believing the strain packaged with the kit is Windsor, I never quite understood the recommendation of adding Nottingham for this recipe....until very recently. It all makes sense now. If you can have the brew ferment between 20-22°C it will promote the slight ester note that is typical for this beer. Refrigerating 5-10 litres of water the night before brew day will also help you get the pitching temperature down to begin with. I hope that helps, Lusty. Bit busy right now but I will read your reply in depth over a stubby a bit later . Thanks very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Ok ! So I got the kit , the yeast package with the innkeepers extract is unlabelled, per your recommendation I picked up a couple of 5 g packs of dry yeast on the way home . There were no options as to strain so what I ended up with is saccharomyces cerevisiae . Will mixing this yeast in a brew going to cause a problem? If so what do I do hunt down this Lallemand strain ? What amount of yeast to use if 7 g is not enough for this large ferment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 S. cerevisiae is just brewers yeast. It could be any ale strain. I think lager yeast has a different name these days. If you get the lallemand one you can either pitch it by itself or chuck in the kit yeast with it. I'd be inclined to do the latter myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: S. cerevisiae is just brewers yeast. It could be any ale strain. I think lager yeast has a different name these days. If you get the lallemand one you can either pitch it by itself or chuck in the kit yeast with it. I'd be inclined to do the latter myself. Ok I just started a new thread on this subject, but you pretty much just solved my problem. Innkeepers is an ale , would using cerevisiae cheapen the brew somehow ? This is an interesting subject, I know nothing about yeast , let alone the various strains and why they occur. I have the feeling this could be encyclopaedic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 What I meant was S. cerevisiae is ale yeast. It's just the strain is unknown. It can get confusing but essentially a beer fermented with ale yeast is an ale, fermented with lager yeast it's a lager. Doesn't really matter what the other ingredients are but of course different strains are best suited to different recipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micci Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) The Innkeeper's Daughter is an NFB (reebnikufesin). Edited July 17, 2018 by Micci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efilnikufesin Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 10 hours ago, Micci said: The Innkeeper's Daughter is an NFB (reebnikufesin). Yep ! Anthrax fan , and the song NFL is where I got my login from . Plus it suits my general demeanour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micci Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I'm caught in a mash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John304 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I'm confused, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 19 hours ago, Efilnikufesin said: Ok ! So I got the kit , the yeast package with the innkeepers extract is unlabelled, per your recommendation I picked up a couple of 5 g packs of dry yeast on the way home . There were no options as to strain so what I ended up with is saccharomyces cerevisiae . Will mixing this yeast in a brew going to cause a problem? If so what do I do hunt down this Lallemand strain ? What amount of yeast to use if 7 g is not enough for this large ferment ? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lallemand-Danstar-NOTTINGHAM-Ale-Yeast-11g-Sachet-x3-Home-Brew/272770834568?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 15 hours ago, Micci said: The Innkeeper's Daughter is an NFB (reebnikufesin). Just now, John304 said: I'm confused, Backwards..... "nisefukinlife" is making "nisefukinbeer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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