Problems rehydrating yeast

[Otto Von Blotto]

I guess I'm used to longer lag times because every time I use lager yeast it takes around 40-50 hours to show any visible signs of activity. I don't use an airlock so I look for krausen/condensation. As a result, 24 hours with an ale yeast isn't cause for concern for me, although they're usually up and going before that anyway.

 

Re-hydration in water is far better for the yeast than pitching it dry into wort. To further what the captain said, the osmotic pressure from the wort basically bursts open the cell walls and destroys the cell. The same thing happens if you re-hydrate in distilled or RO water, so the re-hydration water needs to contain some minerals too.

[The Captain!!]

I guess I'm used to longer lag times because every time I use lager yeast it takes around 40-50 hours to show any visible signs of activity. I don't use an airlock so I look for krausen/condensation. As a result' date=' 24 hours with an ale yeast isn't cause for concern for me, although they're usually up and going before that anyway.

 

Re-hydration in water is far better for the yeast than pitching it dry into wort. To further what the captain said, the osmotic pressure from the wort basically bursts open the cell walls and destroys the cell. The same thing happens if you re-hydrate in distilled or RO water, so the re-hydration water needs to contain some minerals too. [/quote']

 

And there’s the technical answer.

Thanks Kelsey

[joolbag]

I am going to use Nottingham for the next batch. I like MJ yeast and was kind of hoping I was doing something wrong' date=' but I will continue to use them while trying other strains, work my way through until I find one with all the properties I like, highly floccuent, quick starts and crisp flavour. [/quote']

 

Norris have u tried M42 New world strong Ale? It’s a good one. Generally takes 24hrs to show a rocking thick Krausen but you will get condensation on lid before that.

 

Once it starts it goes off! I have attained FG in as little as 3days.

 

Give it a try. Im a fan as is Ben10. I’ve used it in APA, XPA, IPA but it is recommended for a bunch of other styles too.

 

Generally I like mangrove jacks yeasts. Good alternative to the other dry yeast manufacturers

[Norris!]

Hey Jools, it looks like the only time I used M42 yeast was in October of 2017, I didn't note anything about the yeast but I remember the beer being really good. I will get some and give it a go. On my next trip to the lhbs I will get M42 and see if they have any of the conan strain.

 

Thanks you,

Norris

[ChristinaS1]

One thing about MJ yeast is that they only give you 10gm. That may be contributing to the longer lag times.

 

I have had mixed results with MJ yeasts. Not consistent.

 

I used New World Strong Ale yeast in a couple of batches for the first time a few months ago. Rehydrated for the first batched, and used saved slurry for the second. Unlike some other MJ yeasts I've tried it started quickly, only 6-1/2 hours, but the first batch had a very faint off taste and the second was phenolic. That was my first phenolic batch since I gave up using US-05. Made many batches with kit yeast (14gm or slurry) in between with no problem. Just saying.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Norris!]

Interesting Christina. This batch should be good since I rehydrated a packet and tossed in a dry packet, but I hear what your saying about the 10g packets. I had 2 infections this year that tasted, medicinal and what I call phenolic tastes. The 1st batch I let it go until it finished hoping the temp rise would clean it up and the 2nd batch I dumped as soon as I smelled and tasted the phenol. Then I nuked the fermenter and changed my regimes to ensure I take everything apart each and everytime. So trust me I hate the phenol taste and smell. I have no idea why it came across like that for you? Temperature? Sometimes we all just have to use what we like and prefer. If mangrove jacks yeast isn't working for you, ditch it and use what works for you.

 

I like M54 yeast for most beers I make, it accentuates the malt while letting the hops still shine and it is forgiving on temperatures. But with saying that I have used nottingham and it was nice and I am on the fence on making it my new house yeast, but I am still experimenting and have a few more yeasts to try before I def switch. I want to try the conan strain and a few liquid strains.

 

I kind of want off track there, but yes the 10g packs could be a little too small compared to the 11.5g packs and MJ yeast tends to be about $1 more expensive, so the 10g packs could lead to stressed yeast but most of my brews are under 1.050 so for me it is not too much of an issue. I would suggest giving another one of their yeasts a try but fermenter time is like gold and wasting it on something that might not turn out good isn't worth it.

 

Norris

[Mikes15]

I'm super anal about my yeast hydrating, not because of failures but because like you I'm progressing on my brewing & trying to be a through as possible.

 

Few points I've picked up from here & other places on the 'tinternet that I don't see here are;

 

- Sanitise the cup & spoon which you will stir with.

- Let the yeast, which of course has been stored in the fridge, come up to room temp before you begin.

- The water used must be have been boiled & cooled, not just warmed.

- Use 10mm of water per 1g of yeast.

- I use 2 bowls, one large & one smaller, the 35-38'C water & yeast go into the small one which sits in the larger, filled with enough water to make it float, this I've found keeps the yeast - water temp from dropping as much.

- As Kelsey said, don't stir, 1st sit for 15-20mins.

- Cover the bowl / cup with glad wrap or tin foil when its sitting to prevent wild yeast infections.

- Stir then sit for a further 15-30mins.

- Slowly equalise the hydrated yeast up (or down) to the wort temp by draining wort from the FV tap into the yeast slurry stirring slowly before pitching & stirring into the wort.

 

One brew I did not long ago was a bit warm in the FV to pitch so while my brew fridge was bringing the temp down my hydrated & yeast which already had wort added, sat in the bowl (covered) for about 30mins, in which time my then 200 odd ml of slurry went wild & foamed up to about 500ml or more of yeasty goodness, that brew was up an running in no time!

 

[Norris!]

Cheers Mike.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Medicinal doesn't automatically mean infection. It can be caused by chlorophenols as well, which are basically caused by residual chlorine floating around in the beer and reacting with phenols created by the yeast. Without this reaction, the phenols by themselves may not be present in high enough amounts to be noticed.

[Mikes15]

Just SG'd my current brew which is a MJ kit & yeast,

 

Ive got 84% attenuation, one thing that is odd though, I had 1015 for 4 days straight, then I dry hopped & 2 days later its down to 1010!

[porschemad911]

Commercial brewers often see a dry hop restarting fermentation (according to Vinnie Cilurzo). There are some fermentables (carbon based compounds) in hops and once the yeast are kick started by the hop addition they must have kept going and eaten some of the other fermentables left in the beer. 

Cheers, 

John

[Beerlust]

35 minutes ago, porschemad911 said:

Commercial brewers often see a dry hop restarting fermentation (according to Vinnie Cilurzo). There are some fermentables (carbon based compounds) in hops and once the yeast are kick started by the hop addition they must have kept going and eaten some of the other fermentables left in the beer. 

I've experienced similar behaviour in my FV after adding dry hops. I was always led to believe the activity through the airlock was because of disturbing the C02 blanket on top of the wort/beer & the wort/beer itself. I admit I've never taken another gravity reading post dry hopping before as I've always assumed once the available sugars have been fermented by the yeast & the gravity is stable, that's all she wrote!

I'm familiar with Vinnie. Has he provided evidence of a gravity shift between pre-dry hopping & post-dry hopping on a regular basis?

Very interesting if in fact it is true.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

It does seem a bit odd though that the yeast wouldn't just keep going and eat the other fermentables anyway, regardless of dry hops being added or not. What happens when you add dry hops and then cold crash it straight away? I've done that a few times also back when I was bottling and didn't end up with any bombs or anything from further fermentation once the bottles warmed up.

[porschemad911]

Lusty, have a listen to the recent Brewing Network interview with Vinnie Cilurzo (Sunday Session)... He mentions noticing it often, and that other brewers experience it too (mentions Matt Brynildson from Firestone Walker).  

Cheers, 

John

[The Captain!!]

3 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

Lusty, have a listen to the recent Brewing Network interview with Vinnie Cilurzo (Sunday Session)... He mentions noticing it often, and that other brewers experience it too (mentions Matt Brynildson from Firestone Walker).  

Cheers, 

John

Also Matt Brynildson is a hop chemist.

Drew Beecham and Denny Conn talk about the diastatic power of hops when used in a dry hop.

Some of the compounds in each hop is different therefor react differently as some hops have more diastatic power than others. 

Not sure what the real answer here is though.

cheers and brew well

captain

[Beerlust]

6 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

Lusty, have a listen to the recent Brewing Network interview with Vinnie Cilurzo (Sunday Session)... He mentions noticing it often, and that other brewers experience it too (mentions Matt Brynildson from Firestone Walker).  

Cheers, 

John

Not that I have much time lately to listen to long podcasts, but any chance of a link John? 

The diastatic power of hops? WTF?? 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[porschemad911]

7 hours ago, Beerlust said:

Not that I have much time lately to listen to long podcasts, but any chance of a link John? 

The diastatic power of hops? WTF?? 

Cheers,

Lusty.

You can download the mp3 from here: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-russian-river-brewing-company/

[Beerlust]

2 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

You can download the mp3 from here: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-russian-river-brewing-company/

Thanks John. 

[Beerlust]

I just listened to the part I was interested in. It was about 2hrs 30mins into the 3hr recording.

Sugar in hops, & a diacetyl rest required after dry hopping?? Has the world gone mad? 

Interesting, but I don't think I'll be changing anything on the back of that info. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[The Captain!!]

21 hours ago, Beerlust said:

I just listened to the part I was interested in. It was about 2hrs 30mins into the 3hr recording.

Sugar in hops, & a diacetyl rest required after dry hopping?? Has the world gone mad? 

Interesting, but I don't think I'll be changing anything on the back of that info. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

I felt the same Lusty.

i felt it was nice to know and interesting but for my brewing set up and tastes........ yeah nah!

Cheers and brew well

Captain

[porschemad911]

Also, did you hear the bit about the dry hopped Pils they make with Aramis as the lead hop? I'll be bottling mine tomorrow night after a week of dry hops. It is tasting sensational!

Cheers,

John

[Beerlust]

You may have found a nice new hop for us all John. I'll be interested in your thoughts from tasting the brew.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[The Captain!!]

9 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

Also, did you hear the bit about the dry hopped Pils they make with Aramis as the lead hop? I'll be bottling mine tomorrow night after a week of dry hops. It is tasting sensational!

Cheers,

John

Yeah I have heard about that and have heard it is sensational. Good on ya John for giving it a crack. Let us know how it is in the glass.

thanks,

captain