THE PICK AXE

[c41323]

What was the story behind the pick axe on the old bottles and why was it dropped

[Chris RUSH]

As far as I know this was the Standard name for all bottles produced by the SA bottlle producer and had no seceific bearing to any brand.

 

 

 

I recall collectign these bottles for a refiund of a Half penny some 50 years ago

[Oliver]

The Pickaxe brand bottle was produced by the Adelaide Bottle Co-operative.

 

 

 

They were used by SA Brewing and Coopers, although Coopers dropped them in the mid '90s. The stubbies went first, then the longnecks a few years later. SAB phased them out from around that time and no longer had any products bottled in them by about 2000 (I'm guessing).

 

 

 

They were returnable. So you'd take them back and they'd be washed and refilled, unlike today's bottles that are crushed up and made into new bottles.

 

 

 

Reasons given for the demise of the Pickaxe bottle include the fact that they were more expensive to produce as they contained more glass, and that homebrewers using them, people not returning them, and the number lost interstate and overseas made them uneconomical to produce.

 

 

 

Coopers has also stated that the change was made for health and safety reasons, as it could not be guaranteed that the bottles were thoroughly washed before they were refilled.

 

 

 

I guess another reason could be that the extra weight (they were about 600g each) and bulk added significantly to transport costs.

 

 

 

Having said all that, it was a sad day when beer no longer appeared in Pickaxe bottles. But I still have some Coopers at home in Pickaxe longnecks, from about 1996 or 1997. And I have an empty stubby. Remember the ring-pulls?

[kieran]

Thanks for that Oliver!

 

 

 

That is sad, but I have recently been visited by Germans, and they were all shocked that we have the crush/destroy/refurnace method here. In Germany, all their bottles are heavy-weight and are recycled by wash/heat sterilise/refill. Deposits are PAID on each bottle - ie. you buy a carton of Coopers Pale ale for $35, and pay $12 deposit for the bottles. When you return them, you get your $12 back (its basically \u20ac0.5 per bottle deposit!).

 

On top of this, now nearly all Tinnies have been pulled off the market, because they cannot be recycled in the same way (wash/refill), and it costs the country too many greenhouse emission points and uses too much power to recycle them - because of all the heat that needs to be generated to melt them down (its the same reason why they dont re-melt bottles).

 

 

 

That's the big difference with Australia, we don't seem to give a rats arse about greenhouse gas emissions here. We just slap on the sunscreen and sing c'est la vie, not realising that 100 years ago, you could actually go outside for an hour and not get 3rd degree burns. I reckon Germany is onto a great idea with their system, personally.

[Chris RUSH]

Although we have no returnable bottles with a deposit SA does have a 5 cent refund on all cans & bottles including the PET Bottles. I understand that there is no refund on wine bolltes. Perhaps evry other state should take up SA.

 

 

 

Chris #9033

[kieran]

the thing is, even with the 5c deposit, and return of bottles - they're still melted down, etc. which makes them less environmentally friendly than reusing bottles. If, say, PickAxe got back into business - and the government instituted a deposit system, bottlers like PickAxe would stay in business, because only the hardcore homebrewers that really needed bottles would be the ones that didn't return them - and even if they didn't it wouldn't matter, because the 50c deposit you paid on it covers the cost of producing another!

 

 

 

While a different thing altogether, I reckon every state in Australia should follow SA's lead with the 5c refund. It cleans up the streets!

[Oliver]

If' date=' say, PickAxe got back into business - and the government instituted a deposit system, bottlers like PickAxe would stay in business, because only the hardcore homebrewers that really needed bottles would be the ones that didn't return them - and even if they didn't it wouldn't matter, because the 50c deposit you paid on it covers the cost of producing another![/quote']

 

A 5c deposit didn't help Pickaxe stay in business first time around, so as you say you'd want to make it a bit higher to pretty much force people to return them (i.e. so that only the very richest among us could afford not to return them). Would people really cop an extra, say $4.80 a slab (even if you got it back in deposit) if you charged 20c a stubby deposit? Or $12 a slab if it was 50c a bottle? I'm not sure.

 

 

 

Having said that, South Australians cop an extra $1.20 at the moment and have for years.

 

 

 

Also, you'd have to make it a national scheme with uniform bottles. This would avoid one of the reasons that presumably brought about the demise of the Pickaxe bottle (and similar bottles in each state): losing too many bottles interstate, never to be seen again.

[kieran]

wouldn't matter with a deposit scheme. it would be designed to fully cover the cost of remanufacturing another bottle. if some interstater wants to take the bottles - they'd be paying for them!

[Frank]

Chris, Kieran & Oliver, I'd like to clarify a few points. I'm sure you are all now aware that we have recently changed to a heavier 750ml bottle for our Pale, Sparkling and Stout. Although this bottle is not going to be refilled by us, it is ideal for home brewers.

 

 

 

I don't think the health issues can be stressed highly enough when it comes to reusing beer bottles on a commercial basis. The risk of contamination is just too great to go back to a refillable bottle. I'd hate to get a needle or something equally dangerous in a bottle of beer and no, you can never eliminate the possibility of that occurring, no matter how thorough your cleaning process is. According to Bill Cooper, our CEO at the time of the change, public health and safety and not cost was the driving factor behind the decision. On the environmental side, you would also have to balance greenhouse emissions against chemical waste in the washing process.

 

 

 

I believe the current deposit system is going to be extended nationally in the following year or so. Perhaps you can lobby your respective MP's to hurry this process along if you feel strongly about it. A higher deposit would encourage more people to think about what they do with their drink containers.

[Chris RUSH]

I could not agree more. In every state except SA bottles & cans are discarded anywhere. Vandals then have great delight in breaking those discarded bottles. All soft drink bottles had a refund on them. The larger to bottle the greater the refund.

 

 

 

Be nice to see it introduced, especially in NSW

[kieran]

I don't think the health issues can be stressed highly enough when it comes to reusing beer bottles on a commercial basis. The risk of contamination is just too great to go back to a refillable bottle. I'd hate to get a needle or something equally dangerous in a bottle of beer and no' date=' you can never eliminate the possibility of that occurring, no matter how thorough your cleaning process is. According to Bill Cooper, our CEO at the time of the change, public health and safety and not cost was the driving factor behind the decision. [/quote']

 

I totally understand Bill's standing in that regard. However, I have not heard of anyone discovering a disused syringe in a beer bottle in Germany - and neither has our German housemate. Surely there are technological ways of determining this, and also simple things like not receiving a cash refund unless the bottles are empty of "crap", and being quite harsh on that point of return.

 

On the environmental side' date=' you would also have to balance greenhouse emissions against chemical waste in the washing process.[/quote']

 

Of course, but while chemicals can generally be recycled in some way or other, greenhouse gas emissions are not captured and reused in any conventional way in our country. This amounts to (perhaps) harsher environmental damage through refurnacing compared to chemical or other forms of sterilisation.

 

I believe the current deposit system is going to be extended nationally in the following year or so. Perhaps you can lobby your respective MP's to hurry this process along if you feel strongly about it. A higher deposit would encourage more people to think about what they do with their drink containers.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

 

 

cheers

 

kieran

[Plonk]

Fellas, its not the punters that you have to sell a container deposit sysem to.

 

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/ ... 941450.htm

 

 

 

It should also be noted that as a result of not filling their self imposed quota of a minimum 72% refillable beer, mineral water and soft drink containers (all three catagories were in breach by 1999), in 2003 container deposits were legislated for single trip containers. Single trip use is on the increase, but I cant seem to find out whether it is sparked by litigous/health motives, consumer preference or pressure from beverage/packaging companies.

 

 

 

My most salient point may be that I worked with a bloke at a pub whos previous vocation was on the bottling line at SA brewing back when they used refillable pickaxe bottles. Even to this day he wont drink beer out of a bottle. Only kegs or cans for him. He saw some ugly stuff.

 

 

 

And Kieran, theres no relationship between increasing GHG emissions (arguably responsible for an enhanced grenhouse effect and global climate change) and the hole in the ozone layer (linked to increasing incidence of melanomas). But you are right in the fact that the current governmernt seem to be embracing the idea that 'We have coal. Therefore we shall burn". Well thats what I got out of their Environmental White Paper last year anyway.

 

 

 

The moral of the story must be that refilling your own bottles with your own beer at home has to be the greenest option of all.

 

 

 

'Even green beer can be good beer'

 

Plonk

[kieran]

Fair enough point about the GHG emissions vs. Ozone, I think that mainly came down to CFC's or something in that regard. However, CO2 and other gasses do cause the greenhouse effect, which creates such environmental changes which are thought to warm ocean waters. This alone is enough to change weather patterns across our planet, causing droughts, floods, cyclones, and also more directly do nasty things like bleach coral reefs.

[Plonk]

Yeah mate, its those nasty CFCs that are knocking off all the ozone. Its pure fluke that we used chlorine instead of bromine in those chemicals. If we used bromine there wouldnt be any ozone left at all. If your really keen to find out more about GHGs etc read Tim Flannerys new book 'The Weather Makers'. Its absolutely frightening. Enough to turn a bloke to drink.

 

 

 

Jesus, is that the time? Beer O'Clock.

[kieran]

I've been to a couple of Tim's seminar, a very bright bloke indeed. I might have to look that book up!

 

 

 

Beer o'clock indeed! Coopers club night begins right on 2 hours time. yippee

[witjuti]

I still have " Pickaxe " hand grenades that i use for home brewing . I have been using this glass for way over 20 years now and its just the best !

It's good heavy glass and durable .

I know most home brewers prefer long necks and the new plastic bottles and kegging systems etc but i still like my old glass in the small format .

[Otto Von Blotto]

I prefer stubbies for bottling because they're more convenient for my drinking habits. Can't get Pickaxe bottles in Brisbane that I know of though.

 

However, I'm moving to kegs now anyway so I'm glad to be saying goodbye to the faffing about of bottling 65+ bottles every batch!

[Anzacpaul]

Lady from work said her husband had some long necks in his shed as he bottled into stubbies these days. Said I could have them and rocked up today with 72 pickaxe and said there's another 100 to come

[jackgym]

Thanks for that Oliver!

 

 

 

That is sad' date=' but I have recently been visited by Germans, and they were all shocked that we have the crush/destroy/refurnace method here. In Germany, all their bottles are heavy-weight and are recycled by wash/heat sterilise/refill. Deposits are PAID on each bottle - ie. you buy a carton of Coopers Pale ale for $35, and pay $12 deposit for the bottles. When you return them, you get your $12 back (its basically \u20ac0.5 per bottle deposit!).

 

On top of this, now nearly all Tinnies have been pulled off the market, because they cannot be recycled in the same way (wash/refill), and it costs the country too many greenhouse emission points and uses too much power to recycle them - because of all the heat that needs to be generated to melt them down (its the same reason why they dont re-melt bottles).

 

 

 

That's the big difference with Australia, we don't seem to give a rats arse about greenhouse gas emissions here. We just slap on the sunscreen and sing [i']c'est la vie[/i], not realising that 100 years ago, you could actually go outside for an hour and not get 3rd degree burns. I reckon Germany is onto a great idea with their system, personally.

By greenhouse gas emissions do you mean CO2?

[Anzacpaul]

Thanks for that Oliver!

 

 

 

That is sad' date=' but I have recently been visited by Germans, and they were all shocked that we have the crush/destroy/refurnace method here. In Germany, all their bottles are heavy-weight and are recycled by wash/heat sterilise/refill. Deposits are PAID on each bottle - ie. you buy a carton of Coopers Pale ale for $35, and pay $12 deposit for the bottles. When you return them, you get your $12 back (its basically \u20ac0.5 per bottle deposit!).

 

On top of this, now nearly all Tinnies have been pulled off the market, because they cannot be recycled in the same way (wash/refill), and it costs the country too many greenhouse emission points and uses too much power to recycle them - because of all the heat that needs to be generated to melt them down (its the same reason why they dont re-melt bottles).

 

 

 

That's the big difference with Australia, we don't seem to give a rats arse about greenhouse gas emissions here. We just slap on the sunscreen and sing [i']c'est la vie[/i], not realising that 100 years ago, you could actually go outside for an hour and not get 3rd degree burns. I reckon Germany is onto a great idea with their system, personally.

By greenhouse gas emissions do you mean CO2?

 

Post is from 10 years ago so not sure you'll get a response

 

EDIT: Final count on the Pickaxe bottles from the lady at work was 149!! Can get 12 to a milk crate so 13 crates will do the job. thinking of getting some heavy duty plastic bags to store the bottles in once clean. they are full of dust at the moment and i'd love to find a way to keep them clean once i've put in the effort to clean them once. Either that or just clean as required and keep the insides clean by placing a cap on top or similar.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'm not sure you could really say "Germany is onto a great idea with their system"... we used to do basically the same thing in Australia for many years up until relatively recently. I suspect it was done away with due to breweries and other drink companies wanting to avoid litigation if someone got sick from an improperly cleaned bottle or some such thing.

[Anzacpaul]

I think that was the case going by some other threads i've read.

 

I decided to place them in the dishwasher on a quick cycle with no tablet to clean the outside. The insides however, have either a fossilized millipede or priming sugar

 

The plan is to tap them full of the sard soaker i've got sitting in the FV at the moment and let them sit overnight, hopefully that will do the job.

[phil2803]

Here in SA the bottles aren't recycled (the bottle depots do their best to smash the bottles) but we do get 10 cents for each bottle returned along with cans and cartons. If you considered how much it cost to buy a brand new glass bottle it is a real waste.

[Otto Von Blotto]

They are recycled, just in a different way, i.e. they're all smashed up and melted down and made into new bottles.

[luxmessiah]

I have Pickaxe tall long necks brown bottles.

I have also Stubbys, short neck and long neck.

They are listed in Ebay.

Wanted to let you know incase anyone was after some.