Mainiac Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I wonder what everyone does. Do you use an ice bath or a chiller? My real question is why not just put ice in it? I use my well water as make up water. It is unboiled and seems to have no effect. So why not just make ice cubes and put them directly into the wort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I only do 4 - 6 litre hop boils but I usually chill it in the sink with cold water for 10 mins then add to the fermenter I might be wrong but adding ice cubes directly to the wort might be a chance of infection getting in easier but then again we use water out of the tap and have no worries its a hard one someone who is into AG might be able to answer your question better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainiac Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think it is an old wives tale. Coopers makes millions of kits per year and in their instructions you do not boil the kits or the make up water. I would think if there was a measurable increase of infection they would instruct to boil the water. I personally think it is safe. but then again I am no expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think it is an old wives tale. Coopers makes millions of kits per year and in their instructions you do not boil the kits or the make up water. I would think if there was a measurable increase of infection they would instruct to boil the water. I personally think it is safe. but then again I am no expert a few months back there was a thread discussing water quality. i made the comment that [much to the disgust of some fellow forumees] my water tanks were very low and contained just about every species of bird, frog and bat shit, not to mention algae and tannins from leaves etc. well, every one of nearly 20 brews contain this water. i also have an ice maker plumbed into this water supply and regularly use the ice to cool my wort before pitching. i am either VERY lucky, or the brewing process is far more tolerant to conditions that are less than 100% sterile than we give it credit for. i pitch at around 27 degs usually and within 12 hours fermentation is normally cranking along. maybe if fermentation was slow to start, the chances if infection would be higher? Dont forget, beer has been brewed for centuries in wooden barrels without starsan, bleach or any of the sanitisers that we all rely on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 You will never create a sterile environment when brewing at home. You can only minimise your risk of infection. So home brewing results in a compromise between sanitation and convenience. How far will you go to reduce the risk? Some people like to reduce their risk as much as possible with a cost of extra work etc. Others will take lesser steps to reduce their risks for convenience and perhaps even necessity. As suggested by Nick, brewing is fairly tolerant to these things and in most cases there will be no problems. But no matter what you do in the home brewing environment you will never fully negate the risks. Even using water from the tap carries a risk, albeit fairly low. The same applies to adding ice to the wort; it is an added risk and your choice whether it s worth taking. For example, if the tray is uncovered in the freezer then dirt, dust, other food items etc may fall into the water as it is freezing. Most likely you will encounter no issues but it is all about balancing risk with convenience and your appetite for risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I wonder what everyone does. Do you use an ice bath or a chiller? My real question is why not just put ice in it? I use my well water as make up water. It is unboiled and seems to have no effect. So why not just make ice cubes and put them directly into the wort? I use an immersion chiller. As an AG brewer I have less concern with the likelihood of waterborne infection as the wort will be boiled in the presence of hops for 60mins or more. If I was using kits and not boiling then using tap water would not unduly concern me as in virtually all reticulated water supplies in Australia the water undergoes up to five stages of cleaning and is chlorinated. Beer having levels of ethanol is not a kind environment for most bacteria. Generally the risk of infecting your beer by adding ice would be very low if you use common sense and use either boiled water or tap water in a sterile closed container in the freezer. Your fridge/freezer does harbour bacteria so keep the ice container sealed. Putting tank or well water directly into the FV without first boiling is significantly increasing the risk bacterial infection. Some of these infections will not be that obvious to a beer swiller and may be as minor as causing the beer to deteriate much faster than beer produced using sanitary measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 .. Some of these infections will not be that obvious to a beer swiller and may be as minor as causing the beer to deteriate much faster than beer produced using sanitary measures. Hi John That makes perfect sense. I work with a home brewer who has been doing straight kit and kilo for over 20 years. He did a brewing course with Ken Holmes and one of the pieces of advice he received relevant to this topic, was that hot water is a good a good enough option for cleaning and sanitising the home brewery. He has had the odd brew get infected in the FV, white film on top. But more interesting, with regards to John's point, he recently moved from a 6 keg rotation (1 CUB keg every 3 months) to a 12 keg rotation (1 every 6 months). Two of his last three Kegs have tasted like medicine and have been tipped out. He is blaming time in the keg, I'm thinking like John. I did say to him "You might have made Dr Pepper" he said "that's exactly what it tastes like S#*!." Please forgive me for attempting to stay on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't have a filter so I'm buying two 10L things of Home Brand spring water for each brew and I usually whack them both in the fridge overnight before I brew to help counteract the boil. In fact, last time one went in the freezer because I did a 6L boil so figured I'd need even colder water. It's always going to be much quicker and easier to heat water up than cool it down. If my wort was ever too cold nearing the end of the fill it's dead easy to heat up a couple of litres of water and add that to balance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Patience, grasshoppers! If it's too hot, seal it up and leave it alone. Although I have been known to throw ice cubes in on occasion or put the whole FV into my chest freezer, with no adverse effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think it is an old wives tale. Coopers makes millions of kits per year and in their instructions you do not boil the kits or the make up water. I would think if there was a measurable increase of infection they would instruct to boil the water. I personally think it is safe. but then again I am no expert Hi Mainiac As I recall it Coopers used to say basically that "tap water" was generally suitable for brewing. I would be fairly confident that by tap water they are referring to treated water from the water authorities and not any water that you may choose to pipe around your home (untreated well or tank water). Depending on where you are some tap waters are fairly high in chlorine and this can give your beer an off flavor that some describe as band aid flavor. Some people use campden tablets to reduce the likelihood of bacterial or wild yeast infections and also to get rid of the chlorine. I also remember Coopers advising if you had a chlorine issue with your tap water then they recommended boiling the water. Boiling the water or course does not mean boiling the can of gunk as that will destroy the delicate balance of hop and malt flavor that they have created for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yes tap water is treated but on top of the chlorine they add they also add crap like aluminium, fluoride (a toxic by product of the fertilizer industry google it) Anyhow I filter my tap water prior to having the filters I was often getting the squirts and other people around town were. Doesn't happen to me anymore but does to a few people I know there is a bug in our water supply called Gardia boiling the water helps kill it but the cysts are hard to kill you need a .5 micron filter to remove it. anyhow sorry to but in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 A timely reminder from Wayne to those who drink untreated water. One gram of animal shite can contain 2 million gardia cysts and it can take as little as a 10 cysts to get you going. Feces can find a way of getting into wells and bores as runoff and cysts have been found 30m deep in underground water. It is extremely difficult to detect without costly regular testing of the water. Boiling water for 3 mins will ensure the water is safe from gardia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien E1 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yes tap water is treated but on top of the chlorine they add they also add crap like aluminium' date=' [b']fluoride (a toxic by product of the fertilizer industry google it)[/b] Anyhow I filter my tap water prior to having the filters I was often getting the squirts and other people around town were. Doesn't happen to me anymore but does to a few people I know there is a bug in our water supply called Gardia boiling the water helps kill it but the cysts are hard to kill you need a .5 micron filter to remove it. anyhow sorry to but in! That is complete rubbish. The only problem that Flouridation of water is proven to cause is Dental Flurosis, a discolouration of the teeth. Flouridation of water is completely non toxic. http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v192/n9/full/4801410a.html http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/CRD_Reports/crdreport18.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Yes tap water is treated but on top of the chlorine they add they also add crap like aluminium' date=' [b']fluoride (a toxic by product of the fertilizer industry google it)[/b] Anyhow I filter my tap water prior to having the filters I was often getting the squirts and other people around town were. Doesn't happen to me anymore but does to a few people I know there is a bug in our water supply called Gardia boiling the water helps kill it but the cysts are hard to kill you need a .5 micron filter to remove it. anyhow sorry to but in! That is complete rubbish. The only problem that Flouridation of water is proven to cause is Dental Flurosis, a discolouration of the teeth. Flouridation of water is completely non toxic. http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v192/n9/full/4801410a.html http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/CRD_Reports/crdreport18.pdf Glad to know you are one of the sheeple in fact I now know why people are leaving this forum because of uneducated morons maybe read this link and get back to me ey? Truth link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I am amongst the political realms and as it seems most are baaaa baaaaa baaaa baaaa sheeple learn to think for yourselves instead of being told what the media tells you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Yes tap water is treated but on top of the chlorine they add they also add crap like aluminium' date=' [b']fluoride (a toxic by product of the fertilizer industry google it)[/b] Anyhow I filter my tap water prior to having the filters I was often getting the squirts and other people around town were. Doesn't happen to me anymore but does to a few people I know there is a bug in our water supply called Gardia boiling the water helps kill it but the cysts are hard to kill you need a .5 micron filter to remove it. anyhow sorry to but in! That is complete rubbish. The only problem that Flouridation of water is proven to cause is Dental Flurosis, a discolouration of the teeth. Flouridation of water is completely non toxic. http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v192/n9/full/4801410a.html http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/CRD_Reports/crdreport18.pdf I have been a political advocate for some time and for you to say this in an uneducated manor its clear you follow mainstream media!!!!! I have been educating people for a long time and people have respect for the work I do but people like yourself who believes the media comes along and tells me otherwise time you learnt to think for yourself instead of being told how to think!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien E1 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Yes tap water is treated but on top of the chlorine they add they also add crap like aluminium' date=' [b']fluoride (a toxic by product of the fertilizer industry google it)[/b] Anyhow I filter my tap water prior to having the filters I was often getting the squirts and other people around town were. Doesn't happen to me anymore but does to a few people I know there is a bug in our water supply called Gardia boiling the water helps kill it but the cysts are hard to kill you need a .5 micron filter to remove it. anyhow sorry to but in! That is complete rubbish. The only problem that Flouridation of water is proven to cause is Dental Flurosis, a discolouration of the teeth. Flouridation of water is completely non toxic. http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v192/n9/full/4801410a.html http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/CRD_Reports/crdreport18.pdf Glad to know you are one of the sheeple in fact I now know why people are leaving this forum because of uneducated morons maybe read this link and get back to me ey? Truth link That guy doesn't even know what Fluoride is and you trust him over a heavily researched 300 page report? I feel sorry for you. Fluoride is Fluorine that has been ionised and is missing one electron. It is naturally occurring in nature and the fact that that idiot didn't even know that should be enough for any sane person to ignore everything he says after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Mark Aldridge is a well respected member of his community there is more info to back up his research just sadly you are a fkn SHEEPLE do as your government says and as you government DOES time to read between the lines!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 here is an example for you wiki link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien E1 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I have made my point and provided strong evidence, if you wish to continue this discussion you'll have to do a hell of a lot better than some random guys webpage. Until you come up with some actual evidence I will no longer bother replying to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien E1 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 here is an example for you wiki link That has nothing to do with Fluoride in the water supply. To get those effects you have to be eating Fluoride tablets, to get that effect from drinking tapwater you'd have long since poisoned yourself through overdrinking (yes, you can do that). It's just not even remotely close to an issue unless you're drinking contaminated groundwater, and there are very few places in the world where that is a problem, none of which are in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I provided evidence by a strong political advocate for the poeple but clearly you are a sheep enjoy your fluoride d***head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I know little about flouride apart from 1)it is good for your teeth 2) it's no good to you once you've swallowed it. But Personally, I think think that flouride should not be added to the water supply simply because I don't think that anybody should be forced medication. But back to a brewing... Flouridation is of such small concern and we have so little influence on the flouridation of our tap water that I think it would be better to concentrate on things that we can do to improve our brews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I know little about flouride apart from 1)it is good for your teeth 2) it's no good to you once you've swallowed it. But Personally, I think think that flouride should not be added to the water supply simply because I don't think that anybody should be forced medication. But back to a brewing... Flouridation is of such small concern and we have so little influence on the flouridation of our tap water that I think it would be better to concentrate on things that we can do to improve our brews. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Eh!L Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Could someone, please give Wayne a ride home? He has, clearly had too much to drink![annoyed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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