Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hiya guys & gals. Just a quickie. . . I just finished tasting the sample of a trial brew that I bottled 6 weeks ago. After reading plenty on time adding hops at various cycles of the brew, I just wanted to see what impact using a single hop could produce in terms of contributing bitterness/flavour/aroma by not just heaving it into the brew over certain intervals for certain outcomes. All I did was, boil a hop variety (25gms) for 15mins & then take that pot of hop off the heat & allow it to REST for 15mins. Then add that into the fermenter. For such a simple/small amount of hop, I was very impressed with the bitterness, flavour & aroma produced by this method of adding hops into the brew. Has anyone on the forum added a hop this way, & if so, do you agree? For those that have never explored this method, give it a go! P.S. Hopheads excluded from this convo! [lol] Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I usually do a boil with LDM and dex get up to the boil throw in my first addition for 15 then add my 5 min addition once off the heat straight into the fermenter however i strain the hops out made awesome brews like that i just prepare the day before and have 12 litres of cold water in the fridge to get my brew to perfect pitching temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Soz to say Wayno, redundant information about the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I forgot to mention my 15 min addition can be anywhere between 25gms to 60gms and my 5 min additions are usually 5gms of each type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Wayno... Get off the usual. There are umpteen threads on here about "The usual". Stick to the topic. Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamB8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 single hop could produce in terms of contributing bitterness/flavour/aroma But what was your wort made from? just plain malt or a pre-hopped can? Ive made a SMASH beer with a single hop addition and I wasnt at all impressed, I was lured into it by a guy on a youtube channel Im subbed to and made the mistake of making it before his taste test. It was as you would imagine nothing spectacular and I felt it was a waste of time and ingredients. Since I dont know what you used (my SMASH was a wort made from Maris Otter and the hop was Northern brewer) then I can neither agree nor disagree with your findings, I just know I wouldnt do it again when the same time and effort can produce something spectacular and complex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All I can say is if you like it that way do it, I stick to how i like it and am happy with the results I got the advice for hopping from both here and Brewing TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hiya GrahamB8. I must admit the hop addition was used in conjunction with a pre-hopped kit tin. I would say the kit tin was not a heavy hop flavoured tin though. Please don't concentrate your thought process on what the hop is added into, as that is NOT what we are discussing here. What we are talking about is measurable impact through minimal introduction. The brew base plays a lesser place in this argument. No matter what your base is, whether it be a kit base, an extract base, or all grain, the hop additive method will contribute the SAME impact on the final brew. Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Do you mean the most flavor for the least effort? I generally just make a hop tea. Boil a liter or so of water, chuck in the hops, turn off the heat, leave it until it is cold/warm. then just bang the whole lot into the FV. pretty much the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Sorry Lusty, there isn't a one size fits all in brewing. A single hop addition at 15 minutes is fine but you can't say it is appropriate for all styles. Also, I agree with Graham in that you can't ignore the base you are using. The malt profile has a major impact on the flavour of the beer. And you can't ignore the bittering addition. Whether it is the different IBU of each kit or your own bittering addition, it will also influence the final product. If you wanted to experiment then you should do an extract beer with the same malt and bittering addition and then play around with the later hop additions. This will give you a better comparison of hop additions. If this doesn't answer your question then I am not really sure what the question was [unsure] But just one final point; the 15 minute addition is a good one to get the balance of flavour and some bitterness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm not sure I really follow the intended direction of discussion here...or the raps on the knuckles for straying from said topic [unsure] I like my hops and I can't see my self depriving my beer from late hop additions. On rare occasions I don't dry hop but I pretty much always have a flameout addition. I can't see a solitary 15 min dose producing a beer that I enjoy. But if it is a method that works for you then go for it [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 All I did was' date=' boil a hop variety (25gms) for 15mins & then take that pot of hop off the heat & allow it to REST for 15mins. Then add that into the fermenter.[/quote'] sounds like a 30 min addition to me (time spent at Isomerisation temps) .. which is not going to add a great deal of aromatics.. Hops add various things at various times from Isomerisation temps all the way to 0'c and there is overlap in all of them. For example, a 60 min addition is calculated as a bittering addition but adds some flavour also.. a 30 min addition adds flavour and some bitterness and some aroma a 10 min addition adds aroma and some flavour and even some bitterness.. dry hop adds aroma and some flavour.. overlap in all instances (OK dry hop adds no bitterness [pinched] ) Combine this overlap with the variance in AA% and other variances in Hop oils will provide an almost endless variation depending on time x amount x temperature. And finally Lusty, go easy on the topic Nazi tendencies here, you will find that most if not all topics here develop and lead to other things being discussed.. Its the nature of this forum. Homework. Hops - Alpha and Beta Acids Isomerisation Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 sounds like a 30 min addition to me (time spent at Isomerisation temps) .. which is not going to add a great deal of aromatics.. I am expecting that the OP will be giving Yob & Muddy a wrap on the knuckles P.S. Hopheads excluded from this convo! Its the nature of this forum +1 I'd like to stay on topic, but I also thought Wayne and Graham were on topic. I have no idea now what the topic is [unsure] flashback I'm expecting a I know what I'm talking about I'm a horticulturist [rightful] type comment [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanI Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I just wanted to see what impact using a single hop could produce in terms of contributing bitterness/flavour/aroma by not just heaving it into the brew over certain intervals for certain outcomes. Hi Beerlust Like those who have dared before me, I will try and offer some useful thoughts here... Have I boiled for hops for 15 minutes and added to a kit? Yes, and it was fine. You discuss your method as being different to heaving hops over different durations into the boil, and here is where I can't quite follow your thinking. The method of adding 25g of hops to a boil will change the bitterness, flavour and aroma of the brew. Sure. And here's the angle that most of the responses have taken: Sure, you can do that, and you will likely get a good result, but this method is basically the heaving that you talk about. You can brew as scientifically as you want it to be from this point on. After a while, brewers want more control over the effect that their hop additions will have (bitterness, aroma, flavour). If you want more control, this is where things like the alpha acid % of the hop, the time of the boil, the volume of the boil, the gravity of the boil, etc, etc, etc start to matter. e.g. Yob discussed which boil times influence which property. A rough and ready example: According to the ianh spreadsheet, in 5L boil at a gravity of 1040, 25g of galaxy will add ~13 IBU. Fuggles will add ~4. This is a big difference. And this is why a little bit of extra thought can be useful in controlling the final result. Staying on the topic of bitterness, Graham asked whether your discussion relates hopped can (which is what I do 9/10 times by the way). Something to consider for bitterness, is the bitterness that you get from the kit. In the brewing products page on here, it lists the IBU of each kit. To see how the IBU of the kit scales down to your beer, take the IBU value of a can (e.g. the real ale kit) (560 x mass of can)/ final volume of beer in litres. e.g. (560IBU *1.7kg)/23L = 41IBU So with the galaxy example above, if you use the real ale kit, you're basically in IPA territory as far as bitterness goes. This may not be what you want. So you could reduce the boil time, the volume of the boil, change to the Draught can, etc... If you're using Coopers kits (unless it's a Thomas Cooper's Selection one), I almost always find they aren't hoppy. That's why I think essentially any hop addition will help. In short, if you want to see what happens when you add hops, your method is fine. If you want to control what happens, some extra (and worthwhile) considerations are required. No one says that you have to do it that way. People are only trying to help. -Dylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 And finally Lusty' date=' go easy on the topic Nazi tendencies here...[/quote'] Point taken. I just re-read a couple of my posts earlier in the thread. I'm normally pretty good with my manners. I wasn't there. My apologies Wayne, if in fact you took any offence to either of those replies. It was never my intention to be rude in any way. I just didn't want the thread to head off on a tangent so early in the piece. [innocent] On a more positive note, the input & info that has been posted has been excellent. On a personal note, I try to start threads and create conversation on topics that can involve a wider spectrum of the forum participants, from first time brewer, through to experienced All-Grainers. Not everyone is using sophisticated software, not everyone is up with meeting IBU targets & attaining certain ABV's. Not everyone has the budgets or the time to equip themselves to produce commercial craft quality beer. Some people just want to make a good quality beer, with a minimum of fuss. If that means at times I have to place myself in the position of "Bogey Man", & cop a bit of ridicule in the process, that's ok with me. Thanks for the input guys. Good reading. Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I like turtles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm currently at work so haven't read right through all posts here and do not fully understand what we are trying to achieve. Nevertheless, in anticipation that I am going to be crucified, if I am adding late additions to a K&K then I often just use a coffee plunger. Just makes things a lot easier imo. Edit: with exception to my cappuccinos where I usually just throw the pellets in the cup but lately have been experimenting with an infuser instead [love] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I like turtles. [lol] Not everyone is using sophisticated software' date=' not everyone is up with meeting IBU targets & attaining certain ABV's.[/quote'] I don't use any of the fancy pants stuff but I'd strongly recommend downloading Ianh's Kit & Extract Spreadsheet from AHB. Free and a great tool [cool] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I don't even have excel on my computer so i've never touched any of those online calculator things. The most tech savvy I get in brewing is my weighing scales and an old casio calculater to devide things by 7.46... Simplicity FTW. Bill's Coffee plunger method is great, I've used it a few times. no worrying about bits of hops sinking or floating about and getting into bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotm Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 From a bystander's point of view, this discussion and knuckle rapping has been thoroughly educational to a brew pleb like me. Learned lots about hopping. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Not everyone is using sophisticated software' date=' not everyone is up with meeting IBU targets & attaining certain ABV's.[/quote'] I would suggest that to acheive the balance that a good beer brings these things need to be understood, these bits of software (and spreadsheets) provide "training" to a certain degree.. I know toward the end of my kit days I wasnt relying on the spreadsheet to get me into the ballpark, I knew where I wanted to be and what each addition would do. If you arent using software of some sort to begin with you are shooting in the dark. I would suggest to any new brewer to get some of these tools to better help them understand the impact of additions. Move into brewing by thumb when you have that understanding and not before. Some people just want to make a good quality beer' date=' with a minimum of fuss.[/quote'] I would also add similar comments to above.. good beer comes from understanding of process and what additions bring to the table. Having an decent understanding of process and additions, in my book, lends itself to No Fuss Brewing. For clarification: Im not saying good beer cant be made without having "software" or understanding of processes but certainly as far as understanding of process goes.. if you have that, you will be making better beer by default. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I agree with everything Yob says. When I started brewing (again), I started on the kits and bits, usually a kilo of malt extract. Then I started reading about hop additions and specialty grains, so I made a few recipes still from kits but with short boils and steeped grains. They turned out quite well. But when I made the move into doing full extract (no pre-hopped tin), I found IanH's spreadsheet to be excellent in determining the balance of my beers, and it helped me create some really nice recipes. I still don't have a great understanding of what effect each hop and amounts and boil times will have, so I continue to use the spreadsheets and other brewing software when creating new recipes. If I find one doesn't have enough bitterness or too much, I can adjust for next time, same with flavour and aroma. But as others have said, there's no standard. Different hops will do different things. ABV isn't much of a concern for me, I'm more interested in making great tasting beers, and the software has been a huge help in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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