A serious crack at home brewing + a lot of stuff about kegs (page 4)

[AndyG4]

i first took up home brewing back in Tassie about 8 years ago as a uni student. There were three learnings that I took back then.

 

1) the yeast that comes with the kit is rubbish.

2) Tassie is a hard place to keep your wort at temperature if you're too stingy to invest in some heating.

3) saving money is a bad motivation for home brewing. At least, it was for me. I didn't care about learning home brew, I just wanted to make cheap beer - which meant I was too lazy to clean things properly.

 

Fast forward 8 years, I live in Canberra, I have a heap of space, and I'm now motivated to try and make great beer. I've become a far more discerning beer drinker, and frankly I'm not impressed with a lot of the beer in Australia that's under the $45 range. I thought "I can do better than that."

 

My mum bought me the kit for Christmas - or at least she sent me the voucher to go and get it myself yesterday. I was initially spewing at how much more expensive they'd gotten, but when I saw the redesigned fermenter and how easy it looks to clean, even without having given it a proper clean yet, I thought "that justifies the price". I do have a question though - how did the airlock go from being a crucial element to not existing? Will the air just now escape because the lid is much looser?

 

So I found a home brew shop not far from me (Butts n Brew). The bloke in there was super nice and seemed to know what he was talking about. For the first batch, he's just suggested the simplest option using the lager and BE1 that came in the box, but I've replaced the yeast with something better and added some hops. It's gone in the fermenter last night.

 

Last time I tried this, I was making very heavy beers - dark ales and stouts. My tastes have changed a lot, especially at this time of year, so the next beer I plan to make is either the Cervaza or the Canadian Blonde. I'm confident that I still have enough experience to be able to take these on.

 

If anyone has any advice on how to improve either of these, I'd love to hear them. I'd imagine some lemon rind and a specific yeast for a lighter beer would be good additions for the Cervaza, because I'm not quite sure.

 

I've been and bought enough bottles to back up with a second batch straight away - I previously wasn't a big fan of the plastic bottles, but it's a much easier way to start. Eventually I'll get my capper up from Tassie and source bottles from the work social club, because I felt it produced a better result. And I have the room to store them now.

 

I'd also be interested in some advice on cleaning. This was my major reason for losing motivation. After spending hours painstakingly steralising the wort and bottles, I made two batches in a row that were infected, and it's taken me 8 years to want to brew again. I would love some advice on what to use, and more importantly where to get it. (ie. cheap from the supermarket, or head back to the home brew shop?)

 

Anyway, I'll look forward to replies, and I'll try and update the thread with how this first lot goes. Having done some research, I regret not buying a dextrose or a BE2 to go with the lager, but I was just really keen to get something on yesterday and thought I'll be making another batch straight away anyway where I can pay a bit more attention to detail. If the lager turns out I don't see much lasting beyond Australia day anyway...

 

The advice on this forum rules, by the way ;)

[Guest]

Airlocks were redundant a long time ago, gladwrap lids rock!! Amd require exactly 0 cleaning.. lol..

 

Canberra hay? Temp control is going to be critical for you, see of you can get a gum tree or cheaply ebay fridge... An all fridge is best, as big as you cam get is advisable and an stc 1000 from ebay to run it.

 

Best things you cam do for your brewing IMO.

 

As far as slicing up kits go, have a look in the recipe section, i recently pumped a Canadian blonde can amd posted the recipe and instructions there.

 

Making cheap beer is good motivation, making great beer is great motivation..

 

Welcome back to the obsession

[PB2]

Welcome to the Brewers Guild, Andy!

 

When making beer in Tassie (Glenorchy), I found that a well insulated FV would hold temperature quite nicely.

 

What yeast and hops have you used in this brew?

[AndyG4]

thanks for the welcomes guys - I should've put the hops and yeast used here initially, you guys might be able tell me whether the guy at the brew shop actually does know what he's talking about!

 

the recipe at the moment

- coopers lager can

- coopers brew enhancer 1

- the yeast was, I believe, Safare 4.0 - thats what I've written down. but if that isn't right i'll have to go fish it out of the bin.

- the finishing hops are Morgans Super Alpha finishing hops.

 

the yeast was pitched at about 25 degrees, but i've since got it down and seemingly settled at 20 degrees.

 

i discarded the kit yeast... because i accidentially dropped it in the can and it got some gross remnants

 

is this going to be rubbish? i hope not... i put a lot of stock in the guy at the brew shop!

 

 

incidentailly, i was up in launceston, which was just too cold in winter. and my garage had bugger all temperature control in summer too. it could've been done, but as I said, i was just too stingy at the time to invest in the craft.

 

in my current house in Canberra, it's in a spot that's cool, so hopefully brewing a lager at around 18-20 degrees is doable, and i'll be able to get it hotter when needed.

 

 

[Hairy]

The Safale S-04 is an English Ale style of yeast. It probably isn't the perfect choice for the style of beer you are making but it will still make beer and won't be horrible.

 

I haven't tried super alpha, are they the hops used in Steinlager?

 

Also, you mentioned making lagers at 18-20 degrees. That is perfect if you are using an ale yeast but if you are using a lager yeast strain then you will have to ferment it around 10-13 degrees.

 

In the end your first beer will be great because you made it. Good luck with it.

[AndyG4]

thanks for that advice hairy, I just want to pick up on those brewing temperatures.

 

i've seen in this forum and even in the Coopers recipes that lager should ferment as low as 13 degrees. So why do instructions and dvd-roms say 21-27 degrees?

 

it seems as though that isn't giving you the best chance of a great brew if an ale yeast should only ferment at 21 degrees and lager yeast is even lower than that.

 

is this just another example of the Cooper's yeast being a bit rubbish?

 

further. is it correct that i pitch the yeast at between 21-27 degrees and then let it drop? this is what I've done - as I think i said before, i pitched it at 25 degrees and dropped it to 21 overnight. it's at about 20 degrees now. or should it be pitched at the temperature that it ferments at (as much as possible)?

[Guest]

i've seen in this forum and even in the Coopers recipes that lager should ferment as low as 13 degrees. So why do instructions and dvd-roms say 21-27 degrees?

The instruction refer to an ale yeast which is what comes with the Lager can. Hairy was saying, if you use a Lager yeast then you need to ferment at much lower temps than this (10-13)

 

it seems as though that isn't giving you the best chance of a great brew if an ale yeast should only ferment at 21 degrees and lager yeast is even lower than that.

 

is this just another example of the Cooper's yeast being a bit rubbish?

I don't have any problems with the kit yeast and in fact it is much better than a lot of yeasts that are available. However, you can still buy better yeasts of course. Nevertheless, as I said, I have no issues with the supplied yeast unless I am making to specific styles.

 

is it correct that i pitch the yeast at between 21-27 degrees and then let it drop? this is what I've done - as I think i said before, i pitched it at 25 degrees and dropped it to 21 overnight. it's at about 20 degrees now. or should it be pitched at the temperature that it ferments at (as much as possible)?

Best to try pitching the yeast at the temp you are going to ferment at imo. However, there is nothing wrong with what you have done.

 

I suggest to get your temps down to 18-20C for most Ales. You're currently on 20C which is alright. When fermentation has finished, leave it for another 4-7 days and this will help even better. Then if you can, drop your temp to about 2C for a few days before bottling.

 

The best thing you can do for your brew is temperature control. Something that can be done quite easily and very inexpensive as far as to say $0 but this depends what you want to do of course.

 

As far as cleaning, I use cheap old Napisan. 1 cap full into the FV and fill with water, leave over night or at least a few hours then give it a good rinse.

Once this has been done I will give it a spray with Starsan which is a no rinse sanitizer. A bottle of Starsan sounds expensive but should last for at least a few years. Dilute this 1.5ml per litre water.

[Phil Mud]

I think the general brewing instructions recommend 21C - 27C, but the little instruction booklet under the lid on the Mexican Cerveza tin indicate that they can go lower - I was under the impression that this is a lager style yeast.

I have my first ever batch of beer (the Cerveza) currently fermenting at about 20C.

[Hairy]

The Mexican Cerveza comes with an Ale & Lager blend yeast, so you can brew it at normal ale temps but also drop it to cooler temperatures for a cleaner fermentation.

 

Below is a link to the kit yeast:

 

Coopers Kit Yeast

[Soundawake]

As far as sanitizing goes, I cannot recommend enough Star-san.

 

Its a foaming no rinse sanitizer, mixed at a tiny 1.5mL per litre. And if you use distilled water, the mixed sanitizer is reusable!

 

Nowadays to clean the fermenter I fill it with a mix of Pink Stain (bought from most home brew shops) to get rid of all the scum, then rinse it out. On brew day I just make up a spray bottle of Starsan and spray the tap and insides of fermenter and I'm good to go.

 

For bottles I just shake them out with hot water as soon as they're emptied, then let dry. Then just before bottling use a spray bottle of starsan, and spray the inside, then let drain and fill.

 

Easy as piss.

[Hairy]

Easy as piss

So is Starsan still recommended if you have prostate problems? [biggrin]

[Soundawake]

Works well as a lubricant for the doc during an exam ;)

 

And gets your insides nice and clean!![biggrin]

[CliffH1]

Hi Andy. I'm not trying to pick a fight[lol] , but why not try making at least one kit just using the supplied instructions?

 

I'm certainly no expert beer maker, only have 9 batches to date, but I've made hundreds of wine kits. Folks often start right on their first kit "improving" them. Well, maybe they did improve the kit, but they will never know since they never had one made "stock".

 

Hey, if nothing else, you might be able to say for sure that you DID make your kit better....and how you did it. Might be worth one kit.

 

Just a thought.

[Guest]

And if you use distilled water, the mixed sanitizer is reusable!

I never have any issues with reusing starsan. As long as it is the same color and kept out of sunlight it is fine to reuse. I do a 1.5 liter bottle and reuse it over about 3 brews and kegs.

 

+1 to what Cliff said above as well..... at least then you'll know what does what and how different ingredients change a brew when you add things.

[jasond4]

I did that little project of brewing the OS kits with their supplied yeasts and a box of BE1 earlier this year. It realy show you that all the efforts on improving the kits well worth the efforts,hands down.

[AndyG4]

Hi Andy. I'm not trying to pick a fight[lol] , but why not try making at least one kit just using the supplied instructions?

 

 

reasonable question mate.

 

as i said in the OP, this isn't my first attempt at home brewing. going back 8-10 years i made probably 10-12 batches.

 

following the recipe was all i did - I didn't have any friends who brewed, I wasn't a part of any online brewing community. It was a very boring, unengaging way to enter into a new hobby.

 

What was the pay off for this hobby? Mediocre beer and no sense of community in what I was doing. The one time I was truly thrilled with a brew was the last drinkable one I ever made (the last 2 weren't drinkable). I discovered a local home brew shop. They gave me some additional things to put in a real ale. I brewed it, I left it 2 months, and it was amazing.

 

I don't think I'll ever be making the recipes out of the packet, because they can all be improved upon - it's why the publish alternate recipes on their website and on paper at big w. As I've also said in the OP, my motivation isn't to save money any more, it's to make great beer.

 

So if I make a couple of shockers in the pursuit of that great drop, that's fine by me.

[*****]

my motivation isn't to save money any more, it's to make great beer.

 

So if I make a couple of shockers in the pursuit of that great drop, that's fine by me.

 

Andy

How true is this. I am also in pursuit of the best beer, hopefully there is more than one perfect drop. If we want to save money then we should just wait for Toohey's Red or Carlton Cold to come on sale (they are always on sale in Tassie). Anyway I don't think that home brewing is a cheap (& nasty) hobby. Commercial breweries can produce beer cheaper than I can, to start with my little home brewery doesn't have any economies of scale. The last three American Pale Ales that I have turned out had an ingredient list that cost around $35. I would estimate that it takes around 4 hours per brew (cleaning, sanitising, steeping, boiling, mixing & bottling). Even though I love it (that's the hobby bit) my time isn't free. The cost of my time is my hourly wage. If I was an 18 yo on the minimum wage (which I'm not) in the retail industry this cost would be around $12/hour. So far we're up to a minimum of $83, throw in the hot water, boiling water and an hour on the hot plate boiling and steeping and at 20 cents/kWhr we are looking at at least $85.

I am convinced that it is worth it, even my straight kit & kilo brews are better than Toohey's Red, and my Cooper's Draught kit(at two months) with LME and Dex is as good as Boag's and Cascade Draught.

Good luck finding that perfect drop and when you do don't forget to share it on the forum.

 

Cheers

[CliffH1]

Okay Andy, I can certainly understand.

 

After making a few batches by the book, I'm starting to modify them some now myself. I wanted to try a couple original recipes though just to see what they were like.

 

"I didn't have any friends who brewed, I wasn't a part of any online brewing community. It was a very boring, unengaging way to enter into a new hobby."

 

I can relate to that statement. I've done a few full boil grain kits and watching the pot boil for an hour by myself wasn't all that much fun. Fortunatly, I just found a neighbor close by that got a beer kit for Christmas, so now I may have a friend to brew with.

 

Happy brewing to ya!

[AndyG4]

i just have a couple of quick questions about this brew of mine that i hope i can put to you.

 

as i've mentioned, it's a lager with an ale yeast and super Alpha hops. brew was mixed on Wednesday night, yeast was pitched at about 25 degrees. it was down to 22 degrees by later wednesday night, and since thursday morning it's been sitting at about 19-20 degrees.

 

the instructions say take the Krausen collar out after 3 days, and bottle after about 6 days.

 

because of the fermentation temperature, i need to push these timeframes out a bit don't i?

 

depending on what the hydrometer is doing, the Krausen collar should probably stay in an extra day, and the wort should be closer to 8 or 9 days than 6 or 7 - is that right?

 

i haven't taken a reading since i measured the OG, but the wort is still very "thick" - it hasn't started clearing itself yet. there seems to be an unusual amount of sediment in the bottom though, which is strange because i know it was mixed very, very well.

 

thanks in advance

[Guest]

Usually the hotter it is then the quicker it will ferment (to a degree)

 

I don't even bother removing the collar. It is only there to provide more head space in case of a very active brew. (You can even take it away now if you want.)

 

When the brew has finished fermenting, I suggest leaving it for at least a few more days. The yeast will clean up a bit of the crap they leave behind and make you a better beer.

 

6-7 days to ferment then about a week after, bottle it.

 

The one I have in now finished fermenting about 9 days ago now and it has been CC for the last 4 days.

[AndyG4]

the dvd-rom says beer will spoil if left in the fermenter too long after it finishes fermenting. i thought this was curious advice at the time, so i don't have a problem with being told to ignore it.

 

out of interest, is that what is considered a "secondary fermentation"? wait the 8-9 days til it finishes fermenting and then put it into a secondary fermenter for another week? (i don't propose to do this any time soon, I'm just curious)

 

also, as someone whose previous home brew adventure was wrecked by laziness when it comes to cleaning, i quite like the krausen collar for that reason - so it it's not a problem, i'd probably leave it in to the end just because it looks easier to clean the krausen off.

[PB2]

Yes, we designed the Krausen Kollar to increase the volume of the fermenting vessel, the clips attach the lid and Krausen Kollar together, acting as one unit to keep the foam in when making a serious brew such as a RIS.

 

When testing various KK iterations, we soon discovered that it came in handy as a "false wall", catching the tide mark left by the krausen. [cool] Removing it from the brew while the tide mark is still moist makes for easy cleaning. Whether you remove it or not is entirely up to you. [biggrin]

 

Beer will spoil if left in the fermenting vessel for too long [rightful]

 

All brews made by you, me and every other brewer carry some degree of microbiological load. The degree of cleaning and sanitation, and the exposure to airborne bacteria/wild yeast when mixing up the brew, an errant eyebrow/arm hair, flaking skin, a poorly timed sneeze are only some of the factors that contribute to the scenario. [pinched] The amount of time for symptoms of spoilage to become apparent depends on the qty and type of organisms and temperature.

 

Having said that, stick to THE BEER TRIANGLE and you should not have any issues with leaving the brew in the FV for a number of days after fermentation is complete. [wink]

[AndyG4]

I have next question...

 

my beer has been in the fermenter for 5 days now. the first 4 days I managed to keep it at 20 degrees.

 

like everywhere else, it got bloody hot here today. it's gone up to 22 degrees, and its been a lot of electricity and attention to keep it that low. I'm worried about what's going to happen when I go to work tomorrow when I can't watch it.

 

the only solution I can think of is to sit it in my bathtub, immersing probably half the fermenter in water.

 

my question - after 5 days, there's quite a bit of sediment in the bottom. am I going to hurt this beer by moving it?

 

thanks again.

[Hairy]

Fermentation has probably finished now so if the temp creeps up a bit it is no big deal. Just don't let it get too hot. Mid-20's will be fine.

 

When moving it, try not to stir up too much sediment. But it will be stirred a little no matter how careful you are.

 

Just let it sit fot a couple of days and it should settle down again.

[Guest]

bathtub or a container/drum full of water with a few 2-3L bottles of ice in it should be fine.

 

Get some old cordial, aka ... soft drink, bottles and fill with water and freeze them. Use them and rotate them of a morning and night.