A serious crack at home brewing + a lot of stuff about kegs (page 4)

[Guest]

Yeah the frozen containers and water is the system i always use over summer as have no brew fridge.

cContainer be better as takes less frozen blocks to cool water than a bathtub. Would want to start freezing some now i learnt how long takes when put 6 or 7 big milk and soft drink bottles in at same time preety much 18 to 24 hrs to be properly solid frozen.

 

[AndyG4]

potential disaster! i feel like such a failure as a home brewer!

 

i don't know why i thought immersing half of it in a bath tub with the 36 blocks of ice that i had would keep it cool. it didn't.

 

i got home from work with my precious wort that i've lovingly taken care of up to 30 degrees!

 

now, it's been 6 days. i haven't taken a hydrometer reading, but yeast pitched at 25 degrees, followed by over 5 days at about 20-21 degrees, and i'm certain that it's going to have finished fermenting. so it's not as bad as it could've been.

 

still, i was going to leave it til the weekend just to give it a chance to settle. i've got it right up against the air con which is blowing as hard as it can at 18 degrees, and it's still only chilled down to 28 degrees in 2 hours. not bad, but not what i wanted.

 

i've had to take a bit of a punt and chuck some ice in it to try and get the temperature down.

 

i'm sure i'm at the point now where moving it so frequently is probably doing it as much damage as the heat - but after tonight in front of the air con,it will spend the next 4 days living in the laundry sink with water and some lemonade bottles full of ice. they've been in the freezer since about 6pm, and my freezer is bloody cold, so hopefully they're frozen by tomorrow.

 

stupid australia. i can see how beer became such a way of life here. but not so much how home brewing did right at this very moment!

 

in better news, i've been spending the time waiting (and while i'm at work :P ) listening to the basic brewing podcast. someone mentioned it in a thread here - i'm glad they did, it's great!

[*****]

i don't know why i thought immersing half of it in a bath tub with the 36 blocks of ice that i had would keep it cool. it didn't.

 

i got home from work with my precious wort that i've lovingly taken care of up to 30 degrees!

 

 

Mate that sounds odd. Do you live in a Volcano Andy. I have been able to get my brew 2-4'C below ambient just by placing 2 frozen Coke bottles in the cupboard with the fermentor.

I did however avoid laying down a brew on Sunday due to the weather forecast over the past two days. I am going to put a Brew down tomorrow and aim to pitch the yeast at 18'C (I have been pitching at 23'C) and use the Coke bottles straight up. 23 litres is a lot of liquid to heat and perhaps its best to start low.

[Guest]

i've got it right up against the air con which is blowing as hard as it can at 18 degrees' date=' and it's still only chilled down to 28 degrees in 2 hours. not bad, but not what i wanted.[/quote']

Keep it there and hang a wet towel over it with the bottom of the towel in a bucket of water. The air cond will chill it quicker and the towel will act like a wick and suck the water up as it needs.

 

i've had to take a bit of a punt and chuck some ice in it to try and get the temperature down.

oh dear!!!.... probably one of the worse things you could have done. You have now exposed the brew to Oxygen and infection. The ice I guarantee would not have been sterile. Can only keep fingers crossed it will still be ok. It has a good chance it will be but also has a chance that it may not. Time will tell.

 

I do recommend the towel in water while in front of the air cond or fan though. It will bring your temp down a hell of a lot faster. Good luck!! [ninja]

[Hairy]

As Bill said, I would be more concerned with the ice than the temp.

 

I hope it all turns out OK.

 

If the worst happens, don't be too disheartened. Learn from it, dust yourself off and brew another one. [rightful]

[AndyG4]

just a couple of quick things - it was ice cubes that i'd put in the bath, not ice blocks. the cubes would've been melted 5 minutes after i'd walked out the door.

 

on putting cubes in the wort - this'll sound lame, but i had foreshadowed that this could be a problem, and did use the powdered sterilizer and sanitizer (cheap stuff from big w) this morning on the ice trays just in case. it didn't get a thorough wash, but i'm pretty confident that i've done a good enough job.

 

after 6 days, i hope the exposure to oxeygen wouldn't be a big deal (especially when the instructions say to take the Krausen collar off a few days ago, earlier in the process), and i'd be surprised if the ice causes infection.

 

i took the advice on the towel - i had been using a wet towel, but didn't know the bucket of water trick. i've now got it down to 24.

 

but am not prepared to leave the freezing air con on all day tomorrow, so the laundry sink (smaller area than the bath) with some frozen lemonade bottles will have to do the job.

 

i'm almost tempted to just take a hydrometer reading now and bottle tomorrow on the seventh day, because bottles will be far easier for me to keep cool- but i really want to be more patient than that.

[Guest]

on putting cubes in the wort - this'll sound lame' date=' but i had foreshadowed that this could be a problem, and did use the powdered sterilizer and sanitizer (cheap stuff from big w) this morning on the ice trays just in case. it didn't get a thorough wash, but i'm pretty confident that i've done a good enough job.[/quote']

The big issue here is the water used to make the ice. You can't steralize that as it is now solid. How do you steralize the center of an ice cube?.... Nevertheless, I'm expecting it all to turn out drinkable. I was just hilighting the fact that an infection is more likely now than before.

 

after 6 days, i hope the exposure to oxeygen wouldn't be a big deal (especially when the instructions say to take the Krausen collar off a few days ago, earlier in the process), and i'd be surprised if the ice causes infection.

Oxidation is possible at any stage of brewing and you need to be aware of it.

 

There is a huge difference with regards to the instruction to remove the Krausen collar at day 3 compared to day 6 or 7. It is advised at day 3 because this is usually when the Krausen has started to collapse so the extra headspace is no longer required. The big thing at day 3 though is, when you lift the lid there is still a blanket of Co2 covering your brew and little O2 should be able to make contact but obviously O2 is still entered into the FV. However, during the final stage of fermentation, Co2 is replaced by the process thus expelling any O2 that maybe in the headspace. If you remove the lid at day 6 or 7 when fermentation is most likely finished then there is nothing left to expell the O2.

 

i took the advice on the towel - i had been using a wet towel, but didn't know the bucket of water trick. i've now got it down to 24.

 

but am not prepared to leave the freezing air con on all day tomorrow, so the laundry sink (smaller area than the bath) with some frozen lemonade bottles will have to do the job.

I reckon you'll be right. Don't stress, the things I have hilighted are most likely not going to happen. I am just making you aware of some of the issues so you know what may have been the cause if something does go wrong. I am betting you will still have a drinkable beer that you will like and can improve on.

 

i'm almost tempted to just take a hydrometer reading now and bottle tomorrow on the seventh day, because bottles will be far easier for me to keep cool- but i really want to be more patient than that.

what ever happens I suggest to wait until you get stable readings over consecutive days before bottling. Otherwise you will get some grenades especially in this sort of weather.

[AndyG4]

oh dear. i may have knackered this up. i'd love to request some more advice please.

 

to save you having to go back through the thread:

- the wort was made 9 days ago (wednesday week)

- lager kit, ale yeast, hops tea bag, BE 1 that came with the kit.

- OG was 1038.

- yeast was pitched at 25 degrees.

- had the temperature down to 20-21 degrees where it sat for 5 days.

- on day 6 i went to work and the temperature got up to 32 degrees. i chucked in 24 cubes of ice that from a tray that i'd sterilized.

- i had it back down to 24 degrees by end day 6.

- on day 7 i made my fermenter an ice bath. it spent day 7 at 14 degrees (so if the yeast wasn't done, i reckon i've killed ale yeast), it spent day 8 at about 16 degrees, it's spent today, day 9, at about 18 degrees.

 

so yes, the temperature control issue when the weather got hot this week has been a disaster.

 

tonight, day 9, i've taken another hydrometer reading - it's still at 1019.

 

what on earth is going on here? the yeast should've done it's job before i had the temperature issues. have i still knackered this beer because of those issues?

 

i had a taste of the sample, it tasted alright...

 

thanks in advance...

[jasond4]

I doubt it but maybe the ice you chucked in the fermenter put your FG reading out. But don't stress I've done something similar in the pursuit of coolness to the brew and all has come good. Just don't do it again! If the sample you have tasted is good then it's all good.[wink]

[Guest]

Hi Andy

Don't fret... if it is tasting and smelling ok then it is ok. However, 1019 is too high to bottle. What I reckon you sent your yeast to sleep (so to speak). Even though some Ale yeasts can ferment at lower temps, generally 16-18C is as low as you would want to take it. Otherwise you send your yeast to sleep. Unless you freeze your wort then you won't kill your yeast at low temps so nothing to worry about there.

 

What I think you should now do:

 

Check your SG today (24 hours after the last reading)and if it has started to drop then leave it and try to maintain proper Ale temps, 18-20 ideally.

 

If your wort is still stuck at 1019, bring your temperature to >18C (18-20) pick your FV up and give it a very gentle swirl trying not to splash it or introduce any oxygen, i.e. leave the lid on.

 

Check your gravity again 1-2 days later, it should start to drop. If so leave it for another 2-3 days and take a FG reading. Take a second reading the following day and if they are the same then I reckon it has finished.

 

In a previous post I said I only take 3 gravity readings but in a situation like this you need to take more so you know if your brew is stuck and when it starts again.

 

 

[AndyG4]

hi guys, again, thanks so much for your help.

 

i feel a bit silly! i said way back in my first post here that my first attempt at home brewing years ago never took off because i was too lazy to clean, and because temperature control in tasmania was difficult.

 

i even remember saying that i thought it would be easier now that i live in canberra!

 

i think i've got it sorted. i'm just not going to brew when the forecast is for hot weather any more!

 

i'd inadvertently oxidized it last night before i posted here. i moved it from it's ice bath back out to the loungeroom because i wanted to keep a closer eye on it.

 

it was 18 degrees at midnight last night, back down to 17 degrees over night, then back up to 18 degrees as of this morning.

 

i've taken a gravity reading, which is now saying 1015, so it didn't take long to get going again. it still tastes and smells fine. also, i don't know if i'm imagining it, but the wort looks noticeably clearer, both in the fermenter and in the hydrometer tube than it did about 21 hours ago.

 

for future reference, i'd love to ask the smart and experienced brewers here... as i've said already, yeast was pitched at 25 degrees. it sat at 20-21 degrees for the first 5 days, before the wild fluctuations of 32 degrees on day 6 and 14 degrees on day 7.

 

someone on here said that it would probably have finished fermenting before day 6, i thought it would have too at that temperature.

 

so the question - what are the possible causes of the Safale 04 yeast not completing it's fermentation in that first 5 days? is it just a slow acting yeast?

 

 

for the record, i've already started looking for a cheap fridge. i don't want to spend a lot of money, i'm only just getting back into this. but this week has been ridiculous with weather and wort temp fluctionations.

 

also, i've cancelled plans to brew again tomorrow. firstly, because this isn't going to be ready to bottle. but mainly because if i can't get a fridge soon, i'm not going to brew again until friday night so i have the weekend to experiment with temperature control in the ice bath. i've also been to canberra's only "real" brew shops website (i'm glad i found out they weren't open before driving 30 minutes), and found out a lot more about how yeast behaves.

 

in reading up, i've discovered about 4 different reasons as to why the brew shop that i had gone to is rubbish. (it's not really a brew shop i don't think, it's much more a tobacconist.)

 

i'm tempted to just use a lager yeast in the cerveza, because getting the wort down to 14 degrees was (too!) easy...

[Guest]

It sounds like your brew has started again which is good.

 

Having your temps go spastic at the end of fermentation is no where as bad as if at the beginning. Although it could be better, your brew should be fine imo.

 

You'd be lucky to have S-04 finish by day 5. I wouldn't be too concerned about it though.

 

If you want to know about Yeast then I recommend getting the book Yeast. Such a great resource.

 

hrrrmm brew shop cross tobacconist... interesting [pinched] [alien]

 

I wouldn't ferment a Lager yeast at 14C. Some have but I don't see a need. You are going to love the convenience of a fridge when you just punch in what temp you wish to brew at and set and forget [cool]

 

It sounds like you are getting things under control which is good.

Cheers

[AndyG4]

do u mean that 14 degrees is too high for a lager?

 

i'm sure another ice block could knock another couple of degrees off. i think from what i've learned this week, 10-13 degrees for a lager is going to be a lot easier to maintain than the higher ale temps. even in the ice bath, u can't put as many blocks in, and the fewer blocks, obviously the quicker they melt, and the more the temperature will fluctuate during the day. this is why i'm already looking for a fridge.

[Guest]

You can do 14C for a lager. After all it is only 1C more than 13C. I don't know how it will turn out though as I have never brewed a lager at 14C.

 

If you think you can do a lager easier then I suggest brewing the European Lager as that comes with a true lager yeast.

 

You need to remember though that lagers do take longer then Ales.

 

Currently I have a Cerveza, Euro Lager and a stout in. The Cerveza and Stout should have finished by now but I expect the Euro to take another few days. Then I'll raise the temp a couple of degrees prior to kegging it.

[AndyG4]

so you have an ale yeast in that cerveza?

 

does it really matter for that can? i already have it sitting here, but i haven't sourced the yeast yet.

[Guest]

so you have an ale yeast in that cerveza?

 

does it really matter for that can? i already have it sitting here, but i haven't sourced the yeast yet.

That can comes with a blend of Ale and Lager yeast.... I just used the yeast that come with it.

[LeCoq/Rooster]

Hi Andy,

I'm a canberran and wrestling with temp too. I've got my lager (started 7ish last night) sitting at 22C with S-23 yeast. Though, it seems to be dropping by itself now.

 

I also went to the tobacconist/brew shop (Butts n Brews). I didn't have much confidence in his advice. I spent about a week on here first asking lots of questions and reading all i could. However, he did say to just use the kit stuff first.

 

Where is the 'real' shop your were talking about?

 

Also, make sure you check out the "Got a Brewkit for Xmas" thread. Lots of advice your asking in there and that way all the noobies can learn from you and enjoy your success.

 

Finally, there is a Canberra Brewing Society. You can find it on facebook or google search. Could be good to increase your sense of community. They meet monthly and have in-house comps and specialty days at Wig & Pen etc.

 

Finally, Ive taken to the fridge option. Temp is a real issue here in ACT. I'll be setting it up over the next few weeks ready for my next brew. Hairy and BillK gave me great advice re temp control and fridge gadgets, all in the thread I mentioned earlier.

 

Glad you're on here. Nice to have a fellow canberran to muddle along with on here.

 

Dink Dink

 

 

[AndyG4]

the brewing society sounds awesome! i'll start producing killer beer and get along :)

 

yep, i'll be taking the fridge option as well. living alone at the moment, but it occured to me today that if/when i get housemates in a couple of weeks, i'm going to need a bigger fridge.

 

hence - old fridge = fermenting fridge :) will be sourcing temp control from ebay when possible. i'd imagine i'm going to need a heating source in a couple of months too...

 

and the genuine brew shop, from what i've read and heard, is brew your own at home in kambah. from my place in gungahlin, not much fun... but surely worth a trip every month or two.

[AndyG4]

this beer appears to have reached its final gravity at 1015. it's been at this point since Saturday night, having been at 18 degrees since then.

 

I may have added too much water - when considering ice. it was closer to 24l than 23. I would've thought water thinning it out would have made it closer to 1000 because it's thinner. is this wrong?

 

today is 13 days. should I be bottling this tonights?

 

 

tbh, it tastes pretty boring at the moment. given that I'm just starting out and don't have a stockpile of bottles, this beer is so boring I may only bottle half of it.

 

and also, I'll be reconsidering the cerveza as my next brew for this reason. I think I'll be picking up a can of real ale later in the week. cascade hops that I already have should be good from what I've read, along with some LDM and BE2 that I already have - and I'll probably just use the kit yeast. and a second effort at brewing at 18 degrees :P

 

a tastier brew with a minimum of fuss.

 

but I digress - should I be bottling tonight? and would chucking half of it be criminal? I just can't imagine that a lager can is going to get much tastier in the bottle.

[Guest]

1015 is a bit high to be honest. I suggest upping the temp a little and maybe giving the FV a bit of a swirl, without splashing. Leave it for another day or so and hopefully fermentation will start again.

 

Are you kegging or bottling in glass or PET bottles?

[AndyG4]

this beer's about to go in the gutter...

 

i got it up to 21 degrees on monday night and gave it a swirl, and let it get to 24 degrees on tuesday. i was really pleased with myself yesterday afternoon as i sat there watching the now-nearly empty hop bag bounce from the bottom to the top then back to the bottom again.

 

but i tested the gravity, and it still hasn't moved from 1015 (if anything, it's gone up to about 1017[innocent]). i persisted, despite it having been 14 days, because the taste had changed - it had gotten some more bitterness about it.

 

it's now been 15 days, it's up at 23 degrees as i type, and my gravity is right where it has been for 5 days. it has a lot more bitterness to it than it did over the weekend, and it's crystal clear.

 

but now i'm confusing myself - it still smells good, but i've confused myself as to whether that taste is bitterness, or whether the beer is starting to turn.

 

i'm only going to bottle half (the 750ml pet bottles that came with the kit) to see whether it works, and probably kick myself in 2 months if it did work.

 

unless someone jumps on here in the next couple of hours and gives me another suggestion, thats the plan. the other thing i'm baring in mind is that we have a forecast low overnight of 6 degrees tonight, and to be honest i'm a bit over it until i can get a new fridge and downgrade the current fridge to fermenting fridge.

[Hairy]

Bottle it all into PETs and you should be right. If you find that they start to gas up too much then you can loosen the caps to release the pressure and re-tighten.

 

Thats the beauty of PET.

 

And give it some time in the bottle. The taste really does change over time; the roughness & bitterness will mellow. If you tip out half now you will kick yourself.

 

The only reason it should go into the gutter is because you drank it and went for a slash [biggrin]

[Guest]

If it hasn't moved and you are using PET bottles then bottle the whole lot. I just wonder if you read the hydrometer correctly or if it may actually be out a few points. Have you tested your hydrometer in 20C water. It should read 1000 at that.

 

Bottle the lot in PETS and after 14 days try one. If the carbonation seem ok then try another in a week or so. If at anytime it seems to be over carbonated then just crack the lids briefly on the remaining bottles and you should be right.

[Guest]

lol Hairy beat me to the punch [innocent]

[AndyG4]

thanks to you guys, and to everyone who has provided me advice, it's been really great.

 

i certainly don't remember it being this hard last time, but i guess i was just doing the out of the box fool proof recipes, whereas this time i was a bit more ambitious (but also naive) about temperatures.

 

i'll report back on how it goes. and hopefully won't need this much advice if i can't wait for the fridge and back what i've learned about temperature control to brew an ale.