RAPT Pill

[Aussiekraut]

Does anybody use a RAPT Pill?

I quite like it but I have two "issues", I cannot figure out. The first one is likely a software problem. Even after being fully charged, it tells me the battery is a 0%, which is balder dash. Is that just mine doing it?

The other is its initial readings. I must say, I only did the simple calibration in a bucket of plain water, so this may be part of it. But I put a beer down last week with an OG of 1.046 according to my hydrometer and the refractometer. However the pill read 1.053 from the beginning. Once the  yeast had kicked in, it all came down quite fast and seems to be accurate. At least the reading matched what the hydrometer told me on Thursday. Will a more thorough calibration help with? 

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

Will a more thorough calibration help with?

Probably.

I use a couple of iSpindels, that work in a similar way.  I calibrated them using sugar solution at 6-7 different SG's from 1.070 to 1.010.  Their readings still do not match my corresponding hydrometer readings in real beer.  I should do some recalibration, but am too lazy to.

It would be worth your while to add a calibration point or two to your Pill set up.  You have at least one OG case to use.   It should give you more reliable readings, especially around your typical OG range.

Sorry I cannot help with the battery reading.  That's probably a question for Kegland.

[Aussiekraut]

1 minute ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Probably.

I use a couple of iSpindels, that work in a similar way.  I calibrated them using sugar solution at 6-7 different SG's from 1.070 to 1.010.  Their readings still do not match my corresponding hydrometer readings in real beer.  I should do some recalibration, but am too lazy to.

It would be worth your while to add a calibration point or two to your Pill set up.  You have at least one OG case to use.   It should give you more reliable readings, especially around your typical OG range.

Sorry I cannot help with the battery reading.  That's probably a question for Kegland.

I have an iSpindel too but calibrating that one is a bit of a pain and once I have to fiddle with Excel sheets, I throw my hands up in despair. I don't do excel or any other spread sheet particularly well. I know that's bad coming from somebody who's been in the IT industry for well over 30 years  

Using a fresh batch with a known OG reading to calibrate isn't a bad idea at all. Next batch I use it, I'll try it. If it all comes together, I may get another one for the other FV. I like watching the graph change over time without having to take a sample. 

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

I like watching the graph change over time without having to take a sample. 

Agree.  And even if mine are not overly accurate, they are still good for seeing when dry hopping and temp raises are coming up.  And even if they are 10 points off, you can still see that fermentation has stopped.  I always check my OG and FG with a hydrometer.

[ozdevil]

19 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Does anybody use a RAPT Pill?

I quite like it but I have two "issues", I cannot figure out. The first one is likely a software problem. Even after being fully charged, it tells me the battery is a 0%, which is balder dash. Is that just mine doing it?

The other is its initial readings. I must say, I only did the simple calibration in a bucket of plain water, so this may be part of it. But I put a beer down last week with an OG of 1.046 according to my hydrometer and the refractometer. However the pill read 1.053 from the beginning. Once the  yeast had kicked in, it all came down quite fast and seems to be accurate. At least the reading matched what the hydrometer told me on Thursday. Will a more thorough calibration help with? 

i actually have 3 rapt pills

1.  did you remove the blue tape from the batteries (alot of people have charged theres up to find they left the blue tape  on hence why not showing 100%)

2 did you charge for a full 24hours

3  is the positive and negative points making good contact with the battery some have had to spread the ternimals out a fraction to make a solid contact


the second question   

initially i believe the pill reads a bit higher then suggests on hydrometer and will then settle to  your S.G   my 3 pills do it as well 

the simple calibration in water should be fine but  the advanced calibration you will need to do it in water and 2 part of calibration in wort 

doing the advanced may give you a better reading i have yet to do that myself


Also may i suggest you join the Rapt users Rapt Users Group  on facebook    the developer  Trent Devers  will answer these questions or you definately willfind more related Answers to your questions there

Also now you can create a webhook through a custom stream  on brewfather for the Rapt Pill
 

Edited April 10, 2022 by ozdevil

[Aussiekraut]

40 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

i actually have 3 rapt pills

1.  did you remove the blue tape from the batteries (alot of people have charged theres up to find they left the blue tape  on hence why not showing 100%)

2 did you charge for a full 24hours

3  is the positive and negative points making good contact with the battery some have had to spread the ternimals out a fraction to make a solid contact


the second question   

initially i believe the pill reads a bit higher then suggests on hydrometer and will then settle to  your S.G   my 3 pills do it as well 

the simple calibration in water should be fine but  the advanced calibration you will need to do it in water and 2 part of calibration in wort 

doing the advanced may give you a better reading i have yet to do that myself


Also may i suggest you join the Rapt users Rapt Users Group  on facebook    the developer  Trent Devers  will answer these questions or you definately willfind more related Answers to your questions there

Also now you can create a webhook through a custom stream  on brewfather for the Rapt Pill
 

Thanks @ozdevil

Yes, it was all charged and happy. It sat on charger for a whole day and the red light went off, telling me the battery was full. But it only ever showed 0% charge. 

It seems to be working fine, although it had a big drop out yesterday, where it didn't report any telemetry for several hours but was back sending this morning. Firmware is apparently up to date too. I'll take it out tonight anyway as the beer is about to be CCed and there isn't much point leaving it in there and I won't need it until next brew day, when I will re-calibrate it in a fresh wort with known OG. 

 

[kmar92]

I have received a rapt pill today, so I thought that I may add some comments to this discussion. I have still have the pill charging for the recommended 24 hour period. I did the registration on the rapt portal, upgraded the firmware on the pill and then attempted to register it. I was eventually successful, but really KL have a way to go to get good IT stuff happening. Just have a look at their website, it is pretty damn ordinary. The pill itself seems to be very good but I will reserve judgement until after I have it fully charged and have done a brew with it. On the other hand the rapt portal that they use is just rubbish, I am sure that the software is good but the whole portal and registration stuff is pretty 2nd rate and that is probably why they are getting so much bad feedback about their rapt products.

[ozdevil]

7 hours ago, kmar92 said:

I have received a rapt pill today, so I thought that I may add some comments to this discussion. I have still have the pill charging for the recommended 24 hour period. I did the registration on the rapt portal, upgraded the firmware on the pill and then attempted to register it. I was eventually successful, but really KL have a way to go to get good IT stuff happening. Just have a look at their website, it is pretty damn ordinary. The pill itself seems to be very good but I will reserve judgement until after I have it fully charged and have done a brew with it. On the other hand the rapt portal that they use is just rubbish, I am sure that the software is good but the whole portal and registration stuff is pretty 2nd rate and that is probably why they are getting so much bad feedback about their rapt products.

kmar  yes there portal and registration stuff is pretty second rate and hopefully  intime there will be some good updates coming   

alot of the bad feedback is user error as well  

Trent,  the developer,   is approachable  and will take onboard suggestions   for improvements or bugs  in the system  

infact Trent and Kegland are pretty transparent and have allowed us end users to   see what is planned indevelopment and whats in preview before they release as well as open area 
where us end users can suggest things as long as it isnt repeated suggestion   they will take it on board.


its not a perfect system but its not complicated either  

I have  the rapt temp controller as well as  gen4 + 3 pills  in the rapt family and i have not had issues 

There  is a new version coming soon that enables Bluetooth with a Rapt fermentation chamber or temperature controller.

when this happens  alot of pill users that use stainless FV's will be able to connect the pill via bluetooth to Temp controller or fv chamber  to relay
the info back to your  Rapt cloud which should in theory eliminate  poor signal strength via wifi connection


I also believe  the Rapt Cloud is just a temporary measure until the actuall rapt app is developed  (i Could be very mistaken here)


Its not Perfect but they are working on improvements


 



 

[kmar92]

Well I have discovered 1 thing about RAPT pills. KL say on their website that there is an optional upgraded antenna for RAPT pills that allows them to operate in a S/S kegmenter. I enquired with KL about this, as I mostly use my S/S kegmenter for fermenting. KL told me that the optional antenna was not available but that the RAPT pill "should " work in a S/S kegmenter, so long as it is close to the router. Well my RAPT pill does not work in my S/S kegmenter, the router is next to the ferment fridge. Obviously there is too much attenuation of the pill's signal and it will not pass through the stainless steel of the kegmenter. So it looks like it will only be used in my plastic fermenters when I use them.

[ozdevil]

14 hours ago, kmar92 said:

Well I have discovered 1 thing about RAPT pills. KL say on their website that there is an optional upgraded antenna for RAPT pills that allows them to operate in a S/S kegmenter. I enquired with KL about this, as I mostly use my S/S kegmenter for fermenting. KL told me that the optional antenna was not available but that the RAPT pill "should " work in a S/S kegmenter, so long as it is close to the router. Well my RAPT pill does not work in my S/S kegmenter, the router is next to the ferment fridge. Obviously there is too much attenuation of the pill's signal and it will not pass through the stainless steel of the kegmenter. So it looks like it will only be used in my plastic fermenters when I use them.

once bluetooth  is enabled  on the rapt pill   you maybe able to transmit the bluetooth signal to a tablet and use the tablet as a repeater   to transmit the telementry  to pc or whatever program you will use  .    
 

[kmar92]

10 hours ago, ozdevil said:

once bluetooth  is enabled  on the rapt pill   you maybe able to transmit the bluetooth signal to a tablet and use the tablet as a repeater   to transmit the telementry  to pc or whatever program you will use  .    
 

Yeah thanks @ozdevil but at present there does not seem to be any timeframe on when they may implement the bluetooth capability. That is OK I will just use it for my plastic FV's at this stage. They may even come up with the enhanced antenna they talk about at some stage but all developments, understandably, take considerable time.

[ozdevil]

49 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Yeah thanks @ozdevil but at present there does not seem to be any timeframe on when they may implement the bluetooth capability. That is OK I will just use it for my plastic FV's at this stage. They may even come up with the enhanced antenna they talk about at some stage but all developments, understandably, take considerable time.

i have been following the rapt ecosystem pretty carefully 

its not very far off,  its in preview stage    and i am tipping it will happen this week or next.....the developer Trent Devers  has already hinted this.

infact kmar why not go to https://gitlab.com/rapt.io/public/-/boards?fbclid=IwAR1lpWDi_qR3p0mbDw7CvgKoSQ0kJJU8FgpcC-xk1ZCLdqV5eolwxDZjZfg  create ticket
and mention the enhanced antenna you mention   as the more people vote on your idea  kegland and Trent Devers will implemement this   to either planned   in development or into in preview

once it goes through those 3   its released

you have nothing to lose by  suggesting something and hoping other rapt users jump on board with your idea

[kmar92]

Thanks @ozdevil I am thinking that the enhanced antenna is already a job in progress and they are probably just waiting for it to be manufactured and shipped to Australia. I still may log a ticket on their gitlab site.

I am waiting to see how the RAPT pill has survived in my S/S kegmenter, I was not 100% happy with the way that the pill went together as the 1st o-ring was still visible (sort of 1/2 under the end cap) but I could not tighten the end of the pill anymore. It will have been under 15psi pressure for a week or so by the time that I can retrieve so it will be a good test as to how well it actually seals. I tried many attempts at tightening but I am thinking that there are some minor imperfections in the molded plastic that may be causing the problem, then again it may not be a problem at all, all will be revealed once the pill comes out of the FV.

[ozdevil]

1 minute ago, kmar92 said:

Thanks @ozdevil I am thinking that the enhanced antenna is already a job in progress and they are probably just waiting for it to be manufactured and shipped to Australia. I still may log a ticket on their gitlab site.

I am waiting to see how the RAPT pill has survived in my S/S kegmenter, I was not 100% happy with the way that the pill went together as the 1st o-ring was still visible (sort of 1/2 under the end cap) but I could not tighten the end of the pill anymore. It will have been under 15psi pressure for a week or so by the time that I can retrieve so it will be a good test as to how well it actually seals. I tried many attempts at tightening but I am thinking that there are some minor imperfections in the molded plastic that may be causing the problem, then again it may not be a problem at all, all will be revealed once the pill comes out of the FV.

i still would log a ticket if no one has mentioned it yet..   

now  the 2nd o-ring is there for protection really just in case the firtst o-ring fails 

i  have 3 off the pills    each one seals perfect and 2 of them  have been done under pressure but not in SS fv's

however   use some food grade lubricant on the o-rings  you will find it alot easier to seal right up to the 2nd o-ring which still can be seen.

if your pill  was firm on the 1st o-ring    you should be fine.

 

[kmar92]

4 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

i still would log a ticket if no one has mentioned it yet..   

now  the 2nd o-ring is there for protection really just in case the firtst o-ring fails 

i  have 3 off the pills    each one seals perfect and 2 of them  have been done under pressure but not in SS fv's

however   use some food grade lubricant on the o-rings  you will find it alot easier to seal right up to the 2nd o-ring which still can be seen.

if your pill  was firm on the 1st o-ring    you should be fine.

 

Yep did all that, used lube on the seals, etc. I just was not 100% happy with how it went together, but anyway it is in the test stage and I will see how it comes out of the FV soon.

Logging a ticket now.

[ozdevil]

6 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Yep did all that, used lube on the seals, etc. I just was not 100% happy with how it went together, but anyway it is in the test stage and I will see how it comes out of the FV soon.

Logging a ticket now.

i'll give it a vote lol

[Marty_G]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:46 PM, kmar92 said:

Well I have discovered 1 thing about RAPT pills. KL say on their website that there is an optional upgraded antenna for RAPT pills that allows them to operate in a S/S kegmenter. I enquired with KL about this, as I mostly use my S/S kegmenter for fermenting. KL told me that the optional antenna was not available but that the RAPT pill "should " work in a S/S kegmenter, so long as it is close to the router. Well my RAPT pill does not work in my S/S kegmenter, the router is next to the ferment fridge. Obviously there is too much attenuation of the pill's signal and it will not pass through the stainless steel of the kegmenter. So it looks like it will only be used in my plastic fermenters when I use them.

I don't have  a RAPT but did have an iSpindle and it was a waster of good money.  I brew in SS and the iSpindle did not work. So bought a repeater to boost the signal and that did not pick up the signal. So bought new batteries as the voltage was down a bit and still did not work.  All was good when using a plastic FV but I have only done one brew in plastic in the last 3years and it was the one to test the iSpindle.  My verdict is they are a waste of money for those who use more contemporary methods of ferment like pressure in a SS FV. 

[kmar92]

Well after a lot of friggin around, experimentation and re-wiring my router with longer cables I have finally succeeded in getting the rapt pill to work in my S/S kegmenter sitting in the ferment fridge. With longer cables on my router I managed to get the router right up against the fridge and after experimenting with it in different positions and orientations the RAPT pill is now sending telemetry to the RAPT portal. It has been updating the temperature and SG readings to the RAPT cloud every hour (as it is set up to do)  for nearly the last 24 hours so I reckon that it is a success!

Very pleased with that, although it took a little time to achieve.

[ozdevil]

On 4/21/2022 at 5:25 PM, kmar92 said:

Well after a lot of friggin around, experimentation and re-wiring my router with longer cables I have finally succeeded in getting the rapt pill to work in my S/S kegmenter sitting in the ferment fridge. With longer cables on my router I managed to get the router right up against the fridge and after experimenting with it in different positions and orientations the RAPT pill is now sending telemetry to the RAPT portal. It has been updating the temperature and SG readings to the RAPT cloud every hour (as it is set up to do)  for nearly the last 24 hours so I reckon that it is a success!

Very pleased with that, although it took a little time to achieve.

great you have it working and sending telementry mate,  since moving your router  what signal strength are you getting?

moving along with this what do you think  of the new update on the rapt portal as far as the graph of the pill is concerned  from the old one

i like the new graph its alot cleaner and neater to the eye   then the original grapgh
 

[kmar92]

On 4/23/2022 at 4:13 AM, ozdevil said:

great you have it working and sending telementry mate,  since moving your router  what signal strength are you getting?

moving along with this what do you think  of the new update on the rapt portal as far as the graph of the pill is concerned  from the old one

i like the new graph its alot cleaner and neater to the eye   then the original grapgh
 

Sorry @ozdevil I missed your post. My signal strength is nothing to write home about, but it is working and updating right on cue every hour. Signal strength is -85dB / -75dB. Not sure on the plot on the portal as the current graph is the only plot that I have experienced so far. I do notice though that with my recent cold crash it did not represent on the graph once the temperature got below 2°, although it still reported the temperature correctly. It is a pain to set up with a SS kegmenter, but it does work if you persist, and it works consistently once it is reporting telemetry.

Overall I am pretty happy with the pill. I love tech gear so I am an easy target, but I do think that the RAPT pill is great.

Edited April 25, 2022 by kmar92

[kmar92]

Forgot to mention, it also survived a pressure ferment even though I am not happy about how the "O" rings look on the seal.

[ozdevil]

5 hours ago, kmar92 said:

Sorry @ozdevil I missed your post. My signal strength is nothing to write home about, but it is working and updating right on cue every hour. Signal strength is -85dB / -75dB. Not sure on the plot on the portal as the current graph is the only plot that I have experienced so far. I do notice though that with my recent cold crash it did not represent on the graph once the temperature got below 2°, although it still reported the temperature correctly. It is a pain to set up with a SS kegmenter, but it does work if you persist, and it works consistently once it is reporting telemetry.

Overall I am pretty happy with the pill. I love tech gear so I am an easy target, but I do think that the RAPT pill is great.

i was having a beer with Gash on Sunday ,  he also struggles with the pill in S/S fermenters. So he uses his tilts  in the S/S , but we came to the same conclusion when bluetooth is enabled which isnt far off if i understand from the developer.    that bluetooth  connected to a wifi device such as a tablet will act as a repeater to make things easier

i get your o-ring  thoughts, but i have never had issues with mine and i have 3 pills and all screw to the 2nd  oring albeit tight

but i am glad overall you think its great , specially for the price of this technology   , that will have both wifi and bluetooth 
capabilities

[kmar92]

On 4/26/2022 at 4:59 AM, ozdevil said:

i was having a beer with Gash on Sunday ,  he also struggles with the pill in S/S fermenters. So he uses his tilts  in the S/S , but we came to the same conclusion when bluetooth is enabled which isnt far off if i understand from the developer.    that bluetooth  connected to a wifi device such as a tablet will act as a repeater to make things easier

i get your o-ring  thoughts, but i have never had issues with mine and i have 3 pills and all screw to the 2nd  oring albeit tight

but i am glad overall you think its great , specially for the price of this technology   , that will have both wifi and bluetooth 
capabilities

@ozdevil it is working fine with the SS kegmenter, as I said the signal strength is not great (-85dB/-75dB) but it is reporting hourly and did not miss any reports over 6 days or so whilst in the kegmenter so to me that means that it is working fine. Signal strength in a plastic FV in the fridge seems to be running about -46dB/-41dB. I don't really think that bluetooth will improve the signal strength through the SS and fridge and in fact I would imagine it would be worse as in general bluetooth has less range than a wifi signal, it will improve battery life but I think that Kee quotes battery life of 1.5 years with wifi with hourly telemetry anyway.

Not that happy with the sealing of the pill, it obviously hasn't leaked any wort into it (it would be toast with any moisture ingress), but I do not know how well the 1st O-ring is doing as it is still visible under the end cap. I will leave well enough alone though until it needs charging or re-configuring, then I will remove the end and see if there is any moisture between the 2 O-rings. I guess that being under 15psi for 6 days with no leaking shows that it is sealing OK.

[ozdevil]

4 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

@ozdevil it is working fine with the SS kegmenter, as I said the signal strength is not great (-85dB/-75dB) but it is reporting hourly and did not miss any reports over 6 days or so whilst in the kegmenter so to me that means that it is working fine. Signal strength in a plastic FV in the fridge seems to be running about -46dB/-41dB. I don't really think that bluetooth will improve the signal strength through the SS and fridge and in fact I would imagine it would be worse as in general bluetooth has less range than a wifi signal, it will improve battery life but I think that Kee quotes battery life of 1.5 years with wifi with hourly telemetry anyway.

Not that happy with the sealing of the pill, it obviously hasn't leaked any wort into it (it would be toast with any moisture ingress), but I do not know how well the 1st O-ring is doing as it is still visible under the end cap. I will leave well enough alone though until it needs charging or re-configuring, then I will remove the end and see if there is any moisture between the 2 O-rings. I guess that being under 15psi for 6 days with no leaking shows that it is sealing OK.

when you say you cant get it past the 1st o-ring  are you sure you haven't cross threaded the 2 plastic threads...  As this is my concern and i am very good at cross threading stuff.
I'm not saying you have  it maybe a manuafacturing fault with the pill with yours

the 2 housings are cheap to buy anyway .

also  when you say 1st o ring    is it 

not being smart here but if its the bottom one being the 1st  you will see that rubber

if you cant get past the the top arrow i would be talking to kegland  for your own benifit

 

[kmar92]

@ozdevil bottom arrow is what I called the 1st O-ring. This O-ring is sort of 1/2 under the end cap which to my thinking is not ideal as O-rings work on axial sealing so I would prefer to have it completely under the end cap. The other O-ring is well up inside the end cap.