Amber ale

[Malter White]

@Mark the sipper Hi mate.

I was curious to know how you got on with the TC Family Secret Amber Ale. Did you mix it with amber malt and have you had a chance to taste it yet? I recently made this beer but added a tin of liquid light malt extract. I really enjoyed it but I'm considering using amber malt next time if you think it's worth trying.

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, MUZZY said:

I was curious to know how you got on with the TC Family Secret Amber Ale. Did you mix it with amber malt and have you had a chance to taste it yet? I recently made this beer but added a tin of liquid light malt extract. I really enjoyed it but I'm considering using amber malt next time if you think it's worth trying.

I have not done the Amber with the Amber.  But I have done a few with the Bootmaker and the Amber.  All of those were really nice brews.  For some ideas, that combo is in 2018 Coopers Vintage Ale, Parity Amber Ale, Coopers Celebration Ale and Cog Work IPA.

[Malter White]

9 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I have not done the Amber with the Amber.  But I have done a few with the Bootmaker and the Amber.  All of those were really nice brews.  For some ideas, that combo is in 2018 Coopers Vintage Ale, Parity Amber Ale, Coopers Celebration Ale and Cog Work IPA.

Thanks SOS.
It seems the Coopers recipe page is undergoing maintenance so I can't access your linking yet but I did have a couple of 2018 CVA pints at the pub a few years ago and quite liked it. It sounds like amber on amber is a goer.

[Mark the sipper]

10 hours ago, MUZZY said:

@Mark the sipper Hi mate.

I was curious to know how you got on with the TC Family Secret Amber Ale. Did you mix it with amber malt and have you had a chance to taste it yet? I recently made this beer but added a tin of liquid light malt extract. I really enjoyed it but I'm considering using amber malt next time if you think it's worth trying.

It was very nice. I will do again. Only 2 weeks old. The amber malt didn’t sweeten it at all. It’s very easy to drink and make. Probably better in a few more weeks. 

[Back2Brewing]

Put down a Thomas Coopers Family Secret Amber Ale today.

1 x Thomas Coopers Family Secret Amber Ale x 1.7kg

1 x LDME 505g

1 x Coopers BE3 1012g (LDME 500g , dextrose 300g, maltodextrin 200g) [Used BE3 as I did not have just another LDME 500g and I wanted the malt)

1 x 51g of LDME in the yeast starter

Both 505g LDME and 1012g BE3 were boiled and dissolved in 2.3ltrs of water, then cooled in sink and added to the FV. 

The room temp' Safale US-05 11g yeast was pitched in 1 ltr of sterilised water,  pre-cooled to room temp'. The yeast was rehydrated for 20 min at room temp (17 deg c). Then I added 51g of LDME and dissolved in the yeast rehydration water and let sit for a while. (About another 30 min.)

OG was 1.054 pre' yeast pitching. Coopers standard recipe says “Original Gravity (OG) will be 1038 +/- 2. FG: 1009-1012 “ (for 23 ltrs)

Total volume was 23 ltrs. Brew temperature regulation is set for ~21 deg C.

Initial Obs:  It looks, smells, and tastes great. I'm really glad I read these forums and resisted stuffing around with hop additions to this one. I think it will really stand on it's own as a great beer with the standard (or in my case close to the standard) Coopers recipe.  More in a while. 

 

[Back2Brewing]

Thomas Coopers Family Secret Amber Ale. (From last post recipe)

OG 1.054. FG 1.015. ABV ~5.12 % (not inc' 740ml bottle conditioning/carbonation.

Pic's were of ale straight from the FV as I was bottling and conducting final test. Beautiful colour, Malty Amber aroma, wonderful flavor, and exceptionally clear. First time using Safale US-05. It works as advertised!

[Kegory]

4 minutes ago, Back2Brewing said:

Thomas Coopers Family Secret Amber Ale. (From last post recipe)

OG 1.054. FG 1.015. ABV ~5.12 % (not inc' 740ml bottle conditioning/carbonation.

Pic's were of ale straight from the FV as I was bottling and conducting final test. Beautiful colour, Malty Amber aroma, wonderful flavor, and exceptionally clear. First time using Safale US-05. It works as advertised!

Looks great.

[Back2Brewing]

TS FC Amber Ale Dry Hopping Experiment

I know I said I'd wait, but I couldn't help myself and had all the ingredients 

I measured that (with a small air gap at top) I fill the PET amber 740ml bottles with 725ml of beer.

I am going to use multiple 1.5l PET spring water bottles to try some various dry hopping of the current FV of TC FS Amber ale. If I fill 4 x 1.5l spring water bottles (6l total) with the ale, I can try four different hops, or combination of hops, as well as still have ~17l of the orig' TC FS Amber Ale brew to bottle as per normal.

Everything I’ve read online says add between 1g-6g / per ltr depending on how hoppy you want it to be. (big difference....) 

I’ll do 2g per ltr (of each hop type) in each 1.5l bottle (3g total of each hop variety). Hopefully this will be enough to get a detectable aroma/flavour without being too much, and then I can decide which one I like and modify dosage up or down as required. 

I’ll add the different measured hops directly to the 1.5l sterilised bottles filled with amber ale, label them, and add them to the heated (21deg) bottle conditioning crate for 24 hours. A day later I then pour each bottle through a fine strainer into x2 PET amber 740ml bottles. End result will be 2 x 740ml’s of each of the four dry hop types of this amber ale. (Each final 740ml PET bottle has x 2 glucose lollies ea. for carbonation) 

Hop additions:

1. Mosaic (Marked with an “TCA 1”)

Initial taste test at bottling: The difference from 2 was a real mango aroma. More complex and fruity than 2, but not as tropical fruit aroma as 4.

2. Cascade (Marked with a "TCA 2”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Hard to pick from 1. but was slightly stronger flavor.

3. Amarillo (Marked with a "TCA 3”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and preferred in this beer. Sort of similar to 4, but a bit more toned down. Still has the more tropical pineapple aroma.  

4. Citra and Centennial (Marked with a "TCA 4”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and my preferred in this beer. Would be very nice in pale ale in limited amounts. Very tropical and lots of complimentary fruit flavors.

Initial Taste test observations at bottling conclusion:

Wow! Its easy to see why people enjoy beers dry hopped with the above hops. Also how combinations of these hops make up great IPA flavors and aromas.

My preference order (at this early stage) for dry hops in the TC FS is 4, 3, 1, then 2.

Looking forward to trying this again in 4 weeks after bottle conditioning, and with the beer chilled. It will be very interesting to have a x5 flight with the orig' amber and the other four different hopped test beers. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Back2Brewing

[Classic Brewing Co]

30 minutes ago, Back2Brewing said:

TS FC Amber Ale Dry Hopping Experiment

I know I said I'd wait, but I couldn't help myself and had all the ingredients 

I measured that (with a small air gap at top) I fill the PET amber 740ml bottles with 725ml of beer.

I am going to use multiple 1.5l PET spring water bottles to try some various dry hopping of the current FV of TC FS Amber ale. If I fill 4 x 1.5l spring water bottles (6l total) with the ale, I can try four different hops, or combination of hops, as well as still have ~17l of the orig' TC FS Amber Ale brew to bottle as per normal.

Everything I’ve read online says add between 1g-6g / per ltr depending on how hoppy you want it to be. (big difference....) 

I’ll do 2g per ltr (of each hop type) in each 1.5l bottle (3g total of each hop variety). Hopefully this will be enough to get a detectable aroma/flavour without being too much, and then I can decide which one I like and modify dosage up or down as required. 

I’ll add the different measured hops directly to the 1.5l sterilised bottles filled with amber ale, label them, and add them to the heated (21deg) bottle conditioning crate for 24 hours. A day later I then pour each bottle through a fine strainer into x2 PET amber 740ml bottles. End result will be 2 x 740ml’s of each of the four dry hop types of this amber ale. (Each final 740ml PET bottle has x 2 glucose lollies ea. for carbonation) 

Hop additions:

1. Mosaic (Marked with an “TCA 1”)

Initial taste test at bottling: The difference from 2 was a real mango aroma. More complex and fruity than 2, but not as tropical fruit aroma as 4.

2. Cascade (Marked with a "TCA 2”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Hard to pick from 1. but was slightly stronger flavor.

3. Amarillo (Marked with a "TCA 3”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and preferred in this beer. Sort of similar to 4, but a bit more toned down. Still has the more tropical pineapple aroma.  

4. Citra and Centennial (Marked with a "TCA 4”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and my preferred in this beer. Would be very nice in pale ale in limited amounts. Very tropical and lots of complimentary fruit flavors.

Initial Taste test observations at bottling conclusion:

Wow! Its easy to see why people enjoy beers dry hopped with the above hops. Also how combinations of these hops make up great IPA flavors and aromas.

My preference order (at this early stage) for dry hops in the TC FS is 4, 3, 1, then 2.

Looking forward to trying this again in 4 weeks after bottle conditioning, and with the beer chilled. It will be very interesting to have a x5 flight with the orig' amber and the other four different hopped test beers. 

Mate that sounds like a lot of work.

[Kegory]

43 minutes ago, Back2Brewing said:

TS FC Amber Ale Dry Hopping Experiment

I know I said I'd wait, but I couldn't help myself and had all the ingredients 

I measured that (with a small air gap at top) I fill the PET amber 740ml bottles with 725ml of beer.

I am going to use multiple 1.5l PET spring water bottles to try some various dry hopping of the current FV of TC FS Amber ale. If I fill 4 x 1.5l spring water bottles (6l total) with the ale, I can try four different hops, or combination of hops, as well as still have ~17l of the orig' TC FS Amber Ale brew to bottle as per normal.

Everything I’ve read online says add between 1g-6g / per ltr depending on how hoppy you want it to be. (big difference....) 

I’ll do 2g per ltr (of each hop type) in each 1.5l bottle (3g total of each hop variety). Hopefully this will be enough to get a detectable aroma/flavour without being too much, and then I can decide which one I like and modify dosage up or down as required. 

I’ll add the different measured hops directly to the 1.5l sterilised bottles filled with amber ale, label them, and add them to the heated (21deg) bottle conditioning crate for 24 hours. A day later I then pour each bottle through a fine strainer into x2 PET amber 740ml bottles. End result will be 2 x 740ml’s of each of the four dry hop types of this amber ale. (Each final 740ml PET bottle has x 2 glucose lollies ea. for carbonation) 

Hop additions:

1. Mosaic (Marked with an “TCA 1”)

Initial taste test at bottling: The difference from 2 was a real mango aroma. More complex and fruity than 2, but not as tropical fruit aroma as 4.

2. Cascade (Marked with a "TCA 2”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Hard to pick from 1. but was slightly stronger flavor.

3. Amarillo (Marked with a "TCA 3”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and preferred in this beer. Sort of similar to 4, but a bit more toned down. Still has the more tropical pineapple aroma.  

4. Citra and Centennial (Marked with a "TCA 4”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and my preferred in this beer. Would be very nice in pale ale in limited amounts. Very tropical and lots of complimentary fruit flavors.

Initial Taste test observations at bottling conclusion:

Wow! Its easy to see why people enjoy beers dry hopped with the above hops. Also how combinations of these hops make up great IPA flavors and aromas.

My preference order (at this early stage) for dry hops in the TC FS is 4, 3, 1, then 2.

Looking forward to trying this again in 4 weeks after bottle conditioning, and with the beer chilled. It will be very interesting to have a x5 flight with the orig' amber and the other four different hopped test beers. 

That's a very interesting exbeeriment. You don't seem worried about the possibility of oxidisation with the multiple transfers from vessel to vessel. Could you explain that please?

[Back2Brewing]

13 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Mate that sounds like a lot of work.

No, not really. Writing it was more work

[Back2Brewing]

13 hours ago, Kegory said:

That's a very interesting exbeeriment. You don't seem worried about the possibility of oxidisation with the multiple transfers from vessel to vessel. Could you explain that please?

Great question! As a novice just getting back into brewing after a long break, I did do some reading on this topic a while ago. Hence why I made an internal FV magnetic drop dry hopper for when I get around to wanting to dry hop a whole brew batch. This way I don't have to open the fermenter during dry hopping. From other reading I found that while the impact of additional oxygen at late or post fermentation is undesirable, without Co2 purging and potential different transfer lines, it is inevitable to varying degrees when doing basic home brewing. Some findings say it may be reduced by attention to pouring techniques during the transfers to reduce mixing/agitation/splashing where possible, however one reference stated "It is just not something we worry about or can control to an exacting degree." (in a basic home brew setup)

Additionally, I was satisfied to risk this as these small samples are intended to be tasted/compared while they are still relatively young, 2-4 weeks old, and not aged more to where the effect of oxidisation would (from reading) be likely worse. 

It was the only way I could come up with to determine which dry hop flavors I may prefer to use later in a full brew batch without necessarily making four full brew batches, some of which I may not like. 

I'm always open to learn from others helpful advice and experiences if it saves wasting beer.

[Classic Brewing Co]

15 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Mate that sounds like a lot of work.

I meant there are much easier ways to discover hops, just experiment with different methods & different hops.

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I meant there are much easier ways to discover hops, just experiment with different methods & different hops.

That is an experiment with different hops, and a very different method, I might add.

[Kegory]

2 hours ago, Back2Brewing said:

Great question! As a novice just getting back into brewing after a long break, I did do some reading on this topic a while ago. Hence why I made an internal FV magnetic drop dry hopper for when I get around to wanting to dry hop a whole brew batch. This way I don't have to open the fermenter during dry hopping. From other reading I found that while the impact of additional oxygen at late or post fermentation is undesirable, without Co2 purging and potential different transfer lines, it is inevitable to varying degrees when doing basic home brewing. Some findings say it may be reduced by attention to pouring techniques during the transfers to reduce mixing/agitation/splashing where possible, however one reference stated "It is just not something we worry about or can control to an exacting degree." (in a basic home brew setup)

Additionally, I was satisfied to risk this as these small samples are intended to be tasted/compared while they are still relatively young, 2-4 weeks old, and not aged more to where the effect of oxidisation would (from reading) be likely worse. 

It was the only way I could come up with to determine which dry hop flavors I may prefer to use later in a full brew batch without necessarily making four full brew batches, some of which I may not like. 

I'm always open to learn from others helpful advice and experiences if it saves wasting beer.

Thanks @Back2Brewing. That's interesting. I like to run little exbeeriments too. I haven't got to that level yet but that looks like a good one to consider for the future. Please keep updating your methods and results. Have you transferred them to the 740ml bottles yet? How did that go with the strainer? Any tips for a novice?

I read an article on a Brulosophy exbeeriment a few days ago on the perceived effects of oxidization on cold keg conditioned vs warm keg conditioned beer. One of the comments caught my attention: they said that the effects of oxidization become more apparent over time and suggested that the exbeeriment could have been run over a longer interval, say six months, to properly determine the difference.

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, Kegory said:

Thanks @Back2Brewing. That's interesting. I like to run little exbeeriments too. I haven't got to that level yet but that looks like a good one to consider for the future. Please keep updating your methods and results. Have you transferred them to the 740ml bottles yet? How did that go with the strainer? Any tips for a novice?

I read an article on a Brulosophy exbeeriment a few days ago on the perceived effects of oxidization on cold keg conditioned vs warm keg conditioned beer. One of the comments caught my attention: they said that the effects of oxidization become more apparent over time and suggested that the exbeeriment could have been run over a longer interval, say six months, to properly determine the difference.

Reading more closely I see you have already transferred to the 740ml bottles. How did that go @Back2Brewing? I assume you used a funnel as well as the strainer, is that correct?

[Back2Brewing]

@Kegory YW. Re' oxidisation comment, I've tasted year old beers that had been stored warm and don't want to do that again. As mentioned, just a short bottle conditioning period on these to sample the different hops with hopefully the least wastage. If any.  From my readings, these types of dry hopped beers are best enjoyed young while still fresh anyway. The only beer I'd have longer than 6 months are the higher ABV's like stouts or porters. I'll be happy to advise the outcome of the trial in a couple of weeks.

Re' transfer to the 740's, yes I had a fine S/S mesh strainer in the funnel and had the funnel tilted so inside the bottle it touched the wall. Poured very slowly with the bottle tilted as well, so it would not splash/bubble, and so it ran down the side of the inside wall of the bottle. As soon as you near the bottom of hopped bottle, the hop material clogs the mesh filter pretty much straight away and little to nothing gets through. Give up then

@Classic Brewing Co Thank you. I previously tried (on a red ale) putting a couple (literally) of different hop pellets into a few 330ml PET bottles and filling from the fermenter when bottling the rest of the brew as normal. I let these sit for a 24 hours before chilling for a few hours and then filtered the contents of each into different glasses. The different hop flavor and aromas were there for sure, and it's one less transfer hassle. This time I wanted to try the samples of additional hopped beer after they are better settled/cleared and at least slightly carbonated. It may only make a small difference to any final preference decision but I shall know soon. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

28 minutes ago, Back2Brewing said:

@Kegory YW. Re' oxidisation comment, I've tasted year old beers that had been stored warm and don't want to do that again. As mentioned, just a short bottle conditioning period on these to sample the different hops with hopefully the least wastage. If any.  From my readings, these types of dry hopped beers are best enjoyed young while still fresh anyway. The only beer I'd have longer than 6 months are the higher ABV's like stouts or porters. I'll be happy to advise the outcome of the trial in a couple of weeks.

Re' transfer to the 740's, yes I had a fine S/S mesh strainer in the funnel and had the funnel tilted so inside the bottle it touched the wall. Poured very slowly with the bottle tilted as well, so it would not splash/bubble, and so it ran down the side of the inside wall of the bottle. As soon as you near the bottom of hopped bottle, the hop material clogs the mesh filter pretty much straight away and little to nothing gets through. Give up then

@Classic Brewing Co Thank you. I previously tried (on a red ale) putting a couple (literally) of different hop pellets into a few 330ml PET bottles and filling from the fermenter when bottling the rest of the brew as normal. I let these sit for a 24 hours before chilling for a few hours and then filtered the contents of each into different glasses. The different hop flavor and aromas were there for sure, and it's one less transfer hassle. This time I wanted to try the samples of additional hopped beer after they are better settled/cleared and at least slightly carbonated. It may only make a small difference to any final preference decision but I shall know soon. 

Well, everyone to their own but I have been brewing for over 40 years & have never done anything like that.

I have boiled hops, steeped hops & dry hopped. All I do these days is add a minimum of 50gms of hops tied in a muslin cloth bag & chucked it in the fermenter 4 days before kegging.

The aroma & flavour stays with the brew until the last pour.

I do AG brews these days so the above mainly applies to the occasional K & K brew.

I have my favourite hops, but it all depends on the style I am brewing.

[Kegory]

I stumbled upon this interesting article on Dry Hoping. It discusses a few different methods including post-fermentation dry hoping and double dry hoping.

[jennyss]

Thanks @Kegory, It is a very interesting article on dry hopping. I'm encouraged to keep experimenting with adding different hop pellets at different times during my  extract fermentation and post fermentation but before bottling. I've got an order coming from Coopers including lots of hops - I'm excited!

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, jennyss said:

Thanks @Kegory, It is a very interesting article on dry hopping. I'm encouraged to keep experimenting with adding different hop pellets at different times during my  extract fermentation and post fermentation but before bottling. I've got an order coming from Coopers including lots of hops - I'm excited!

Oh, yeah, I get pretty excited about hops, too.

As Benjamin Franklin once said, "beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

[Back2Brewing]

The TC FS Amber Ale I bottled on 6 Aug 2023. Full of flavour and a really delicious beer. I totally agree with what others have said in that it really does not need any mod’s.

 

 

 

[Kegory]

6 hours ago, Back2Brewing said:

The TC FS Amber Ale I bottled on 6 Aug 2023. Full of flavour and a really delicious beer. I totally agree with what others have said in that it really does not need any mod’s.

 

 

 

Looking forward to the reports on the ones that did have the dry hops.

[Back2Brewing]

19 hours ago, Kegory said:

Looking forward to the reports on the ones that did have the dry hops.

Here it is. 

 

Results of my dry hopping experiment.  (See details in an earlier post.)

1. Mosaic (Marked with an “TCA 1”)

Initial taste test at bottling: The difference from 2 was a real mango aroma. More complex and fruity than 2, but not as high  tropical fruit aroma as 4.

28 Aug 2023. Taste test. Well carbonated. Not bad at all. Easily the best out of all four variations with this extract’s base hops.  Wife likes it. Definitely more complimentary hops addition than any of the others. Fruity but not over the top. No bad aftertaste. Maybe a slightly more bitter end than compared to  the “ vanilla” Amber.  Maybe a bit more like a dark or red IPA flavour, but does not "suck your face in" with their extra high IBU's.  Given I’m a bit over IPA’s, this could bring me back. I’d even consider making a whole batch and drop the dry hop amount to about 25-30gm. (This experiment was equiv’ to about 46gm in 23 ltrs.)  But that’s just personal taste. I think those that like a toned down IPA flavor would enjoy this. My wife is not a beer drinker anymore and she likes it so… She said, “It's a full flavoured slightly fruity beer, not too bitter, and does not leave any lingering “yucky” flavours in your mouth.  It would be great with spicy fried chicken wings or the like.” 

2. Cascade (Marked with a "TCA 2”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Hard to pick from 1. but was slightly stronger flavor.

22 Aug 22. Taste test . Well carbonated. Not good flavor. It really does not go with the primary Amber hop/flavour. Really left an odd bitter and unpleasant flavor in my mouth for a long time. Would never do it again in an amber. Will tip out the other bottle sample as the flavor is just not worth pursuing.

3. Amarillo (Marked with a "TCA 3”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and preferred in this beer. Sort of similar to 4, but a bit more toned down. Still has more tropical pineapple aroma.  

23 Aug 2023. 1815 hrs. Taste Test. Not bad and easily the best taste test of this hop experiment so far. It’s has a tropical fruit aroma, and tastes a bit like a lighter IPA with out the bitterness. i. e. not a face puncher. No horrible aftertaste either. 

4. Citra and Centennial (Marked with a "TCA 4”)

Initial taste test at bottling: Very nice and my preferred in this beer. Would be very nice in pale ale in limited amounts. Very tropical and lots of complimentary fruit flavors.

20 Aug 22. Taste test. Well carbonated. Could definitely smell and taste the tropical notes, but it really did not go with the base amber hops and flavor. Would not do again. 

 

Initial Taste test at bottling conclusion:

Wow! Its easy to see why people enjoy beers dry hopped with the above hops. Also how combinations of these may make up great IPA flavours and aromas.

My initial preference order for dry hops in the amber was 4, 3, 1, then 2.

I’m looking forward to trying this again in 2-4 weeks after bottle conditioning, and with the beer chilled. It will be very interesting to have a x5 flight with the orig' amber and the other four hopped up test beers....

*****

28 Aug 2023. In the end after some bottle conditioning, the only hops I found worked individually with the initial TC FS Amber Ale hop were Amarillo (3) and Mosaic (1). After the tastings, for us, it was Mosaic for the win . 

Again though, I encourage you to try the Coopers recipe for this beer first as it is very good. 

*****

[Back2Brewing]

I really enjoy this TC FS Amber Ale, so put we put down another one yesterday. Close to the last recipe, but with a bit more malt. It smells amazing. 

Ingredients:

1 x Thomas Coopers Family Secret Amber Ale x 1.7kg.

1 x 1.4kg of Coopers Liquid Light Malt Extract.

1 x 520g of Coopers BE3. (LDME 250g , Dextrose 150g, maltodextrin 100g... 'ish.)

1 x 5g of yeast nutrient.

1 x Safale US-05 11g yeast.

All mixed in the fermenter.

OG was 1.054 pre yeast pitching. Coopers standard recipe says “Original Gravity (OG) will be 1038 +/- 2. FG: 1009-1012 “ (for 23 ltrs)

Total volume made was 23 ltrs.

Brew temp’ regulation was set for ~20.2deg C.