Barleywine or Russian Imperial Stout

[John E Miller]

I want to brew a big beer (all grain) to age for a year or two. 

I am a pretty young brewer; have only been on the AG path for 8 months, with 9 AG beers made. 

Do any more experienced brewers have any words of advice? I'm wondering whether I should brew a few more basic beers before venturing into something like a barleywine, or whether I am overthinking it and it's not that much harder. 

Anyone suggest one style over the other, or have another one to recommend? 

[ben 10]

Umm, I like them both, I think a barleywine may age better?

I aged a RIS and it was better young.

Both were put onto yeast cakes and finished quite low, like 1.010 which was amazing

Quote

Recipe: Barleywine
Style: American Barleywine

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------

Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 L   
Estimated OG: 1.094 SG
Estimated Color: 28.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 83.7 IBUs

Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume        
8.00 kg          Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)       Grain         1          96.4 %        5.22 L        
0.30 kg          Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC)                Grain         2          3.6 %         0.20 L        
50.00 g          Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min                Hop           3          67.0 IBUs     -             
50.00 g          Chinook [13.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20.0 min    Hop           4          16.7 IBUs     -             

Quote

Recipe: RIS
Style: Imperial Stout

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------

Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 L   
Estimated OG: 1.120 SG
Estimated Color: 79.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 122.8 IBUs


Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume        
5.02 g           Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash)                  Water Agent   1          -             -             
3.43 g           Calcium Chloride (Mash)                          Water Agent   2          -             -             
1.03 g           Salt (Mash)                                      Water Agent   3          -             -             
0.73 g           Chalk (Mash)                                     Water Agent   4          -             -             
0.56 g           Baking Soda (Mash)                               Water Agent   5          -             -             
5.00 kg          Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC)                 Grain         6          41.5 %        3.26 L        
2.00 kg          Brown Malt (128.1 EBC)                           Grain         7          16.6 %        1.30 L        
1.50 kg          Smoked Malt (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC)                Grain         8          12.4 %        0.98 L        
1.00 kg          Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC)                   Grain         9          8.3 %         0.65 L        
0.75 kg          Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC)                           Grain         10         6.2 %         0.49 L        
0.20 kg          Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC)                Grain         11         1.7 %         0.13 L        
0.20 kg          Chocolate Rye (Weyermann) (482.6 EBC)            Grain         12         1.7 %         0.13 L        
0.20 kg          Light Crystal (45.0 EBC)                         Grain         13         1.7 %         0.13 L        
0.10 kg          Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1000.8 EBC)     Grain         14         0.8 %         0.07 L        
0.10 kg          Roasted Malt (Joe White) (1199.7 EBC)            Grain         15         0.8 %         0.07 L        
50.00 g          Chinook [13.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min                Hop           16         49.9 IBUs     -             
40.00 g          Topaz [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min                  Hop           17         51.4 IBUs     -             
5.00 ml          Mosaic BLUE Resin [62.60 %] (CO2 Extract) - Boil Hop           18         21.5 IBUs     -             
1.00 kg          Sugar, Table (Sucrose) [Primary] (2.0 EBC)       Sugar         19         8.3 %         0.63 L        
1.0 pkg          Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) [124.21 ml]        Yeast         20         -             -             


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

8 hours ago, John E Miller said:

I want to brew a big beer (all grain) to age for a year or two. 

I am a pretty young brewer; have only been on the AG path for 8 months, with 9 AG beers made. 

Do any more experienced brewers have any words of advice? I'm wondering whether I should brew a few more basic beers before venturing into something like a barleywine, or whether I am overthinking it and it's not that much harder. 

Anyone suggest one style over the other, or have another one to recommend? 

Depends what beers you like mate. RIS. Barleywine. Belgian beers. No different from making the others just make sure you pitch more yeast for the bigger brew and if you bottle then be careful with your priming rates. Generally carbonation will increase over time. I find they get the best about 6 to 9 months in when the alcohol taste mellows with the malt. But everyone's tastes is different. 

[John E Miller]

@Green Blob cheers for that. I see you used Barret Burston pale malt in your barleywine: do you find that to be a decent base malt compared with something like Maris Otter? I would be inclined to do an English barleywine, and maybe a SMaSH at that, so maybe a British malt would be more appropriate? I do like to save a penny when it can be spared though. 

[John E Miller]

22 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Depends what beers you like mate. RIS. Barleywine. Belgian beers. No different from making the others just make sure you pitch more yeast for the bigger brew and if you bottle then be careful with your priming rates. Generally carbonation will increase over time. I find they get the best about 6 to 9 months in when the alcohol taste mellows with the malt. But everyone's tastes is different. 

Thanks for alleviating my concerns. 

I have never really tried any of these big beers. I have tried Bridge Road Brewers' Imperial Belgian Black IPA, at 10%, and that was to die for. I am leaning towards brewing a barleywine now.

Edited March 13, 2021 by John E Miller

[ben 10]

10 hours ago, John E Miller said:

@Green Blob cheers for that. I see you used Barret Burston pale malt in your barleywine:

I rarely use Maris, always having Munich on hand if I want maltier I'll throw some of that in.
Having said that I like the Aussie malts and use them due to price and we bulk buy too and do that with a local brewery and he uses the Aussie malts.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

17 hours ago, John E Miller said:

Thanks for alleviating my concerns. 

I have never really tried any of these big beers. I have tried Bridge Road Brewers' Imperial Belgian Black IPA, at 10%, and that was to die for. I am leaning towards brewing a barleywine now.

Nice. Try one every month or so to see how they develop. Then the next time you make one you will know the perfect time for your taste buds.

[John E Miller]

On 3/14/2021 at 6:45 AM, Green Blob said:

I rarely use Maris, always having Munich on hand if I want maltier I'll throw some of that in.
Having said that I like the Aussie malts and use them due to price and we bulk buy too and do that with a local brewery and he uses the Aussie malts.

Interesting. I will have to do a couple of SMaSHes someday to compare the grains. 

[John E Miller]

I want to try and keep the barleywine English, but my lhbs has Nugget hops going cheap at the moment. I figure for a single 60min bittering addition the flavour won't really come through anyway right?

[The Captain!!]

1 hour ago, John E Miller said:

I want to try and keep the barleywine English, but my lhbs has Nugget hops going cheap at the moment. I figure for a single 60min bittering addition the flavour won't really come through anyway right?

Most of that flavour will disappear mate so i say go for it!

[ben 10]

8 hours ago, John E Miller said:

I want to try and keep the barleywine English, but my lhbs has Nugget hops going cheap at the moment. I figure for a single 60min bittering addition the flavour won't really come through anyway right?

as @The Captain!! said GO FOR IT

[John E Miller]

I've got 4.75 kg Maris Otter, 250g medium crystal, 50g Nugget hops, and Nottingham yeast, aiming for 8-10 litres at 10-12% ABV. 

(I won't use all those hops I'm thinking)

Planning an overnight mash and boil first thing tomorrow. 

I'll see what comes out!

Edited March 15, 2021 by John E Miller

[John E Miller]

The Nugget hops are 13.7% AA, I boiled 28g for 60 min in 10L of wort. Can anyone help me work out what IBU that would give me? 

[The Captain!!]

Give or take BeerSmith tell me 58 at 1.100og in 10l

[John E Miller]

23 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

Give or take BeerSmith tell me 58 at 1.100og in 10l

Good, that's what I was hoping for. I have a formula I follow that usually works to calculate IBU, but I'm getting confused. 

[The Captain!!]

1 minute ago, John E Miller said:

Good, that's what I was hoping for. I have a formula I follow that usually works to calculate IBU, but I'm getting confused. 

I’d strongly suggest brewing software. I love BeerSmith but there’s plenty of them out there. 

[John E Miller]

1 minute ago, The Captain!! said:

I’d strongly suggest brewing software. I love BeerSmith but there’s plenty of them out there. 

I'll look into it, cheers

[The Captain!!]

[John E Miller]

My barleywine appears to have fully attenuated from 1.112 to 1.012.

I am trying to decide whether I should do any secondary fermentation. All the accounts I can find online say they are racking to secondary, but they probably do it for all their beers, whereas I have decided it is an innecessary step in general. 

[ben 10]

1 hour ago, John E Miller said:

I am trying to decide whether I should do any secondary fermentation.

Little confusing terminology there.
Secondary fermentation is different to racking off the yeast. Secondary fermentation occurs in bottles with priming sugar to carbonate.
Definitely no need to rack off the yeast to another vessel.
Well done on the attenuation, that will be a boozy one!

[John E Miller]

1 hour ago, Green Blob said:

Little confusing terminology there.
Secondary fermentation is different to racking off the yeast. Secondary fermentation occurs in bottles with priming sugar to carbonate.
Definitely no need to rack off the yeast to another vessel.
Well done on the attenuation, that will be a boozy one!

Yes, I'm very happy with the attenuation. I was surprised by how sweet it still tastes though, but I guess 22 gravity points is still a fair bit of sugar. 

The Americans tend to talk about secondary fermenters a lot, usually referring to another carboy. It is a bit of a misnomer.

That makes it easier to avoid that step. Would you recommend letting it sit on the yeast for a bit longer? I am eager to bottle, but I don't want to rush it. 

 

[ben 10]

2 hours ago, John E Miller said:

but I guess 22 gravity points is still a fair bit of sugar. 

 

5 hours ago, John E Miller said:

1.012.

How long has it been down for?
Can you warm it up and make sure it is finished.

[John E Miller]

1 hour ago, Green Blob said:

 

How long has it been down for?
Can you warm it up and make sure it is finished.

It has been at 1.022 for a few days, and I'm planning on leaving it another few days at 22° which is where it is just sitting ambient. 

I already warmed it way up to the high 20s when I thought it was stuck.

[John E Miller]

Sorry, I meant to say the FG is 1.022, not 1.012.

[John E Miller]

On 3/14/2021 at 6:45 AM, interceptor said:

On 3/13/2021 at 8:38 PM, John E Miller said:

 

I rarely use Maris, always having Munich on hand if I want maltier I'll throw some of that in.

I don't know if I have already asked you this, but what proportions? If I want to imitate Maris Otter would I use something like 90% BB pale malt and 10% Munich?