Cerveza Toucan questions

[grogdog]

Gday Im putting on a mexican 2 can,

21 liters, 50 gram citra hop tea, and 150g citra dry hop. MJ54 lager yeast that ferments at ale temps. 10g pack.

Is that enough yeast just to sprinkle on top of the wort or should i rehydrate or jump it up? 1050 OG apparently.

 

Thanks for any inputs cheers

[Norris!]

I would rehydrate it.

 

[ben 10]

start warm, then drop to ferment temp/ not ideal but will work.

 

edit : just read ale temps.... what @Norris! said

[grogdog]

Thanks fellas. 

This is mangrove jacks rehydration instructions:

For lager yeasts, rehydrate using 100 ml (3.4 US fl oz) of 20–25°C (68–77°F) water. Stir gently into a yeast cream for between 8-12 minutes then add yeast cream directly to wort.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Sounds about right for rehydration. I'd do it at the warmer end of the range. 

[grogdog]

Thanks Otto man. Mate could you tell me when you take your first gravity reading after how many days usually? and when do you check for FG? (I think i need to limit how many times ive been taking the lid off the fermenter.

Also when do you dry hop and for how long?

Thank you in advance.

[Otto Von Blotto]

It depends on the brew. With ales I normally check the SG after it's been in the fermenter for 3 days and leave the sample on my keg fridge with the hydrometer in it so I can get an idea of what the FG should be, then I test FG after 7 and 9 days. These two readings are usually the same as each other and the earlier sample left to sit. I dry hop after fermentation is pretty much finished, so generally when I take the first FG sample.

With this brew being fermented at ale temps, that's the timeline I'd use.

Does your fermenter not have a tap? You shouldn't need to open the lid to test the SG. 

[grogdog]

Ah thanks man, i will do the same and leave the sample to ferment at eye level.

Ok cool, ill dry hop at FG. How long do you leave it in the FV before kegging, the usual 2 weeks in total?

Yeah I have a coopers FV with a tap and another bucket without a tap. Depends on which one i use, but i use a wine sampler thingo to draw up the sample. Typically siphon into the coopers FV to get it off the cake and bulk prime, but now i have a couple kegs.

[Otto Von Blotto]

My ale timeline is ferment temp for 3-4 days, then allow to rise 3 degrees. It sits there until 9-10 days and is then crashed to zero where it sits for a week, and is then kegged. The dry hop just stays in until it's kegged so about 8-10 days all up. It doesn't need that long but it's easier to leave them in than take them out.

[grogdog]

cool ill do that, cheers otto. Is that temp rise for diacetyl? and the crash is for clearing? Ill probably also use some some gelatin, at which stage in the process would one add gelatin?

[grogdog]

Ok, so i know to do the hop steep at 80c for about 20 minutes, but do i need to add malt or just plain water? And is there a ratio of water/hop? fark sorry for all the questions.

[Otto Von Blotto]

The temp rise is just to ensure it finishes off and speed up the cleaning up process, not really for diacetyl in ales. I do a diacetyl rest in lagers but they're fermented at 10 degrees. 

The main reason I cold crash is to drop out yeast. If dry hops are loose it also drops them out. If you use gelatine it would go in during the cold crash a few days before it's bottled or kegged. However, I think there are superior products available that do the same if not a better job. 

With hop steeps I'd probably add some malt to it, 100g DME per litre is a good ratio.  Doesn't really matter how much water you use but a litre or two would be fine.

[grogdog]

Got the brew on today and ah yeah few mistakes..

For starters i didnt remove the label from the can, so after soaking the tins the labels became soft and bits fell in the goo so had to dig them out of the FV 

So i used the garden hose to fill the FV and it made an insane amount of foam and was hard to tell where it was filled to, so after adding the 1L hop tea it miraculously jumped from 18L to 21.5L And the beer is now 23L i guess from the foam dropping.

So the wort temp was 28.5C pretty warm here atm, so i put it in the fridge to cool and went to the shops for an hour or 2, came home and its still on 28C after some faffing i realise i have the fridge plugged into the heating output of the controller..

I needed to sleep before work so i pitched anyway at 28C, shes down to 20C currently and set at 17.5C

Anyways, thanks Otto for your help much appreciated, and hopefully i can get away with this one and get a beer.

[Smashed Crabs]

I did a 2can recently (forgive my half cut brewing hand writing) didn't note but I believe those hop additions was @ 15 mins. This to date has been one of my better brews @ 23 litres and $27 odd dollars was pretty cost effective for a kit brew that was on the higher ABV side. A very good brew that's had great reviews from people who have tried it.

[grogdog]

Nice one crabby. I gleaned this one from member WP's aka Phil.

Quote

Now don't flame me for a Corona (Cerveceria). I was given a 1.7 litre can of LME of Coopers Cerveceria and as I rarely if ever drink a Corona (its been years, and they ran out of decent beer so I was desperate!) I wasn't keen to make a 23 litre brew of it, so I decided to amp it up a bit and the result is sensational.

 

So I used the hopped liquid malt from the Coopers can, put it in a 10 litre FV added @ 8 litres of filtered water and I steeped 25gms of fresh Citra hops in approx. 2 lites added to the brew, pitched the yeast and brought the temp down to 12 degrees and keep it around12 to 14 degrees for 2 weeks.

 

I guess it was about one and a half strength Corona recipe. The usual recipe calls for the 1.7 litre can of LME plus 1 kg of DME to 23 litres of water. I used 1.7 in 10 litres

 

Its been stored for a month now and last night I had my first one.

 

I poured it into a long lager glass and the colour was much darker than a Corona, more like a standard mid colour lager, the head was perfection and it was crystal clear I mean like a store bought Peroni clear! I'm not sure why so clear, maybe because it has been sitting in the fridge for 10 days, maybe because no dry malt being used, but anyway it was soo clear.

 

And the taste - absolutely superb and a bit unique. It was as favoursome as a Tim Knappstien Reserve Lager (which is loaded with Nelson Sauvin Hops), one of my favourite beers. The citra hops I used were big on the nose and the palate, it had a clean professional brewery taste as good as any boutique beer I've had. Zero odd home brewing flavours just a perfect beer. In short I was really shocked and really impressed.

 

So I just thought I would share this with my fellow brewers as it was super easy to make and the result was a great tasting lager. Just in case a well meaning friend gave you the Corona pack, not all is lost, just some of the quantity.

 

Cheers,

 

Phil

 

[Smashed Crabs]

I found a little home brew twang when I brewed mine... but I had just moved to All Grain so was able to notice the difference. But it was still a cracker of a beer, wasn't the twang of say brewing a kit n kilo of Dex but the one of a pre hopped kit.  

[Titan]

11 hours ago, grogdog said:

So i used the garden hose to fill the FV

Not a good Idea. Where was the hose? Outside in the sun? These are not food grade hoses and at best you may get some off flavors coming through in the beer, at worst the yeast may suffer or even die before they get going. If your going to use a garden hose you need to run them a while to clear the residual water out of them.  I know its a pain transporting 5l jugs to fill the FV but at least you know the water is fresh.

[grogdog]

Yeah i ran I ran the hose to clear it out first and tasted it so that it wasn't 'hosey' cheers Titan. Usually i prefill from the bathroom tap and treat with sodium metabi to remove chlorine before i brew.

[Otto Von Blotto]

You'll get a beer. In future though, pitch the yeast anyway even if it is in the high 20s. You are better off doing this than leaving the wort exposed to airborne contaminants. 

If you can, pre chill 10 litres of water and use this, or as much as needed, to bring the temp down prior to pitching. 

[Norris!]

Or freeze a block or 2 of ice to add to the hot wort after flameout. Well not or, I use both chilled water and ice blocks. My wort gets to chilling temp fairly quick with these 2 methods

[grogdog]

2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

You'll get a beer. In future though, pitch the yeast anyway even if it is in the high 20s. You are better off doing this than leaving the wort exposed to airborne contaminants. 

If you can, pre chill 10 litres of water and use this, or as much as needed, to bring the temp down prior to pitching. 

Ah this info i needed yesterday 'in real time' cheers otto ill pitch @28 in future if need be. Running by the seat of my pants lately and not pre-organised, only myself to blame.

@Norris! cheers mate ill be better prepared next time with some chilled water. So just sanitised plastic bottle of tap water? 

Fermentation hasn't kicked off yet so i think ill just add the 2 packs of kit yeast.. really dont want to waste anymore citra on a bad beer so ill ride it out for a while, fingers crossed.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Leave it go a bit longer before you think about adding more yeast, 18/19 hours or whatever it's been isn't time to be panicking about fermentation not starting yet. They often take about 24 hours or so to show visible foaming. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. If it gets out to 50+ hours then it would be cause for concern. 

[Norris!]

I use the tap water just chilled in a sanitize bottle and same with the ice blocks, I save the ice cream tubs and clean them and sanitize then fill with water and freeze. I do 10l boils and use 2 of those ice cream blocks to drop the temp from 80c+ to 24 to 20c quick, and then if it needs some more cooling, I add the cold water from the fridge with ice mixed with it until I get the temp I need, I am happy to pitch at 24c and down and then toss into the fridge.

If you are worried about choloramines then treat the water first then chill and freeze.

Cheers

Norris

[Norris!]

I would also pitch at 28c if you had a fermentation fridge to pop it into, by the time fermentation starts or shows signs the temp will have dropped to a reasonable level, as Otto said

[grogdog]

@Norris! thats awesome cheers for that mate. So those 2 odd liter blocks melt fully in 10L 80C wort and bring you down to around 24C? one could just replicate this every time