Phil_McGlass Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Well my experience with bleach has been problem free. It's one teaspoon in a gallon. It's effective because the vinegar adjusts the pH. We all reach different conclusions based on our own experience in our particular set of circumstances. I know for sure that this bleach solution kills things that Starsan doesn't, in my home. There's also a link in the article i posted above to a podcast in which the guy who created Starsan says this. Not everybody has these contamination problems with Starsan, but some people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Yes, and being free chlorine it's likely that most of it evaporates away before it does any damage. I will use it if I end up with a really persistent infection which so far I've avoided but otherwise I keep my equipment away from chlorine. Definitely agree that it kills more than starsan, which is effective against bacteria but perhaps not against wild yeasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Iodine based sterilisers kill everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: If you're not careful you might end up with the exact same problem as the others have had, as a result of using bleach. I haven't had any issues with Starsan not killing things as far as I know (no infected batches/off flavors) but I wouldn't mind trying iodophor. Just as effective as bleach from what I have read without the risk of chlorine causing problems....... 9 hours ago, Phil_McGlass said: Well my experience with bleach has been problem free. It's one teaspoon in a gallon...... Good points right there. I haven't used bleach in my FV 'yet', but I can see the day my brewing process confidence might allow it. Now, every one of my bottles gets the 'PB2' overnight anti haze treatment, which is a pet capful of non scented bleach and cold water. When I rinse them out in hot water next day and air dry them, they might sit days before their pre fill process begins. No chlorine residue, no problems. An FV could be treated the same way without causing any problem for US-05. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Yep, allowing it to dry out would negate any potential risk and you won't have issues from it. But it's not just beers fermented with US-05 that are at risk of chlorophenols being produced by residual chlorine, it's any beer. If there's enough of it left behind in the equipment which then mixes with the brew then it will likely result in problems, hence the best thing to do is either rinse it thoroughly or let it dry completely before filling with wort or beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 hours ago, Phil_McGlass said: Why should it only happen with US05 though? I dunno, except for the slow lag time thing. I agree. If I ever do try it again, I will pitch it on the warm side, maybe 23C, and keep it there until signs of condensation appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said: I agree. If I ever do try it again, I will pitch it on the warm side, maybe 23C, and keep it there until signs of condensation appear. Christina, I think there might be something in pitching US-05 slurry because every one of mine show activity in 8hrs at 18c. Probably 20% of my 15 batches using US-05 have been rehydrates rather than harvested slurry which still begin in under 24hrs. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_McGlass Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I've not had any chlorophenols in my beer. I dont rinse as I dont want to risk possibly introducing new contaminants. I allow the FV to drain, upside down. It doesn't dry completely. So I'm just qurstioing this fear of chlorophenols. Im not a scientist or an expert, i could be wrong, i just have a lot of experience of zero chlorophenols or infection with this very weak but effective and cheap mix, which saved my brewing life really. Ive been able to brew confidently again, knowing my beers will taste how they should and will carbonate exactly as intended. It's the right solution for me in my very simple home brewery. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 It's probably just a case of there not being enough chlorine left behind to cause a problem with the process you're using, and there's nothing wrong with that if it's working for you. It's a well known beer fault though; it can happen if there is enough residual chlorine in the mix. Our tap water here is treated with chloramines, which aren't removed by boiling or evaporation. I brewed a lot of batches without treating the water to remove them and had no problems either except on one batch. It was a pretty awful beer as a result, so after that I began treating the water just in case to prevent it happening again as it's not something I want to taste again. As for pitching US-05, I've pitched it both warmer and cooler and never had any issues with off flavours. They almost always get going in under 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_McGlass Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 How much bleach ends up in my beer? I put one teaspoon in about 3.8 litres of water, sometimes 2 teaspoons in 7.5 litres, I turn the fv upside down with the lid on for a while etc, make sure all the FV is in contact for at least a minute or so, then pour it all out and leave it to drain for a while. There are tiny traces of water left behind. I started with about 5 ml of bleach in 3800ml of water, all except a trace of which has left the FV. My water is chlorinated too. I use campden to treat that. Maybe I could add campden after the FV is sanitised before I pour the solution away?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Taste threshold for chlorophenols are measured in parts per billion.... We all have different levels where we can taste them and I know I'm sensitive to them so I brew with rainwater. I do rotate between starsan and iodine based sanitiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Phil_McGlass said: How much bleach ends up in my beer? I put one teaspoon in about 3.8 litres of water, sometimes 2 teaspoons in 7.5 litres, I turn the fv upside down with the lid on for a while etc, make sure all the FV is in contact for at least a minute or so, then pour it all out and leave it to drain for a while. There are tiny traces of water left behind. I started with about 5 ml of bleach in 3800ml of water, all except a trace of which has left the FV. My water is chlorinated too. I use campden to treat that. Maybe I could add campden after the FV is sanitised before I pour the solution away?! That's what I'm saying, you're ending up with essentially nothing left after all that which is why you're not having any issues. Sometimes though, people don't adequately get rid of it and they end up with band-aid beer. I'm brewing with distilled water now which I make myself so I can dial in the water profile more accurately, but I still treat it with potassium metabisulphite as a preventative disinfectant. One teaspoon of it per cube, which normally would be overkill but this lot of the stuff has gassed off a lot of its SO2 from being improperly stored/humidity getting to it. If there is any chlorine or chloramines that somehow made their way in there then it'll take care of them too. My beers are better than they've ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I've just tasted, at FG and Dry Hop, a Pale recipe I'm going to settle on for summer drinking, a nice light colored 4% ABV bottled brew. It is basically an AG, with Traditional Ale 2.4kg, Maris Otter 1.4kg and Carapils 200g, with Simcoe FWH and some late Cascade or Amarillo, some dry hopped. Anyway, this latest one is on it's 3rd generation of US-05 slurry. The slurry generations always begin activity within 8hrs and I am a bit surprised by the aggressiveness in above recipe. The krausen has reached the airlock once and very high in the others in the standard 30L carboy with 23L wort. I put some of this good activity down to No-Chill cubing and then bottle filler pour next day through a seive into the FV which seems to aerate very well. It is pulling an OG of approx 1.033 down to 1.005 also. I have had no perceptible off tastes yet due to yeast generations. I'm going to keep going generationally with the harvested US-05 slurry into future batches to see when the US-05 begins to move away tastewise - just as an exercise, and because I am too lousy to purchase new yeast. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I found it got to about 8-9 generations before it threw a bloody awful phenolic like flavor through the beer, using the harvesting from starter method; whether it lasts as long, less or more with the slurry method who knows. Liquid strains I've taken to 15 generations without any noticeable change. I usually replace them at that stage as I'm not keen on having another batch of awful beer, and 15 generations equates to around 2-2.5 years per strain. I'm going to get another 1469 next trip to CB, which will mean my three strains are all pretty much around the same age in terms of generations, shouldn't have to buy any more for a couple of years now other than on selected batches where I might use a different strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennysbrew Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share Posted October 27, 2018 Revisited the two us05s yesterday Arvo, multiple times.... Both good. Not sure why I was getting hints 3-4 weeks ago? Maybe the cold weather and slower bottle conditioning ? Anyhow, maybe I'm sorry US05? P.s Both Dr smurto golden ale and Earle's s&w clone recipes are winners for beginners wanting to make above average session beers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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