Refreshing Summer Lager - need help and opinions

[Sandy35]

Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum and mostly new to brewing apart from full Kit beers. I've made one brew with some specialty grain and was really successful with that. It basically was a galaxy hopped Pale Ale. Very tasty with beautiful floral fruity aromas.

I'm now wanting to venture into some lager brewing. Nothing better than a hot summers afternoon where you can slam back a refreshing lager.

So I've recently been browsing beertools.com (great resource for recipes IMO) and came across this recipe which I'm looking for feedback and any tips. I hear you guys are very kind, knowledgeable friendly folk from a friend on this forum. So here it is.

 

110 grams Crystal 40L milled

110 grams Carapils milled

3kg Extra light Liquid Malt Extract

450 grams corn sugar

25 grams Mouteka

25 grams Amarillo

SAF lager yeast S-23 11g

 

Steep grains in 2 Litres of water @ 65-75 degrees for 30 minutes and drain with a further 2 litres of water into another pot. Add the liquid malt and corn sugar and stir to completely dissolve. Top pot up to 10 litres and return water to rolling boil.

 

Total boil time - 60 minutes

 

Add 25gms Amarillo hops @ 60 minutes

Add 10gms Mouteka hops @ 15 minutes.

Add 15gms Mouteka hops @ 5 minutes.

 

So here are my questions. First, is corn sugar and corn syrup (maltodextrin?) the same thing? If so, that seems like a lot to me. Normally I would have thought 200-300gms at most. Secondly, would all the liquid malt go into the boil? Finally, any tips for a first time lagerer? I have a fridge with a temperature controller switch, so that's sorted. But anything else?

 

Cheers and look forward to your feedback/tips [biggrin]

 

[Beerlust]

Hi Sandy35, & welcome to the forum. [smile]

 

First' date=' is corn sugar and corn syrup (maltodextrin?) the same thing?[/quote']

Corn sugar is as it suggests, a sugar & will ferment out increasing alcohol levels in your beer. Corn Syrup (maltodextrin) does not ferment out & is used to add body & mouth feel to your beer.

 

Secondly' date=' would all the liquid malt go into the boil?[/quote']

You can certainly do that. Just understand that hops utilize differently in different liquid gravities. A common gravity of approx. 1.040 for boiling is often recommended. To achieve this gravity you would need to add approx 1.2kgs of your LME for your 10 litre boil. Adding the whole tin will create a gravity of approx. 1.050. The gravity you ultimately decide to boil your hops in is not the be all & end all, but using a consistent gravity for your hop boils from brew to brew is, if you want to achieve consistent bitterness & flavour levels from your hop additions.

 

Finally' date=' any tips for a first time lagerer? I have a fridge with a temperature controller switch, so that's sorted. But anything else?[/quote']

You seem to have a good grasp on brewing temperatures, so all I would add is to make sure you do a diacetyl rest for a few days after your lager fermentation is complete. This will alleviate any butterscotch like flavours in the end beer. This trait is less important or noticeable in ales, but is certainly not something that is liked in a good lager beer.

 

Good luck with the brew.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Sandy35]

Cheers Anthony!! I really appreciate your feedback and tips. And it all makes sense! Just have to find me some corn sugar. My LHBS doesn't seem to stock it (at least on their website).

Thanks again! [biggrin]

[Hairy]

Cheers Anthony!! I really appreciate your feedback and tips. And it all makes sense! Just have to find me some corn sugar. My LHBS doesn't seem to stock it (at least on their website).

Thanks again! [biggrin]

Corn Sugar is another name for Dextrose. You should be able to get this from your LHBS or even Big W or K-Mart.

[Beerlust]

On a side note, I find it interesting that corn based sweeteners are more cost effective and are also banned in some European countries as a food additive.

 

Yet here we are as brewers, often using decent size volumes of the stuff in our brewing. [surprised

 

Anthony.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I would do the diacetyl rest about 3/4 of the way through the fermentation. All my reading suggests that there is little to no point in waiting until fermentation is complete, as you want to do it while the yeast are still active as this is when they will be most effective at cleaning up any diacetyl present.

 

If you're steeping grains and using this liquid as part of the hop boil you won't need to add as much LME. I wouldn't bother adding the corn sugar to the boil until the very end, so I'd probably guess with 220g of specialty malts to add somewhere between 900g-1kg of the LME then top up to 10L.

 

I've done a few AG lagers recently and my fermenting regime was basically ferment at 11C until it hit around 1020 SG, then raise the temp to 16C until ferment completed (D-rest), then chill down to around 1C for about 4 weeks before bottling. These have turned out rather nice, just tweaking the hop additions each time to try and get the flavour exactly how I want it. [cool]

[Beerlust]

so I'd probably guess with 220g of specialty malts to add somewhere between 900g-1kg of the LME then top up to 10L.

Incorrect. The 1.2kg of LME to add is inclusive of the grain steep liquid to reach 1.040.

 

I would do the diacetyl rest about 3/4 of the way through the fermentation. All my reading suggests that there is little to no point in waiting until fermentation is complete' date=' as you want to do it while the yeast are still active as this is when they will be most effective at cleaning up any diacetyl present.[/quote']

"Best practice" has always been a feature of discussions on this forum, & deferring from that in this instance may result in unforeseen issues if then used as a rule of thumb. Lagers warrant more primary ferment time so why rush that?

 

Also, a diacetyl rest is only required if kegging your beer. If you are bottling the beer this will occur naturally through the secondary fermentation phase provided the ambient temperatures they are stored at is 18\xb0C or above as I've read to believe.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[PB2]

Just bottled a lager today - it has the slightest hint of diacetyl.

I'm very confident that the diac' will be cleaned up during secondary fermentation in the bottles. [wink]

 

 

Lusty, would the Corn based sweeteners, to which you refer, be the High Fructose Corn Syrup? It's developed a bad reputation in recent years. [pinched]

 

[Beerlust]

Lusty' date=' would the Corn based sweeteners, to which you refer, be the High Fructose Corn Syrup? It's developed a bad reputation in recent years. [pinched']

Yes PB2. The article I read was related to High Fructose Corn Syrup.

 

How that relates to our brewing in an exact sense I admit I don't have any opinions or a direct answer for or against based on the article I read. Once you've read some of the literature though, it does make you wonder & question a few things. [unsure]

 

Anthony.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Fair call on the LME, just checked in the spreadsheet. My bad. [tongue]

 

I think if you have the capability to do a D-rest in primary, why not just do that? I highly doubt you'd have any issues doing this considering countless brewers use this method with no problems at all when brewing lagers. If you wait until it reaches a certain gravity, I don't see that as rushing the ferment, it's just waiting as long as it takes to reach that gravity before raising the temperature.

I recently had a lager go from 1046 to 1012 in 7 days, fermented at 11.5C. I immediately raised the temp because I wasn't expecting it to go that low that fast. It finished about 1008 from memory so I was a bit late on the temp rise. I couldn't taste any diacetyl in it, but it was just left to ambient temps after bottling so if there was any there it probably got cleaned up anyway.

 

At the end of the day, whatever works best for you and gives results you're happy with, is fair enough. It's just become part of my lager routine to do a D-rest in primary. I mainly did it because I brew lagers in winter when the ambient temp could be anything, and this way I know I've had the brew at a higher temp to let the yeast clean any up before it even gets into the bottles, so they can be left to carb up at their "leisure".[lol]

[Beerlust]

Hi Kelsey.

 

As you & I both know, things happen a little different in real time in a practical sense when it comes to brewing. I don't disbelieve a single thing you stated when it comes to diacetyl rest or your method for dealing with eliminating it.

 

All I know is that I got myself offside with a number of brewers on this forum in my early days by offering my practical experiences against best practices.

 

It's a tag I've had to wear ever since. [sad]

 

P.S. How'd the ESB go today, & what did your mate think of the whole brewing experience?

 

Anthony.

[Otto Von Blotto]

And that's the beauty of it really. [biggrin]

 

I do things that aren't considered best practice either (not star sanning bottles, caps etc), but it works for me and I've never had any bottle infections or issues.

 

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with letting the bottle ferment take care of the diacetyl, it's just easy and convenient for me to do it in primary, so I often offer this as a method when people are asking for advice and opinions on brewing lagers. [joyful]

 

I'll post about the brew day in the other thread in a sec, but all went well and he was quite interested and asking questions about it, and helped out a bit too which was cool. [biggrin]

[Sandy35]

Hi Guys. Thanks for all the input and suggestions. I have one final question. I don't have a glass carboy, just a food grade fermenter. Can I lager in this? I will eventually grab a carboy, but wondering if I can get away for now with just my standard fermenter?

[Otto Von Blotto]

I always lager in my fermenter with no ill effect. Most times I don't even bother racking it, I just lager in primary for a few weeks before I bottle it.