Dragon Fire IPA

[AaronS12]

Ok here is my in progress recipe for a spicy,earthy, aromatic IPA.

 

Coopers IPA kit

1.5kg Light Liquid malt

500g Dry Wheat Malt

500g Dextrose

300g Med Crystal malt

Wyeast 1056 1L+1L starter

21L is 7.2% ABV

 

Hops additions:

Styrian Goldings 20gm @ 20mins

Styrian Goldings 15gm @ 15mins

Styrian Goldings 10gm @ 10mins

Styrian Goldings 10gm @ 5mins

 

Saaz 15gm @ 5mins

Saaz 25gm@ Dry hop

 

Some questions for the masters :)

 

Will this have good body?

 

Would swapping the dextrose for Rye Malt be a good idea for body and spiciness?

 

Would adding spices like nutmeg etc be worth it or just make it weird tasting? I have a bag of real cinnamon bark I can dry "hop" some of.

 

Thanks, hoping to getthis brewing over the weekend.

[Hairy]

The recipe looks good. Have you dry hopped with Saaz before? I have read mixed reviews on dry hopping with Saaz so I have only ever used it as late additions in the boil.

 

You could always move that Saaz addition back in the boil to 10-15 minutes to get that nice spicy flavour and dry hop with some Styrian Goldings. All up to you in the end.

 

Will this have a good body? It will be like pouring Miranda Kerr into your glass [wink]

 

The dextrose is in there to boost the alcohol a bit without increasing the residual sweetness you get from too much malt. It will dry the beer a little and I think it is a good addition to the brew.

 

I have never used rye malt before but I guess you could use it in place of the crystal/victory. Rye malt needs to be mashed though. You are only talking a few hundred grams so as long as you keep it in the 60's degrees you should be fine.

 

Not sure about the nutmeg and cinnamon; to me you are just ruining a perfectly good beer. I woud rather let the hops shine in ths one but others may have a different opinion.

 

Let us know what you run with and how it turns out.

[AdamH1525226084]

The recipe looks good. Have you dry hopped with Saaz before? I have read mixed reviews on dry hopping with Saaz so I have only ever used it as late additions in the boil.

 

You could always move that Saaz addition back in the boil to 10-15 minutes to get that nice spicy flavour and dry hop with some Styrian Goldings. All up to you in the end.

 

Will this have a good body? It will be like pouring Miranda Kerr into your glass [wink]

 

The dextrose is in there to boost the alcohol a bit without increasing the residual sweetness you get from too much malt. It will dry the beer a little and I think it is a good addition to the brew.

 

I have never used rye malt before but I guess you could use it in place of the crystal/victory. Rye malt needs to be mashed though. You are only talking a few hundred grams so as long as you keep it in the 60's degrees you should be fine.

 

Not sure about the nutmeg and cinnamon; to me you are just ruining a perfectly good beer. I woud rather let the hops shine in ths one but others may have a different opinion.

 

Let us know what you run with and how it turns out.

 

Is that pre or post baby Hairy? [kissing]

 

Personally, I never bother with dextrose. I somehow always end up with a high ABV anyway.

 

I have never used Saaz before, but I would still agree with Hairy. As the IPA kit uses Styrian Goldings for aroma, why not keep it at that.

 

Hairy are you saying to just steep the rye like the crystal? I guess it would give the characteristics of the rye just without the sugars?

[AaronS12]

Alright, I have decided to keep it a bit simpler.

I put an order in with Grain and Grape last night.

Decided on pre milled Victory malt (Bries Victory right?).

 

I just steep that at an almost boil for 30 mins then strain into another pot and start the hop additions? Add dry wheat malt at 5 minutes left, then Liquid Malt at flameout?

 

 

Also going with dry yeast as I just want to get 2 IPA's fermenting with minimal fuss, and would rather hand pick my liquid yeasts after last time (they were hanging around for 3 months before I got them).

 

 

Been reading up on the Styrian Goldings, looks like a big dry hop will suit my purposes :)

 

So:

 

Coopers IPA kit

1.5kg Light Liquid malt

500g Dry Wheat Malt

500g Dextrose

300g Victory Malt, milled and steeped

Saf US-05 dry yeast 11.5gm

21L is 7.2% ABV

 

Hops additions:

Styrian Goldings 20gm @ 20mins

Styrian Goldings 15gm @ 15mins

Styrian Goldings 10gm @ 10mins

Styrian Goldings 10gm @ 5mins

Saaz 15gm @ 15mins

Saaz 10gm @ 10mins

 

Styrian Goldings 25gm@ Dry hop

 

OG 1067

FG 1015

 

IBU 56

EBC 21

 

Tempted to dry hop the 20gm of Motueka flowers I will have left over from the Motueka Slam IPA...

[Hairy]

Hairy are you saying to just steep the rye like the crystal? I guess it would give the characteristics of the rye just without the sugars?

Mashing is really just a steep at controlled temps. I was just saying to steep them at temps in the 60's. For 300g worth of grain it doesn't really matter if you mash in the low 60's and get a more fermentable wort or in the high 60's and get a less fermentable wort with more dextrins. You are really just after the flavour.

 

Aaron, that recipe looks really good. Mr Malty suggests pitching 15g dry yeast in that batch so perhaps you could toss in half (or all) the kit yeast.

 

What size boil are you planning on doing? What size pot do you have? It isn't essential but I would run with at least a 4 litre boil for this one.

 

Steep the grain in 2 litres of water for 30 minutes around 70 degrees. If you don't have a thermometer then go with 2/3 boiling water and 1/3 cold tap water. I will be good enough for a steep.

 

After 30 minutes, strain this into another pot (or remove the grain bag if using that). Add another 2 litres of water and 200g dry wheat malt. Bring to boil and then start your hop additions.

 

I usually add all the other malt/sugar in the FV but you can do it at flame out if you want.

[AaronS12]

Hairy are you saying to just steep the rye like the crystal? I guess it would give the characteristics of the rye just without the sugars?

Mashing is really just a steep at controlled temps. I was just saying to steep them at temps in the 60's. For 300g worth of grain it doesn't really matter if you mash in the low 60's and get a more fermentable wort or in the high 60's and get a less fermentable wort with more dextrins. You are really just after the flavour.

 

Aaron, that recipe looks really good. Mr Malty suggests pitching 15g dry yeast in that batch so perhaps you could toss in half (or all) the kit yeast. Ok I will just pitch the kit yeast in addition to a pack of US-05.

 

What size boil are you planning on doing? What size pot do you have? It isn't essential but I would run with at least a 4 litre boil for this one.

- A large pot for pasta/vegies but will be fine for a 4l steeping.

 

Steep the grain in 2 litres of water for 30 minutes around 70 degrees. If you don't have a thermometer then go with 2/3 boiling water and 1/3 cold tap water. I will be good enough for a steep. - I have an IR tempgun I use for getting FV and wort temps already

 

After 30 minutes, strain this into another pot (or remove the grain bag if using that). Add another 2 litres of water and 200g dry wheat malt. Bring to boil and then start your hop additions. - No grain bag but I will buy a large strainer just for brewing. - I have to buy a large pot for boiling the hops...what size would you suggest? My calculations are based on a 6L boil.

I usually add all the other malt/sugar in the FV but you can do it at flame out if you want.

 

Replies in red. Thanks a lot for your help Hairy.

 

I am thinking of just getting a portable gas burner and doing the boils and brewing in the garage with the roller door up...suitable?

 

I need to get a large pot too, Big W have some. Maybe a 20 or 30L?

 

Can I boil the hops in stainless steel mesh balls, same ones I would use for dry hopping? Or just go commando style and strain?

 

If I do a 6L boil for the hops, just add 400gm of the Dry Wheat Malt when I add the 4L to the 2L of Victory Malt water? Then the last 100gm of Dry Wheat Malt with the other fermentables after straining the 6L into the FV?

 

Sorry for so many questions, but I think I have it worked out now :)

[Khellendros13]

Ok just had a Sierra Nevada Torpedo followed by a Vale IPA now.

 

The Torpedo packs a punch, lots of flavour, bitterness.

 

The Vale IPA is supposed to be spicy from what I have read...but for me that is missing in action !

 

I need a tonne of spicing up in my recipe if the above additions will not give me more than what this Vale IPA has.

 

The Torpedo is about 65 IBU so I don't mind going towards that but wouldn't want to go much over 60 IBU.

 

The Vale IPA is nice, less challenging than the Torpedo but I want more spice! I can feel it, but it's more a slight sensation than cutting through the bitterness.

[Hairy]

I find the Vale IPA quite citrusy and fruity but not spicy at all.

 

With regards to your earlier post, your ingredients for the 6 litre boil are fine. Big W have 19 litre pots for around $20 and they are great for extract brewing. I still use mine for partials and stove top AG brews.

 

If you are just doing hop boils for kit brews or doing extract brews then you really don't need a burner. If your stove can boil 5-6 litres then it is easier just to use that.

[AdamH1525226084]

My largest pot size was around 10L - it was fine for steeping, and low to medium IBU's in extract brewing but nor large enough for getting the IBU's required for an IPA. So if you are able to get one of the pots Hairy mentioned it may come in handy.

 

I have a 40L pot now and got my 3 ring burner this week that Philbo recommended so will be experimenting with AG brews as well now [biggrin]

[Khellendros13]

My largest pot size was around 10L - it was fine for steeping, and low to medium IBU's in extract brewing but nor large enough for getting the IBU's required for an IPA. So if you are able to get one of the pots Hairy mentioned it may come in handy.

 

I have a 40L pot now and got my 3 ring burner this week that Philbo recommended so will be experimenting with AG brews as well now [biggrin]

 

Yep just got the 19L stock pot this morning. The stove has a wok burner with 2 rings, so I can use that I suppose.

[Hairy]

The stove has a wok burner with 2 rings' date=' so I can use that I suppose[/quote']

My stove has something similar and I can boil 16 litres of wort comfortably. I even had to back off the heat once it got boiling. You should be fine.

[Khellendros13]

Ok got the brewing on Sunday arvo. Dry pitched the yeast and had about 8-10hr lag time.

 

However, it only had an OG of 1062, not the expected 1067.

Could this be due to using Victory Malt and the spreadsheet only had Crystal? Combined with me maybe not getting all the sugars out of the grains?

 

I steeped them between 67 and 70c for 30 mins, stirring a few times. Maybe U should actually mash them with a masher while steeping?

 

Pitched yeast at 24c, got it to 20c within 12hrs, now 19c or slightly under.

 

Smelled pretty nice, but no hints of spice. Tasted bitter and sweet (obviously) but looking forward to it. Tastes much bigger and better than my other brews at the same stage.

[Hairy]

It wouldn't be the grains. 300g Crystal or Victory will only add a couple of points at most.

 

More than likely not all your ingredients were thoroughly mixed in. This won't matter in the end though, it will still ferment.

 

Your grain procedure looks fine. Nice temp, occasional stir; all good. Mashing grains doesn't mean you mash them with a masher (like a potato masher).

 

Mashing is soaking the grains in water at a certain temp for a certain period of time. It is similar to steeping. With steeping you aren't really converting starch into sugar so temp control isn't imperative. However, there is a conversion occuring with base grains in a mash and the temperature of the mash will impact this.

 

Your brew sounds like it is going well. Good stuff!

[Khellendros13]

Thanks Hairy. Getting the hang of it now. Frozen bottles, water bath , towel and a sleeping bag go a long way in keeping temps under 20c :)

 

When calculating the % ABV, should I use the recipe OG of 1067 or the measured 1062? I didn't waste any liquid malt or wheat malt - malt can was clean and I put about 5-10gm extra of the wheat malt in. Only a few scrapings left in the IPA can.

 

Cheers

[Hairy]

When calculating the % ABV, should I use the recipe OG of 1067 or the measured 1062? I didn't waste any liquid malt or wheat malt - malt can was clean and I put about 5-10gm extra of the wheat malt in. Only a few scrapings left in the IPA can.

 

Cheers

I would run with 1067 for the ABV calc; it is probably more accurate. Even if it is a couple of points out it won't change the ABV by much.

[Muddy Waters]

Wouldn't the measured OG be more accurate? This is the actual OG whereas the recipe OG is estimate only. Or did I misread???

[Hairy]

I just jumped to the conclusion that the measured reading was an incorrect reading [surprised

 

IanH's spreadsheet gives the estimated OG as 1068. I have always found this tool to be pretty close, if not spot on. Unless you left a bit of malt behind it isn't usually out by 6 points, in my experience anyway.

 

You could be right though Muddy.

 

Either way it is a biggish beer and I wouldn't be driving after a couple of them.

[PhilboBaggins]

I have a 40L pot now and got my 3 ring burner this week that Philbo recommended so will be experimenting with AG brews as well now [biggrin]

 

And I just upgraded my kettle to a 40L. It surprised me how much longer it took to bring all that wort to the boil, but once it was off it was a good strong boil.

[Khellendros13]

Wouldn't the measured OG be more accurate? This is the actual OG whereas the recipe OG is estimate only. Or did I misread???

 

That's why I am asking, if I didn't fully mix and dissolve the fermentables and got an inaccurate reading, the yeast will still produce 7.2% ABV (after bottle conditioning) if it gets to an FG of 1015...

 

Though if it really is 1062 then it should end at 1013 and 6.9%...

 

Right? [crying]

 

I am probably over thinking this.

 

Is there much chance of it to finish lower than the target FG?

 

I guess I just have to wait a week and see [pinched]

[Khellendros13]

Photo update!

 

It is smelling delectable, removed the krausen ring this morning and I almost wanted to spoon off the top and eat it.

 

Feels like I am losing yeast by removing the krausen ring though?

 

Been keeping it at 18-20c. Lowest is 17.9c and highest 20.3c.

Is 22c ok to let it clean up after fermenting is done?

 

By the look of it, it is still going full steam ahead. The aroma has some bite. Hints of cinnamon and quite fruity...hoping the spice comes through in the flavour more than the fruitiness. Some biscuity/caramel undertones too so I can't wait.

 

I think I can squeeze more hops into the next one :)

 

However exciting it is right now...I will have to wait and taste the end result.

 

 

 

[Hairy]

22 degrees is fine after it is done fermenting.

 

I'm not sure how much yeast is in the krausen ring but losing it won't make a difference to your beer. You should have plenty of yeast by now.

 

I don't use the krausen collar unless I think there may be a huge krausen, just a personal thing. I last used it on my wheat beer thinking it would be volcanic but the krausen managed to peak at around half an inch. Very disappointing [crying]

[Khellendros13]

Bottled on Saturday. 27 bottles. Finished at 1010, estimated 7.2% after bottle conditioned (added .3% for 6gm/L rather than .5% for 8gm/L)

 

Can't wait until Easter weekend to try it, but I fear I may have stuffed it up - I got a bit keen on checking the aroma while it was fermenting. Hopefully I didn't over burp and let any nasties take hold.

[Khellendros13]

Well, almost 4 weeks in the bottle and it tastes too sweet. Really can't taste much hop flavour. I may have added too little hops or maybe I should have added a sharper hop with the Goldings?

 

It finished just under the projected OG so I am fairly certain it was well fermented. Probably just not enough hops to counter all that malt.

 

I have noticed that all the hops I have, are significantly less in AA% than I see in recipes or IanH spreadsheet. Need to make sure I input the correct AA% and then build my beer.

 

I understand it needs time for flavours to meld, but I also understand the hops dissipate too. I guess if it is not better in another 2 weeks, I just need to hop the shit out of it :)

[AdamH1525226084]

Well, almost 4 weeks in the bottle and it tastes too sweet. Really can't taste much hop flavour. I may have added too little hops or maybe I should have added a sharper hop with the Goldings?

 

It finished just under the projected OG so I am fairly certain it was well fermented. Probably just not enough hops to counter all that malt.

 

I have noticed that all the hops I have, are significantly less in AA% than I see in recipes or IanH spreadsheet. Need to make sure I input the correct AA% and then build my beer.

 

I understand it needs time for flavours to meld, but I also understand the hops dissipate too. I guess if it is not better in another 2 weeks, I just need to hop the ****out of it :)

 

What size boil did you end up doing? Someone told me that the wort will accept a max. of 100 IBU's and you have to factor in dilution if you add more water.

I just found this handy calculator - don't know how accurate it is, but it gives you an idea. Definitely explains a few things in my earlier brews. Not sure if IanH's spreadsheet factors dilution in

[edit] nope, don't look like it

[Khellendros13]

Thanks Adam, I will plug in my hop additions and see what it spits out. The IanH spreadhseet has boil concentraion for the hops, which increases the IBU as the boil size increases.

 

I used a 7L boil. I could do double that, but not much more as I have a 19L pot. Cooling a 7L boil takes enough time as it is for me but looking at just doing my boils on a Saturday and chilling in the fridge then pitching on Sunday.