Pressure ferment, cold crash and fining

[Aussiekraut]

Here is one for you. Not sure which of the existing topics it would fit. 

I am going to cold crash the Munich Helles in the pressure fermenter in a few days and it occurred to me that I have a slight problem here. I normally add finings on day 2 of the cold crash but because it is a pressure fermenter, I cannot get them in without opening the FV. Stirring is also a potential issue as the FermZilla has a fairly small opening and I'd have to lift the whole assembly out of the fridge, then open it, add finings, TRY to stir them in gently, close the FV again, purge it and re-gas it. That is a little silly, isn't it? So I thought about adding the finings in the keg but that comes with other caveats. For starters, the kegs are purged and pressurised and opening them will re-introduce oxygen. I can probably purge them again afterwards but it seems an awful waste of gas. Plus the second problem is that everything the finings drop out will be sitting at the bottom of the keg. When the keg gets moved, be it to get it from the lager keezer into the kegerator or even moving it out of the kegerator to get to a keg behind it. Each time it gets moved, all the work of the finings is reversed. 

I know, first world problem but how do you guys deal with this? I thought a hop bong might help but that still wouldn't stir things. 

Edited April 19 by Aussiekraut

[kmar92]

I guess a potential solution would be not to add any finings to the pressure fermenter or keg and then use a floating offtake in the keg. That is if you have a floating offtake.

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Here is one for you. Not sure which of the existing topics it would fit. 

I am going to cold crash the Munich Helles in the pressure fermenter in a few days and it occurred to me that I have a slight problem here. I normally add finings on day 2 of the cold crash but because it is a pressure fermenter, I cannot get them in without opening the FV. Stirring is also a potential issue as the FermZilla has a fairly small opening and I'd have to lift the whole assembly out of the fridge, then open it, add finings, TRY to stir them in gently, close the FV again, purge it and re-gas it. That is a little silly, isn't it? So I thought about adding the finings in the keg but that comes with other caveats. For starters, the kegs are purged and pressurised and opening them will re-introduce oxygen. I can probably purge them again afterwards but it seems an awful waste of gas. Plus the second problem is that everything the finings drop out will be sitting at the bottom of the keg. When the keg gets moved, be it to get it from the lager keezer into the kegerator or even moving it out of the kegerator to get to a keg behind it. Each time it gets moved, all the work of the finings is reversed. 

I know, first world problem but how do you guys deal with this? I thought a hop bong might help but that still wouldn't stir things. 

I pressure fermented 3 lagers recently.  The first 2 dropped from about 12 to 5psi during the slow cold crash (they were all dropped 1.5°C every 12 hours).  For those 2, it was no problem to open the FV, add finings (Biofine), give them a gentle stir, refit the lid, pressurise them back to around 12psi and leave to cold crash.  For the last one, it was still quite close to 10psi after the slow cold crash.  So when I opening it up to add finings, the internal foaming up was enough to significantly rouse the yeast cake at the bottom.  It did not over-flow, as I have seen in some YouTube videos.  However, it made the brew extremely hazy.  To the degree that my usual finings addition did not fine the beer very well.

I think if you slow cold crash your brew, it will still drop a lot of the suspended material out.  Then you can add finings to the keg to finish off the job.  Hopefully, even with some moving around of the keg, most of the haze will stay around the bottom of the keg.  It should only affect the first glass or two you pull out and maybe one glass each time you might move the keg around.  It will not resuspend the settled material throughout the keg unless you shake it up a lot.

Alternatively, release pressure as you slow cold crash.  That way, by the time you come to add finings, there is no more pressure in the FV than with a non-pressurised ferment.  You should be able to add finings as usual.  Having the beer carbonated in the fermenter, which can be one of the benefits of pressure fermenting, is less of a benefit/need with lagers.  Especially if you lager them for a while - You can use CO2 to naturally carbonate the keg for a week before serving.

[iBooz2]

@Aussiekraut , AK you are overcomplicating pressure fermenting and adding stuff to the FV like finings.  Try doing it the iBooz2 way.  I have done this many times and its fine, no oxidation and never any issues re distribution within and into the FV.

Get your Rrr's down to Bunnings (or any other BBQ retailer) and buy one of these meat marinating syringes.   Push on some beer line to suit the ID of the beer line and needle size on your chosen marinating syringe, clamp it then attach a gas ball lock connector to the short length of beer line at the other end (see pic of my setup). 

With a carbonation post connected to this (yellow one in the pic) you can suck up any fining mix and then inject it into your pressure FV by fully pushing in the syringe and then sucking up what to need to inject from say a jug of that mix and removing the yellow carbonation post and then connecting the ball lock connector to the gas in post of the FV and then injecting its contents into the FV

Just make sure that the pressure has been released from you FV before you connect it to the gas post by lifting up the PRV on the pressure fermenter and turning it 90 degrees clockwise and let the PRV sit up on the open position on the PRV's base.  Then you can connect the device in my pic and squirt in anything you want to go into the FV via the gas in post.

After you are done, close the PRV by rotating the PRV clockwise once again and letting it drop down into the closed position.

With the Fermzilla, all you have to do after that is wobble the whole FV around in a circular motion to distribute the injected liquid.  A few minutes of wobbling the Fermzilla and it will all be pretty much distributed into the beer.  No need to remove the lid and re-purge at all.  Also, no need to lift the whole thing out of your fridge to do this task.

I use this setup to squirt in hop teas and the like into my kegs with the greatest of ease.

Edited April 21 by iBooz2

[Marty_G]

Make up one of these. Can get the fitting from your local HB store or KegLand.   I use it for all sort of transfers to my pressure fermenter but mostly to transfer finings.   I put my gelatin solution in the bottle. It has liquid and gas post like a mini keg and use the lead for my closed transfers to transfer to the fermenter. On the top post put some beer line to work as the dip tube. Little tip, make sure the pressure in the transfer bottle in way higher the the fermenter.  

 

I also use one of  these to flush my kegs with StarSan after I have rinsed them. 

[Triple B Brewing]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:12 PM, Marty_G said:

also use one of  these to flush my kegs with StarSan after I have rinsed them. 

Snap @Marty_G - me too - A great simple little bit of kit - the best thing since sliced bread (or kegged beer really)