whats the difference between using Coopers brew enhancer 1 or a bag of dextrose ?

[JohnnyHavana]

I will be making a Canadian blonde batch , only made one other 3 weeks ago. I used the full kit so everything was in it.

For my next one should i use the dextrose or the brew enhancer 1 or 2, not sure what the difference is.

also for the Yeast, i know one comes with the Coopers yeast, but one of the Coopers videos suggested one of their other yeasts for a better flavour.

Again all new to this so any guidance would be great thank you. 

[Aussiekraut]

15 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

I will be making a Canadian blonde batch , only made one other 3 weeks ago. I used the full kit so everything was in it.

For my next one should i use the dextrose or the brew enhancer 1 or 2, not sure what the difference is.

also for the Yeast, i know one comes with the Coopers yeast, but one of the Coopers videos suggested one of their other yeasts for a better flavour.

Again all new to this so any guidance would be great thank you. 

BE1 contains 60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin. The latter doesn't ferment out and will add body to the beer. BE2 is something like 50% dextrose, 25% DME and 25%. Out of the three, I'd go for BE2. You get a little less ABV but a better beer. 

Unless you intend to up the ABV dramatically, the kit yeast is sufficient but better yeast is always a good idea. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

18 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

I will be making a Canadian blonde batch , only made one other 3 weeks ago. I used the full kit so everything was in it.

For my next one should i use the dextrose or the brew enhancer 1 or 2, not sure what the difference is.

also for the Yeast, i know one comes with the Coopers yeast, but one of the Coopers videos suggested one of their other yeasts for a better flavour.

Again all new to this so any guidance would be great thank you. 

I would use the Brew Enhancer, not the Dextrose, the brew Enhancers are made up of special ingredients to compliment your beer, dextrose will thin it, make it watery & tasteless.

Cooperrs Brew Enhancer 1 contains 60% Dextrose, 40% Maltodextrin

Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 contains 500g dextrose, 250g maltodextrin & 250g light dry malt.

Coopers Brew Enhancer 3 contains a higher amount of light dry malt & maltodextrin.

Coopers yeasts are more than adequate of making a good beer however sometimes another specialist yeast is recommended.

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

@JohnnyHavana, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the Canadian Blonde can no matter what enhancer you use with it.  I have used it a few times, including with a simple pale liquid malt extract.  Nicely bitter and good flavour.

[JohnnyHavana]

13 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

BE1 contains 60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin. The latter doesn't ferment out and will add body to the beer. BE2 is something like 50% dextrose, 25% DME and 25%. Out of the three, I'd go for BE2. You get a little less ABV but a better beer. 

Unless you intend to up the ABV dramatically, the kit yeast is sufficient but better yeast is always a good idea. 

hello @Aussiekraut thank you for the information, what is ABV ?? sorry new here .

[JohnnyHavana]

13 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I would use the Brew Enhancer, not the Dextrose, the brew Enhancers are made up of special ingredients to compliment your beer, dextrose will thin it, make it watery & tasteless.

Cooperrs Brew Enhancer 1 contains 60% Dextrose, 40% Maltodextrin

Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 contains 500g dextrose, 250g maltodextrin & 250g light dry malt.

Coopers Brew Enhancer 3 contains a higher amount of light dry malt & maltodextrin.

Coopers yeasts are more than adequate of making a good beer however sometimes another specialist yeast is recommended.

 

Thank you for that clarification, i figured Coopers spent the time to create this, they know what they are doing, but i am reading a lot of experienced people on here use different things, so i thought to ask so i understand. I'll stick with the enhancer then and go buy the explanation of CBE 1,2 or 3, seems for a light beer, the CBE1 is the way to go. Thanx again and cheers 

[JohnnyHavana]

14 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

BE1 contains 60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin. The latter doesn't ferment out and will add body to the beer. BE2 is something like 50% dextrose, 25% DME and 25%. Out of the three, I'd go for BE2. You get a little less ABV but a better beer. 

Unless you intend to up the ABV dramatically, the kit yeast is sufficient but better yeast is always a good idea. 

OK i found out ABV is Alcohol by volume,, so no im good with the abv i get with the kits, but which yeast is better to use, new to that as well, need to do some research, any suggestions for a Blonde or light beer ?

[ChairmanDrew]

21 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

OK i found out ABV is Alcohol by volume,, so no im good with the abv i get with the kits, but which yeast is better to use, new to that as well, need to do some research, any suggestions for a Blonde or light beer ?

As Classic Brewing Co said above, there may be times when a specific yeast is called for, but for what your trying to achieve right now (decent, drinkable beer) the kit yeast will do just fine.

You will see much better gains from using malt extracts as opposed to simple sugars. A higher malt extract content will generally give you better results.

[JohnnyHavana]

2 minutes ago, ChairmanDrew said:

As Classic Brewing Co said above, there may be times when a specific yeast is called for, but for what your trying to achieve right now (decent, drinkable beer) the kit yeast will do just fine.

You will see much better gains from using malt extracts as opposed to simple sugars. A higher malt extract content will generally give you better results.

ok thank you, i will read up more on malt extracts and try to figure out what/how will give me better results, but ill check that link also, cheers.

[ChairmanDrew]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

ok thank you, i will read up more on malt extracts and try to figure out what/how will give me better results, but ill check that link also, cheers.

Apologies, that isn't really a link, just a reference to a user here. I meant to refer to this post of his:

I'm yet to really delve into yeast, but in my limited experience yeast choice has less impact on your final product than other core ingredients, like malts and hops (unless you are requiring a brew specific yeast, like for eg. lager or sour, etc.).

Edited March 20 by ChairmanDrew

[Aussiekraut]

7 hours ago, JohnnyHavana said:

hello @Aussiekraut thank you for the information, what is ABV ?? sorry new here .

Sorry, it is the alcohol content. ABV, alcohol by volume. 

[Back Brewing]

23 hours ago, JohnnyHavana said:

I will be making a Canadian blonde batch , only made one other 3 weeks ago. I used the full kit so everything was in it.

For my next one should i use the dextrose or the brew enhancer 1 or 2, not sure what the difference is.

also for the Yeast, i know one comes with the Coopers yeast, but one of the Coopers videos suggested one of their other yeasts for a better flavour.

Again all new to this so any guidance would be great thank you. 

What I would suggest is do a brew with BE2 and a brew with BE3 and feel the difference in mouth feel and head retention after that do a 3rd brew using a kilo of light dried malt extract and see what difference that makes take the attitude of walk before you run

Brewing is a journey of starting, learning and experimenting just relax have a home brew and study the forum you will be making good beer soon enough.

[JohnnyHavana]

20 hours ago, Back Brewing said:

What I would suggest is do a brew with BE2 and a brew with BE3 and feel the difference in mouth feel and head retention after that do a 3rd brew using a kilo of light dried malt extract and see what difference that makes take the attitude of walk before you run

Brewing is a journey of starting, learning and experimenting just relax have a home brew and study the forum you will be making good beer soon enough.

Thank you BB, much appreciated, i though the BE2 and 3 were for darker beers, but i guess it be interesting with a lighter beer and yes walk before you run, i get it, take care.

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, JohnnyHavana said:

Thank you BB, much appreciated, i though the BE2 and 3 were for darker beers, but i guess it be interesting with a lighter beer and yes walk before you run, i get it, take care.

No, those BEs are for all beers. the higher the number on the brew enhancer, the better the beer will be. Beer is a malt drink and using proper malt is to be preferred over other fermentable sugars. While using dextrose makes beer, all it does is increase alcohol. There is nothing to aid flavour, body or even head formation/retention. Maltodextrin doesn't ferment and leaves a slight sweetness, which aids the mouthfeel of the beer. Because it doesn't ferment, it doesn't contribute to the alcohol content of the beer. Proper malt extract, be it dry or liquid, will make things heaps better. Better mouthfeel and taste, better head formation even better look. It doesn't ferment out completely, so in order to get the same ABV as when using dextrose, you need to use more. For dry malt extract, about 25% more, liquid about 50%. So instead of a kilo of dextrose, use 1.25kg of DME or 1.5kg LME. Of course, you can add extra dextrose to bring the alcohol levels up if you so desire. You can make some awesome beers using kits & bits but neither contain dextrose besides for priming before bottling or as a booster to bring the alcohol levels up. 

Unlike 20odd years ago, when brewing from a kit meant mainly using a kilo of dextrose or sugar and the result was the typical home brew only the brewers really appreciated, we live in a time where making great beers using humble kits is commonplace and it has never been easier. Just look at the recipe section here in the forum. 

[JohnnyHavana]

On 3/21/2024 at 6:30 PM, Aussiekraut said:

No, those BEs are for all beers. the higher the number on the brew enhancer, the better the beer will be. Beer is a malt drink and using proper malt is to be preferred over other fermentable sugars. While using dextrose makes beer, all it does is increase alcohol. There is nothing to aid flavour, body or even head formation/retention. Maltodextrin doesn't ferment and leaves a slight sweetness, which aids the mouthfeel of the beer. Because it doesn't ferment, it doesn't contribute to the alcohol content of the beer. Proper malt extract, be it dry or liquid, will make things heaps better. Better mouthfeel and taste, better head formation even better look. It doesn't ferment out completely, so in order to get the same ABV as when using dextrose, you need to use more. For dry malt extract, about 25% more, liquid about 50%. So instead of a kilo of dextrose, use 1.25kg of DME or 1.5kg LME. Of course, you can add extra dextrose to bring the alcohol levels up if you so desire. You can make some awesome beers using kits & bits but neither contain dextrose besides for priming before bottling or as a booster to bring the alcohol levels up. 

Unlike 20odd years ago, when brewing from a kit meant mainly using a kilo of dextrose or sugar and the result was the typical home brew only the brewers really appreciated, we live in a time where making great beers using humble kits is commonplace and it has never been easier. Just look at the recipe section here in the forum. 

wow, ok great to know, I've now been drinking my first brew, been fermenting for 42 days, its the lager.

I find it a bit bitter, but not sure if another couple weeks or month will mellow that out a bit?

I will brew the Canadian Blonde next and try the BE3 instead of the BE2 as you said its better quality and should give me a better taste , feel and head retention. 
Actually being a newby, when i pour my brew, i got about a 3/4" head which was nice, then it flattened right out to like 1/8" which i guess is what the head retention is? So hopefully the BE3 will mellow out the beer a bit and keep a better head ??

Lastly i do like a sweeter beer, like a Richards Red ( the red is 3rd in the list to try) so hopefully this combo works better for me. 

let me know if anything im saying here is wrong please, just so i learn and again thank you for your time

[Classic Brewing Co]

46 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

wow, ok great to know, I've now been drinking my first brew, been fermenting for 42 days, its the lager.

I find it a bit bitter, but not sure if another couple weeks or month will mellow that out a bit?

I will brew the Canadian Blonde next and try the BE3 instead of the BE2 as you said its better quality and should give me a better taste , feel and head retention. 
Actually being a newby, when i pour my brew, i got about a 3/4" head which was nice, then it flattened right out to like 1/8" which i guess is what the head retention is? So hopefully the BE3 will mellow out the beer a bit and keep a better head ??

Lastly i do like a sweeter beer, like a Richards Red ( the red is 3rd in the list to try) so hopefully this combo works better for me. 

let me know if anything im saying here is wrong please, just so i learn and again thank you for your time

The Canadian Blonde is best suited for the BE2, see attached, the can is pre-hopped & the brew is meant to brewed to a particular style.

You still can use the BE3 but you could experiment & try it with both & see what suits you best.

Coopers DIY Beer Canadian Blonde

Later you may want to look at a small grain addition which will aid head retention greatly.

ADDS BODY AND HEAD RETENTION WHEN INCORPORATED INTO AN EXTRACT BEER RECIPE.

Used in combination with a standard extract beer recipe. Carapils adds body, head retention and mouthfeel to the final beer. Carapils will add little to no colour to the final beer making it perfect for any style of beer where extra body is required.

BEER:

Dosage: 100 - 250g per 23L batch.

HOW TO USE STEEPING GRAINS:

1. In a small pot bring 2L of water to a simmer then turn off the heat. Do not boil the grains as this can add an astringent flavour to your final beer.
2. Add your steeping grains to the pot and stir to ensure all grains are wet.
3. Add lid to your steeping pot and allow to steep for 20 minutes.
4. Using a mesh strainer or similar strain out all of the grain before adding it to your sanitised fermenter. This hot grain liquid can be used to dissolve your other malt extracts.
5. Continue your brew day following the same brewing processes you normally would, adding your other ingredients to the fermenter as per normal.

GREAT WHEN USED IN:

- Darker Pale ales
- IPA's
- Stouts
- Porters
- Amber Ales
- Bock
- Pilsner
- Pale Ale
- Lagers
- Dark Lagers
- Amber Lagers

 

[JohnnyHavana]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

The Canadian Blonde is best suited for the BE2, see attached, the can is pre-hopped & the brew is meant to brewed to a particular style.

You still can use the BE3 but you could experiment & try it with both & see what suits you best.

Coopers DIY Beer Canadian Blonde

Later you may want to look at a small grain addition which will aid head retention greatly.

ADDS BODY AND HEAD RETENTION WHEN INCORPORATED INTO AN EXTRACT BEER RECIPE.

Used in combination with a standard extract beer recipe. Carapils adds body, head retention and mouthfeel to the final beer. Carapils will add little to no colour to the final beer making it perfect for any style of beer where extra body is required.

BEER:

Dosage: 100 - 250g per 23L batch.

HOW TO USE STEEPING GRAINS:

1. In a small pot bring 2L of water to a simmer then turn off the heat. Do not boil the grains as this can add an astringent flavour to your final beer.
2. Add your steeping grains to the pot and stir to ensure all grains are wet.
3. Add lid to your steeping pot and allow to steep for 20 minutes.
4. Using a mesh strainer or similar strain out all of the grain before adding it to your sanitised fermenter. This hot grain liquid can be used to dissolve your other malt extracts.
5. Continue your brew day following the same brewing processes you normally would, adding your other ingredients to the fermenter as per normal.

GREAT WHEN USED IN:

- Darker Pale ales
- IPA's
- Stouts
- Porters
- Amber Ales
- Bock
- Pilsner
- Pale Ale
- Lagers
- Dark Lagers
- Amber Lagers

 

ok sold i will go wtih the BE2 and will add the Carapils malt
- can you tell me if this is the right stuff, its local on amazon.ca - xhttps://www.amazon.ca/Brewmaster-GR450E-Malt-Carapils-lb/dp/B074D9Y5B7/ref=sr_1_3?crid=MYA55VRGN2Z8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.orQSvzBGd0Gx5H6NU1tZLNIqdJtH_uYNCuUulod25lrLFhsEvwxWad2Rj7900031.oAEd1BlDYJ-vFuTRWBVO59P1mP8uhyo7bVirvoKMB6Y&dib_tag=se&keywords=Carapils&qid=1711412111&sprefix=carapils%2Caps%2C427&sr=8-3

thank you for the perfectly detailed explanation

 

Edited March 26 by JohnnyHavana

[Back Brewing]

27 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

ok sold i will go wtih the BE2 and will add the Carapils malt
- can you tell me if this is the right stuff, its local on amazon.ca - xhttps://www.amazon.ca/Brewmaster-GR450E-Malt-Carapils-lb/dp/B074D9Y5B7/ref=sr_1_3?crid=MYA55VRGN2Z8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.orQSvzBGd0Gx5H6NU1tZLNIqdJtH_uYNCuUulod25lrLFhsEvwxWad2Rj7900031.oAEd1BlDYJ-vFuTRWBVO59P1mP8uhyo7bVirvoKMB6Y&dib_tag=se&keywords=Carapils&qid=1711412111&sprefix=carapils%2Caps%2C427&sr=8-3

thank you for the perfectly detailed explanation

 

Just go to your local home brew shop and get 200g or 250g or what you need it's cheap and really helps with mouth feel and head retention and don't forget to ask for it milled (crushed) then steep in 2 litres of water about 70c in a hop sock which you buy when you buy the Carapils for 20 minutes drain and remove the hop sock and bring the liquid to a boil for 5 minutes.

Put your can contents in your clean and sanitised FV and the BE2 or BE3 then pour the boiled 2 litres of boiled liquid in the FV to stir and dissolve the contents then fill with water to the desired level and ferment as normal

Hope this helps 

Edited March 26 by Back Brewing

[JohnnyHavana]

one more question about bitterness scores.

the IBU bitterness scores are:

Lager -390

Mexican cervesa -325

European Lager - 340

Thomas family secret Amber ale -500

and Canadian Blonde - 420

So my thinking was that the bitterness would be lower on the Blonde, but its higher than all the others on this list aside from the Amber .

Maybe I should get the European Lager as that might be more like my target Mill St Organic beer.

is there any way to reduce the bitterness in a beer? 

and not really sure how much bitterness difference there is between a 420 vrs 340 .

I tried to find the IBU for the Mill St organic but no luck.

[Classic Brewing Co]

38 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

ok sold i will go wtih the BE2 and will add the Carapils malt
- can you tell me if this is the right stuff, its local on amazon.ca - xhttps://www.amazon.ca/Brewmaster-GR450E-Malt-Carapils-lb/dp/B074D9Y5B7/ref=sr_1_3?crid=MYA55VRGN2Z8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.orQSvzBGd0Gx5H6NU1tZLNIqdJtH_uYNCuUulod25lrLFhsEvwxWad2Rj7900031.oAEd1BlDYJ-vFuTRWBVO59P1mP8uhyo7bVirvoKMB6Y&dib_tag=se&keywords=Carapils&qid=1711412111&sprefix=carapils%2Caps%2C427&sr=8-3

thank you for the perfectly detailed explanation

 

Yes, it is, but that's about 2.3kgs, try & buy a smaller amount, maybe 1kg - that way you get 5 x brews out of it.

[Classic Brewing Co]

11 minutes ago, JohnnyHavana said:

one more question about bitterness scores.

the IBU bitterness scores are:

Lager -390

Mexican cervesa -325

European Lager - 340

Thomas family secret Amber ale -500

and Canadian Blonde - 420

So my thinking was that the bitterness would be lower on the Blonde, but its higher than all the others on this list aside from the Amber .

Maybe I should get the European Lager as that might be more like my target Mill St Organic beer.

is there any way to reduce the bitterness in a beer? 

and not really sure how much bitterness difference there is between a 420 vrs 340 .

I tried to find the IBU for the Mill St organic but no luck.

I am no expert on bitterness, but here is an article for you. @Shamus O'Sean would be my choice to ask on that subject.

How to Make Beer Less Bitter - Brew Gem

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, JohnnyHavana said:

one more question about bitterness scores.

the IBU bitterness scores are:

Lager -390

Mexican cervesa -325

European Lager - 340

Thomas family secret Amber ale -500

and Canadian Blonde - 420

So my thinking was that the bitterness would be lower on the Blonde, but its higher than all the others on this list aside from the Amber .

Maybe I should get the European Lager as that might be more like my target Mill St Organic beer.

is there any way to reduce the bitterness in a beer? 

and not really sure how much bitterness difference there is between a 420 vrs 340 .

I tried to find the IBU for the Mill St organic but no luck.

The values above are not the final bitterness of the beers.  Here's something from the Coopers website about how to calculate the final bitterness of your brews:

How is bitterness calculated?
The figures we quote for bitterness (IBU - International Bitterness Units) are specified for the product inside the can at the time of packaging. Of course, the product is concentrated, hence the seemingly high figures! Use the following formula to estimate a more realistic bitterness figure of the reconstituted and fermented brew.

To calculate the bitterness of the brew: Multiply the quoted product bitterness by the weight of the product (1.7kg) and divide by the total brew volume (normally 23 litres). We use the weight because our quoted colour/bitterness figures are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution.

Product bitterness x 1.7 / Brew volume = Brew Bitterness before fermentation

As an example, if a brew is made with Mexican Cerveza up to a volume of 23 litres: 325 x 1.7 / 23 = 24 IBU (International Bitterness Units)

This figure represents the brew bitterness prior to fermentation. Generally, fermentation reduces bitterness by between 10% to 30%. So final bitterness of the fermented brew may be anything from 17 to 22 IBU.

If you thought the Lager was bitter to your tastes, you will also probably find the Canadian Blonde bitter.  I liked the bitterness of the Canadian Blonde, but that is my tastes.

Kit beers are a known fixed bitterness.  As you might figure out from the formula above, a way to reduce the bitterness is to dilute with more water.  The downside of that method is you will also reduce the percentage of alcohol in the brew.  Reducing the ABV can also have the effect of increasing the relative bitterness of a brew because a beer's bitterness is balanced by the amount of fermentables in the brew.  You can compensate for that by adding some extra fermentables (Brew Enhancer, Dextrose, etc).  So your beer ends up being the same ABV as originally intended, but has a little less bitterness and will seem to taste smoother.

[Malter White]

On 3/21/2024 at 12:39 AM, ChairmanDrew said:

 

I'm yet to really delve into yeast, but in my limited experience yeast choice has less impact on your final product than other core ingredients, like malts and hops (unless you are requiring a brew specific yeast, like for eg. lager or sour, etc.).

While there's nothing wrong with the kit yeasts the type of yeast used can have a huge bearing on the final outcome. Different yeasts can change the whole complexion of a beer.

[JohnnyHavana]

12 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I am no expert on bitterness, but here is an article for you. @Shamus O'Sean would be my choice to ask on that subject.

How to Make Beer Less Bitter - Brew Gem

Thank you

 

[JohnnyHavana]

3 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

The values above are not the final bitterness of the beers.  Here's something from the Coopers website about how to calculate the final bitterness of your brews:

How is bitterness calculated?
The figures we quote for bitterness (IBU - International Bitterness Units) are specified for the product inside the can at the time of packaging. Of course, the product is concentrated, hence the seemingly high figures! Use the following formula to estimate a more realistic bitterness figure of the reconstituted and fermented brew.

To calculate the bitterness of the brew: Multiply the quoted product bitterness by the weight of the product (1.7kg) and divide by the total brew volume (normally 23 litres). We use the weight because our quoted colour/bitterness figures are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution.

Product bitterness x 1.7 / Brew volume = Brew Bitterness before fermentation

As an example, if a brew is made with Mexican Cerveza up to a volume of 23 litres: 325 x 1.7 / 23 = 24 IBU (International Bitterness Units)

This figure represents the brew bitterness prior to fermentation. Generally, fermentation reduces bitterness by between 10% to 30%. So final bitterness of the fermented brew may be anything from 17 to 22 IBU.

If you thought the Lager was bitter to your tastes, you will also probably find the Canadian Blonde bitter.  I liked the bitterness of the Canadian Blonde, but that is my tastes.

Kit beers are a known fixed bitterness.  As you might figure out from the formula above, a way to reduce the bitterness is to dilute with more water.  The downside of that method is you will also reduce the percentage of alcohol in the brew.  Reducing the ABV can also have the effect of increasing the relative bitterness of a brew because a beer's bitterness is balanced by the amount of fermentables in the brew.  You can compensate for that by adding some extra fermentables (Brew Enhancer, Dextrose, etc).  So your beer ends up being the same ABV as originally intended, but has a little less bitterness and will seem to taste smoother.

Thank you @Shamus O'Sean awesome information, really helps me understand the bitterness part of all of this. 

My first lager brew after 4 weeks is a bit bitter, i can and WILL drink it, but also wondered ( and you answered) aging it another monthish will probably drop that a bit more so I'll keep notes on it for my own tastes, but thank you for the info. Cheers