Coopers International Series...

[ChairmanDrew]

In my local supermarket the regular cans sell for $15.50 NZD. The Mexican Cerveza, European Lager are $20 (and also the Pale Ale, which I would have thought was in the basic range).

I'm wondering why there is a price difference for these cans, what is the premium you are paying for?

Not to open up any old wounds (I've read Malter's thread on the Euro lager yeast), but I just bought a European Lager that was discounted because the can was a bit bashed up. Looking at the yeast, it looks like the same 7g generic stuff that comes with any of the other cheaper ones . So, is there a difference in any of the other ingredients to charge a premium for?

[Shamus O'Sean]

18 minutes ago, ChairmanDrew said:

In my local supermarket the regular cans sell for $15.50 NZD. The Mexican Cerveza, European Lager are $20 (and also the Pale Ale, which I would have thought was in the basic range).

I'm wondering why there is a price difference for these cans, what is the premium you are paying for?

Not to open up any old wounds (I've read Malter's thread on the Euro lager yeast), but I just bought a European Lager that was discounted because the can was a bit bashed up. Looking at the yeast, it looks like the same 7g generic stuff that comes with any of the other cheaper ones . So, is there a difference in any of the other ingredients to charge a premium for?

The Pale Ale is in the International Range.

The Original Series cans all have the same yeast.  It is cheaper to keep lots of the same yeast stocked instead of a variety.  The International and Thomas Coopers range have a few different yeasts across the range. 

The OS range are all bittered with Pride of Ringwood hops.  Again it is cheaper to just use tons of one type of hop.  Although many of the International range are also bittered with PoR, some have late additions of other hops.

Some grains are also more expensive than others.  Plus if a brew uses specialty grains, they are more expensive again.

I think the European Lager is now supplied with the same hybrid yeast as the Aust Pale Ale and the Mexican Cerveza.  But if the Euro can you got is pretty old, it might be the original lager yeast.  The yeast code is usually printed on the sachet.  Something like R1234.  One of the team here will have the list of which yeast is which.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

If it's old enough to have the original Lager yeast you would be better off using a fresh yeast.

The premium kits are a little nicer and worth the few extra dollars. But yes if brewing the Euro Lager you will now need to fork out again for good yeast.

[ChairmanDrew]

Thanks for the responses. So, basically it's a combination of factors. I'm glad to hear particularly that hops are changed up a bit.

The yeast for my Euro Lager is R3422. And I just noticed the BB on the bottom of the can is last month I don't know how long they had it knocking around the storeroom, I thought it seemed like the turnover of these products was reasonably fast (unless they are just taking them off the shelf as they reach the BB and replenishing them with fresh ones, IDK).

Looks like I'll have to look at using this one up reasonably soon.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by ChairmanDrew

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

4 minutes ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Thanks for the responses. So, basically it's a combination of factors. I'm glad to hear particularly that hops are changed up a bit.

The yeast for my Euro Lager is R3422. An I just noticed the BB on the bottom of the can is last month I don't know how long they had it knocking around the storeroom, I thought it seemed like the turnover of these products was reasonably fast (unless they are just taking off the shelf as they reach the BB and replenishing them with fresh ones, IDK).

Looks like I'll have to look at using this one up reasonably soon.

 

that is the proper lager yeast but given when they started rolling out the new cans with hybrid yeast I would not be using it. 

Buy fresh yeast and expect the brew to be a little darker than usual and probably less bitter.

[Kegory]

The yeasts have a packaging date.

The Mr Beer yeast on the left is dated 27821, or 27 August 2021, and the Cooper's generic yeast on the right is dated 06822, or 6 August 2022.

From what I have read several times in different places dried yeast are considered good for two years. They may still be viable after two years but the common wisdom seems to be to make a starter with them to be sure if they are more than two years older.

I'm a noob so I can't confirm or deny any of that. I'm content to work within those parameters for the time being.

 

[ChairmanDrew]

43 minutes ago, Kegory said:

The yeasts have a packaging date.

The Mr Beer yeast on the left is dated 27821, or 27 August 2021, and the Cooper's generic yeast on the right is dated 06822, or 6 August 2022.

From what I have read several times in different places dried yeast are considered good for two years. They may still be viable after two years but the common wisdom seems to be to make a starter with them to be sure if they are more than two years older.

I'm a noob so I can't confirm or deny any of that. I'm content to work within those parameters for the time being.

 

Mine's 09021, so I don't know what month 0 is

[Shamus O'Sean]

@Kegory and @ChairmanDrew, the packaging date XXXYY refers to the XXXth day of YY year.  

So 

• 27821 is the 278th day of 2021 or 5 October 2021
• 06822 is the 68th day of 2022 or 9 March 2022; and
• 09021 is the 90th day of 2021 or 31 March 2021

For the European Lager either make a starter or get a fresh yeast.  Dubbya (SafLager W-34/70) would go well.

[Kegory]

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean

[ChairmanDrew]

So I put this in the fermentor last night. Pitched yeast at somewhere around 18 degrees. Looks like it's now sitting at about 12 degrees.

It's my first time lagering, so what should I expect? I'm guessing the airlock will not be bubbling as furiously as it normally would with an ale yeast at a higher temperature.

[Shamus O'Sean]

7 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

So I put this in the fermentor last night. Pitched yeast at somewhere around 18 degrees. Looks like it's now sitting at about 12 degrees.

It's my first time lagering, so what should I expect? I'm guessing the airlock will not be bubbling as furiously as it normally would with an ale yeast at a higher temperature.

I have never brewed with an airlock, so I do not know for sure.  However, it makes sense that it would be slower as a lager yeast at cool temperature takes longer to ferment than an ale yeast.  Lager Krausens seem to be less vigorous in my experience too.  That also points to a slower production of CO2 bubbles.

[Brauhaus Fritz]

15 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

So I put this in the fermentor last night. Pitched yeast at somewhere around 18 degrees. Looks like it's now sitting at about 12 degrees.

It's my first time lagering, so what should I expect? I'm guessing the airlock will not be bubbling as furiously as it normally would with an ale yeast at a higher temperature.

I had lot's of brews where the airlock didn't bubble at all, like in the Marzen that I will bottle today.

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 hours ago, Brauhaus Fritz said:

I had lot's of brews where the airlock didn't bubble at all, like in the Marzen that I will bottle today.

That happens a lot & doesn't even matter, in fact some guys don't even use them, they just tape over the hole.

My last 2 AG brews had no Airlock action & they were fine.

[ChairmanDrew]

Just went down to the the garage and the lager is slowly bubbling away (if you've never used an airlock, I recommend it purely for that satisfying bubble bobble sound it makes to let you know ITS ALIVE ).

[Kegory]

8 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Just went down to the the garage and the lager is slowly bubbling away (if you've never used an airlock, I recommend it purely for that satisfying bubble bobble sound it makes to let you know ITS ALIVE ).

I have an old fermenter with an airlock that a friend donated to me. It sat in their rat ridden shed for a decade so after I've bleached the living daylights out of it I'll give it a try, just for the experience. After that I think I'll switch to the blow off tube method. I assume the tube will produce the same satisfying bubbling.

[ChairmanDrew]

Randomly my local supermarket is selling more clearance European lager with the R3422 yeast. This yeast is almost exactly 2 years old, BB on the can 01/07/23. But this time I got it for only $8.50 NZD, down from the regular $20. Looks like I'll be experimenting with this one a few more times

 

My current European lager has been fermenting for close to two weeks now, so I'll be putting something in for a dry hop probably tomorrow. Might try 25g of Wai iti and see how that goes.

[Kegory]

58 minutes ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Randomly my local supermarket is selling more clearance European lager with the R3422 yeast. This yeast is almost exactly 2 years old, BB on the can 01/07/23. But this time I got it for only $8.50 NZD, down from the regular $20. Looks like I'll be experimenting with this one a few more times

 

My current European lager has been fermenting for close to two weeks now, so I'll be putting something in for a dry hop probably tomorrow. Might try 25g of Wai iti and see how that goes.

Two weeks?

Most dry Hop before fermentation has finished to avoid oxidization. Some use a magnet for dry hopping to give more protection from oxygen.

[ChairmanDrew]

31 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Two weeks?

Most dry Hop before fermentation has finished to avoid oxidization. Some use a magnet for dry hopping to give more protection from oxygen.

Well, its been 10 days. So I better get onto it tomorrow. EDIT: In fact, I'll do it now.

Edited June 25, 2023 by ChairmanDrew