Shamus O'Sean Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Break Time Choc Stout - September 2022 Craft Recipe of the Month in pdf format for those outside of Australia to be able to see the recipe in perpetuity. Also click on the recipe name in red to see the recipe on the Coopers website. Break Time Choc Stout.pdf 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeB7 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 I'm ripping off some of this recipe for a 23ltr ferment. 1x Mr Beer amber can 1x Coopers DLM can 100gr biscuit malt 50gr Fuggles Morgans ale yeast When to add the cacao nibs? By day of ferment or by gravity? OG 1.044... 22-23° ferment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 21 hours ago, JoeB7 said: I'm ripping off some of this recipe for a 23ltr ferment. 1x Mr Beer amber can 1x Coopers DLM can 100gr biscuit malt 50gr Fuggles Morgans ale yeast When to add the cacao nibs? By day of ferment or by gravity? OG 1.044... 22-23° ferment The original recipe says "about day 5 once the foam subsides". Even for a 23 litre batch, this would be the same. You could go by days. Otherwise day 5 would be toward the end of fermentations. So probably when SG drops below 1.020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 This recipe calls for a hot steep of the chocolate and victory malts. Won't that draw out the astringency from the chocolate malt? I've looked at several similar recipes, Chai Latte Stout, Choc Hazelnut Stout, Chocapotamus Stout, Laneway Latte Stout, and Really Satisfies Stout. They all call for an overnight cold steep. The recipe description mentions the toffee sweetness. Won't the astringency from the hot steep nullify that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Kegory said: This recipe calls for a hot steep of the chocolate and victory malts. Won't that draw out the astringency from the chocolate malt? I've looked at several similar recipes, Chai Latte Stout, Choc Hazelnut Stout, Chocapotamus Stout, Laneway Latte Stout, and Really Satisfies Stout. They all call for an overnight cold steep. The recipe description mentions the toffee sweetness. Won't the astringency from the hot steep nullify that? I made the Island Toasted Coconut Porter ages ago. It has a hot steep of Chocolate and Dark Crystal Malts. I do not remember it being astringent. In fact it was one of my best beers. It was like drinking liquid coconut rum balls. You could always do a cold steep instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Thanks @Shamus O'Sean I'm just trying to understand the process. There's so much information to absorb. I thought cold steeping dark malts was to minimize astringency, and the recipes that I've looked at seemed to back that up until this one went the other way with a hot steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Kegory said: Thanks @Shamus O'Sean I'm just trying to understand the process. There's so much information to absorb. I thought cold steeping dark malts was to minimize astringency, and the recipes that I've looked at seemed to back that up until this one went the other way with a hot steep. You are probably correct that cold steeping dark malts is to minimise astringency. Hot steeping will not ruin a beer though. With most people's all grain brewing the dark grains are in the hot mash with the rest of the grains. Some folks hold off adding the roasted grains until late in the mash to minimise astringency. I have also heard of cold steeping dark grains separate to the mash and adding the liquid just before the boil. Although I have never done a side-by-side test, I imagine that a brew with cold steeped dark grains would be smoother than one with hot steeped dark grains. Cold/hot steeping is just another variable in making beer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Thanks @Shamus O'Sean Looking more closely at the ingredients in the recipes some have 100g of chocolate malt like this one and others have 250g. Some have 100g of roast barley and others don't. Some have cacao nibs, some have lactose, some have other adjuncts. The one ingredient this recipe has that sets it apart from the others is victory malt. That leads me to think that the reason this one has a hot steep and the others have a cold steep is more related to extracting the flavours from the victory malt than any other factor. Does that sound right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Kegory said: Thanks @Shamus O'Sean Looking more closely at the ingredients in the recipes some have 100g of chocolate malt like this one and others have 250g. Some have 100g of roast barley and others don't. Some have cacao nibs, some have lactose, some have other adjuncts. The one ingredient this recipe has that sets it apart from the others is victory malt. That leads me to think that the reason this one has a hot steep and the others have a cold steep is more related to extracting the flavours from the victory malt than any other factor. Does that sound right? I think you are spot on. I do not know much about Victory Malt other than what is says on the internets. It seems like a special malt like Crystal/Caramel. They almost all feature in a hot steep. The hot steep probably extracts the flavours you want from the Victory Malt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Kegory said: Thanks @Shamus O'Sean Looking more closely at the ingredients in the recipes some have 100g of chocolate malt like this one and others have 250g. Some have 100g of roast barley and others don't. Some have cacao nibs, some have lactose, some have other adjuncts. The one ingredient this recipe has that sets it apart from the others is victory malt. That leads me to think that the reason this one has a hot steep and the others have a cold steep is more related to extracting the flavours from the victory malt than any other factor. Does that sound right? Well spotted Mr Kegory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I have found a series of articles on BeerSmith relating astringency from steeping grains. https://beersmith.com/blog/2009/03/22/steeping-grains-for-extract-beer-brewing/ https://beersmith.com/blog/2017/02/28/extract-beer-brewing-tip-dont-steep-grains-with-too-much-water/ https://beersmith.com/blog/2016/07/01/astringency-when-steeping-grains-for-malt-extract-beer-brewing/ Apparently steeping too hot, too long, or in too much water will lead to extraction of tannins causing astringency. One of the articles recommends a water to grain ratio of no more than 8l/kg while the other says no more than 4l/kg. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in I have questions like: Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or Do I really need to steep in that much water, or Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally, Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have… So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed. Cheers Vince 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 3 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said: Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in I have questions like: Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or Do I really need to steep in that much water, or Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally, Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have… So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed. Cheers Vince 1) I got no idea 2) I steep 200 to 250 grams in 2 litres of water 3) Because I only use 2 litres of water I don't cool it I tip it in the FV and mix everything with it 4) I squeeze the bag a bit but not too much 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Thanks @Back Brewing, your methods described above are exactly what I currently do as well. - None of my beers have been a failure, but I know I could do with some more schooling on this topic. I’ve been meaning to spend some time trailing the web to see what info I can find on these topics to do with best additional grains management practices and an understanding of do’s ‘N don’ts and why. If I find anything worthwhile I’ll post it for all. Thanks ! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said: Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in I have questions like: Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or Do I really need to steep in that much water, or Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally, Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have… So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed. Cheers Vince Just a very gentle squeeze otherwise, IIRC, you risk extracting tannins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said: Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in I have questions like: Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or Do I really need to steep in that much water, or Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally, Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have… So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed. Cheers Vince I usually steep my grain bag about 200gms in a large Pyrex jug & then cool it in a sink of cold water until it reaches pitching temperature of 24c-25c I do squeeze the bag a few times just to get a bit more goodness. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said: Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, This might be when you are also boiling some hops for a little bit more bitterness. Supposedly bitterness extraction is more efficient in wort compared to water. I guess, although you get some sugars from the grain steep, it is not sugary enough. Therefore some extra LME is added to boost the specific gravity up to ideal hop extraction amounts. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Kegory said: Just a very gentle squeeze otherwise, IIRC, you risk extracting tannins. Yep, got it thanks @Kegory I think I also need to get an index of acronyms to keep up with you guys IIRC ? (I thought FWK was a reference to a swear word there for a while ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said: I usually steep my grain bag about 200gms in a large Pyrex jug & then cool it in a sink of cold water until it reaches pitching temperature of 24c-25c I do squeeze the bag a few times just to get a bit more goodness. Roger that, so in about 2 litres of water eh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said: This might be when you are also boiling some hops for a little bit more bitterness. Supposedly bitterness extraction is more efficient in wort compared to water. I guess, although you get some sugars from the grain steep, it is not sugary enough. Therefore some extra LME is added to boost the specific gravity up to ideal hop extraction amounts. Arrrrr now that makes sense - thanks @Shamus O'Sean Really appreciate the info and responses of this forum - Great to be building some knowledge in this space 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 26 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said: Roger that, so in about 2 litres of water eh Yeah, that's enough, it depends on the amount of grain in the muslin cloth. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said: Yep, got it thanks @Kegory I think I also need to get an index of acronyms to keep up with you guys IIRC ? (I thought FWK was a reference to a swear word there for a while ) If I Recall Correctly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said: Roger that, so in about 2 litres of water eh If your only using 2 litres of water like I do there is no need to cool it Just put it in the FV and that is your hot liquid to dissolve all the ingredients another tip put your LDME in first pour the liquid in and pick the FV up and swirl around this dissolves it quickly Edited September 1, 2023 by Back Brewing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, Kegory said: If I Recall Correctly WOOH _ would have never guessed that one - Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple B Brewing Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Back Brewing said: If your only using 2 litres of water like I do there is no need to cool it Just put it in the FV and that is your hot liquid to dissolve all the ingredients another tip put your LDME in first pour the liquid in and pick the FV up and swirl around this dissolves it quickly Yep thanks @Back Brewing that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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