Break Time Choc Stout - September 2022 Craft Recipe of the Month

[Shamus O'Sean]

Break Time Choc Stout - September 2022 Craft Recipe of the Month in pdf format for those outside of Australia to be able to see the recipe in perpetuity.  Also click on the recipe name in red to see the recipe on the Coopers website.

Break Time Choc Stout.pdf

[JoeB7]

I'm ripping off some of this recipe for a 23ltr ferment.

1x Mr Beer amber can

1x Coopers DLM can

100gr biscuit malt

50gr Fuggles

Morgans ale yeast 

When to add the cacao nibs? By day of ferment or by gravity? OG 1.044... 22-23° ferment

 

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

21 hours ago, JoeB7 said:

I'm ripping off some of this recipe for a 23ltr ferment.

1x Mr Beer amber can

1x Coopers DLM can

100gr biscuit malt

50gr Fuggles

Morgans ale yeast 

When to add the cacao nibs? By day of ferment or by gravity? OG 1.044... 22-23° ferment

 

 

The original recipe says "about day 5 once the foam subsides".  Even for a 23 litre batch, this would be the same.  You could go by days.  Otherwise day 5 would be toward the end of fermentations.  So probably when SG drops below 1.020

[Kegory]

This recipe calls for a hot steep of the chocolate and victory malts. Won't that draw out the astringency from the chocolate malt?

I've looked at several similar recipes, Chai Latte Stout, Choc Hazelnut Stout, Chocapotamus Stout, Laneway Latte Stout, and Really Satisfies Stout. They all call for an overnight cold steep.

The recipe description mentions the toffee sweetness. Won't the astringency from the hot steep nullify that?

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, Kegory said:

This recipe calls for a hot steep of the chocolate and victory malts. Won't that draw out the astringency from the chocolate malt?

I've looked at several similar recipes, Chai Latte Stout, Choc Hazelnut Stout, Chocapotamus Stout, Laneway Latte Stout, and Really Satisfies Stout. They all call for an overnight cold steep.

The recipe description mentions the toffee sweetness. Won't the astringency from the hot steep nullify that?

I made the Island Toasted Coconut Porter ages ago.  It has a hot steep of Chocolate and Dark Crystal Malts.  I do not remember it being astringent.  In fact it was one of my best beers.  It was like drinking liquid coconut rum balls.

You could always do a cold steep instead.

[Kegory]

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean

I'm just trying to understand the process. There's so much information to absorb. I thought cold steeping dark malts was to minimize astringency, and the recipes that I've looked at seemed to back that up until this one went the other way with a hot steep.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, Kegory said:

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean

I'm just trying to understand the process. There's so much information to absorb. I thought cold steeping dark malts was to minimize astringency, and the recipes that I've looked at seemed to back that up until this one went the other way with a hot steep.

You are probably correct that cold steeping dark malts is to minimise astringency.  Hot steeping will not ruin a beer though.  With most people's all grain brewing the dark grains are in the hot mash with the rest of the grains.  Some folks hold off adding the roasted grains until late in the mash to minimise astringency.  I have also heard of cold steeping dark grains separate to the mash and adding the liquid just before the boil.  Although I have never done a side-by-side test, I imagine that a brew with cold steeped dark grains would be smoother than one with hot steeped dark grains.  Cold/hot steeping is just another variable in making beer.

[Kegory]

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean

Looking more closely at the ingredients in the recipes some have 100g of chocolate malt like this one and others have 250g. Some have 100g of roast barley and others don't. Some have cacao nibs, some have lactose, some have other adjuncts.

The one ingredient this recipe has that sets it apart from the others is victory malt. That leads me to think that the reason this one has a hot steep and the others have a cold steep is more related to extracting the flavours from the victory malt than any other factor. Does that sound right?

[Shamus O'Sean]

11 hours ago, Kegory said:

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean

Looking more closely at the ingredients in the recipes some have 100g of chocolate malt like this one and others have 250g. Some have 100g of roast barley and others don't. Some have cacao nibs, some have lactose, some have other adjuncts.

The one ingredient this recipe has that sets it apart from the others is victory malt. That leads me to think that the reason this one has a hot steep and the others have a cold steep is more related to extracting the flavours from the victory malt than any other factor. Does that sound right?

I think you are spot on.  I do not know much about Victory Malt other than what is says on the internets.  It seems like a special malt like Crystal/Caramel.  They almost all feature in a hot steep.  The hot steep probably extracts the flavours you want from the Victory Malt.

[Back Brewing]

11 hours ago, Kegory said:

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean

Looking more closely at the ingredients in the recipes some have 100g of chocolate malt like this one and others have 250g. Some have 100g of roast barley and others don't. Some have cacao nibs, some have lactose, some have other adjuncts.

The one ingredient this recipe has that sets it apart from the others is victory malt. That leads me to think that the reason this one has a hot steep and the others have a cold steep is more related to extracting the flavours from the victory malt than any other factor. Does that sound right?

Well spotted Mr Kegory

[Kegory]

I have found a series of articles on BeerSmith relating astringency from steeping grains.

https://beersmith.com/blog/2009/03/22/steeping-grains-for-extract-beer-brewing/

https://beersmith.com/blog/2017/02/28/extract-beer-brewing-tip-dont-steep-grains-with-too-much-water/

https://beersmith.com/blog/2016/07/01/astringency-when-steeping-grains-for-malt-extract-beer-brewing/

Apparently steeping too hot, too long, or in too much water will lead to extraction of tannins causing astringency. One of the articles recommends a water to grain ratio of no more than 8l/kg while the other says no more than 4l/kg.

 

[Triple B Brewing]

Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in

I have questions like:

• Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or
• Do I really need to steep in that much water, or
• Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally,
• Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have…

So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed.
Cheers

Vince

[Back Brewing]

3 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in

I have questions like:

• Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or
• Do I really need to steep in that much water, or
• Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally,
• Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have…

So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed.
Cheers

Vince

1) I got no idea 

2) I steep 200 to 250 grams in 2 litres of water

3) Because I only use 2 litres of water I don't cool it I tip it in the FV and mix everything with it 

4) I squeeze the bag a bit but not too much

[Triple B Brewing]

Thanks @Back Brewing,  your methods described above are exactly what I currently do as well. - None of my beers have been a failure, but I know I could do with some more schooling on this topic.

I’ve been meaning to spend some time trailing the web to see what info I can find on these topics to do with best additional grains management practices and an understanding of do’s ‘N don’ts and why. 
If I find anything worthwhile I’ll post it for all. 
Thanks !

[Kegory]

18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in

I have questions like:

• Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or
• Do I really need to steep in that much water, or
• Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally,
• Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have…

So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed.
Cheers

Vince

Just a very gentle squeeze otherwise, IIRC, you risk extracting tannins.

[Classic Brewing Co]

18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Thanks for this post @Kegory it’s well timed for me as I have been wondering if I am handling and preparing my additional grains in my brews correctly - it’s an area I feel I need a lot more knowledge in

I have questions like:

• Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor, or
• Do I really need to steep in that much water, or
• Is cooling the boiled steeped grain liquor a critical step, or is it just to help get the wort down to yeast pitching temperature, and finally,
• Should I squeeze the bag of grains (during a boil or at the end) to get all that grain goodness out, or is that a no, no - these are just some of the questions I have…

So any further reference material from yourself or the site in general would be very welcomed.
Cheers

Vince

I usually steep my grain bag about 200gms in a large Pyrex jug & then cool it in a sink of cold water until it reaches pitching temperature of 24c-25c

I do squeeze the bag a few times just to get a bit more goodness.

[Shamus O'Sean]

18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Why do some recipes call for adding some LME to steeped grain liquor as part of a sterilisation boil or the steeped grain liquor,

This might be when you are also boiling some hops for a little bit more bitterness.  Supposedly bitterness extraction is more efficient in wort compared to water.  I guess, although you get some sugars from the grain steep, it is not sugary enough.  Therefore some extra LME is added to boost the specific gravity up to ideal hop extraction amounts.

[Triple B Brewing]

3 hours ago, Kegory said:

Just a very gentle squeeze otherwise, IIRC, you risk extracting tannins.

Yep, got it thanks @Kegory 

I think I also need to get an index of acronyms to keep up with you guys IIRC ? (I thought FWK was a reference to a swear word there for a while )

[Triple B Brewing]

3 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I usually steep my grain bag about 200gms in a large Pyrex jug & then cool it in a sink of cold water until it reaches pitching temperature of 24c-25c

I do squeeze the bag a few times just to get a bit more goodness.

Roger that, so in about 2 litres of water eh

[Triple B Brewing]

3 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

This might be when you are also boiling some hops for a little bit more bitterness.  Supposedly bitterness extraction is more efficient in wort compared to water.  I guess, although you get some sugars from the grain steep, it is not sugary enough.  Therefore some extra LME is added to boost the specific gravity up to ideal hop extraction amounts.

Arrrrr now that makes sense - thanks @Shamus O'Sean

Really appreciate the info and responses of this forum - Great to be building some knowledge in this space

[Classic Brewing Co]

26 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Roger that, so in about 2 litres of water eh

Yeah, that's enough, it depends on the amount of grain in the muslin cloth.

 

[Kegory]

33 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Yep, got it thanks @Kegory 

I think I also need to get an index of acronyms to keep up with you guys IIRC ? (I thought FWK was a reference to a swear word there for a while )

If I Recall Correctly

[Back Brewing]

35 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Roger that, so in about 2 litres of water eh

If your only using 2 litres of water like I do there is no need to cool it 

Just put it in the FV and that is your hot liquid to dissolve all the ingredients another tip put your LDME in first pour the liquid in and pick the FV up and swirl around this dissolves it quickly

Edited September 1, 2023 by Back Brewing

[Triple B Brewing]

11 minutes ago, Kegory said:

If I Recall Correctly

WOOH _ would have never guessed that one  - Thanks 

[Triple B Brewing]

9 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

If your only using 2 litres of water like I do there is no need to cool it 

Just put it in the FV and that is your hot liquid to dissolve all the ingredients another tip put your LDME in first pour the liquid in and pick the FV up and swirl around this dissolves it quickly

Yep thanks @Back Brewing that makes sense