Bottling from a Pressure Fermenter

[stquinto]

G'day fellow brewers,

I fancied trying out pressure fermenting and got a Keg King Junior and also a Fermzilla 30 l fermenter.

I've got a Duvel clone in the KKJ: it ended up 12 litres and it is currently in the fridge cold crashing. The recipe calls for 3 weeks at around zero degrees. It would make sense to transfer it to a 10 litre keg straight afterwards but as it is supposed to mature for a few weeks, months even, I am tempted to bottle.

I know it pretty much defeats the object of pressure fermenting by bottling it, but has anyone tried bottling from the pressure fermenter ? I am assuming that you just siphon it out into a clean FW and bottle as usual. 

Possibly not the best brew to make first but I only have one fridge and at least I can fit the FFJ with one cornie. I would rather have a load of bottles maturing that I can try now and then than have a dedicated 10 l keg of it blocking up a space in the fridge.

Any thoughts ?

Edited December 8, 2021 by stquinto

[ozdevil]

2 hours ago, stquinto said:

G'day fellow brewers,

I fancied trying out pressure fermenting and got a Keg King Junior and also a Fermzilla 30 l fermenter.

I've got a Duvel clone in the KKJ: it ended up 12 litres and it is currently in the fridge cold crashing. The recipe calls for 3 weeks at around zero degrees. It would make sense to transfer it to a 10 litre keg straight afterwards but as it is supposed to mature for a few weeks, months even, I am tempted to bottle.

I know it pretty much defeats the object of pressure fermenting by bottling it, but has anyone tried bottling from the pressure fermenter ? I am assuming that you just siphon it out into a clean FW and bottle as usual. 

Possibly not the best brew to make first but I only have one fridge and at least I can fit the FFJ with one cornie. I would rather have a load of bottles maturing that I can try now and then than have a dedicated 10 l keg of it blocking up a space in the fridge.

Any thoughts ?

yes

there is 2 ways you can do this

1 prime all your bottles first with ya priming sugar   connect a counter pressure bottle filler  + co2 and fill ya bottle this way cap and give a shake like you do when normally conditioning your bottles

2.  carbonate in fermenter  and use a counter pressure bottle filler  + co2  and fill bottle and cap   (no need to add priming sugar as you have carbonated beer already


This is what i  have used in the past and present 



the cheapest   and was very good  , i know longer have this and passed it on to @Aussiekraut  



this one was middle of the range at $100   and worked a treat   and no longer have this  one as i  passed this one on to @Journeyman
also  kegland  brought out there version of this and is 1/2 the price




This is the dearest one  the boel itap  in which i have  and is very good and alot more easier to use  then the others and less messier and more controllable
this can do both bottles and Pet bottles  also another advantage of this is it can also be used as another tap with the right fitting

This one has to be mounted in some form i chose to mount it on a bottle capper (more portabile)    or you can mount on a shelf or  mount it to  fridge or keezer or kegerator  


all three could be used  to bottle beer from your fermenters   
 

[stquinto]

Appreciate that @ozdevil mate

I’ll look into one of those gizmos - my LHBS has some. But essentially you bottle from the keg and maintain the pressure

[ozdevil]

7 hours ago, stquinto said:

Appreciate that @ozdevil mate

I’ll look into one of those gizmos - my LHBS has some. But essentially you bottle from the keg and maintain the pressure

yes  i bottle from the keg and maintain pressure

you would do the same using your keg king fermenter as well 

basicly you will need a second gas line into all three devices  as well

[iBooz2]

@stquinto , I bottle from my pressure fermenters all the time, every batch in fact and have none of those gizmos as they are not required. 

Keep it simple and cheap I say.  All you need is a beer disconnect, some line and a tap – refer to my pic.

Make sure the beer is cold say 2 C and the pressure in the FV is down to about 7.5 - 5 psi or so, just enough to push your quantity of beer out and into the bottles.

With the tap closed just feed the sanitised line right to the bottom of the bottle and slowly fill it with beer, close tap then withdraw it like you would a bottling wand.  Start the flow off slowly and you will get less foam.

Do NOT use a bottling wand itself as the pressure will just shoot the valve bit off the end and it will go into your bottle (or some deep dark corner of your brewery never to be seen again).

Do NOT add carb drops or sugar beforehand as this will make it foam up more.   Add carb sugar afterwards and cap immediately.

Remember the beer is already carbed up somewhat so adjust your carb drop / sugar priming to suit although I still use 1 x carb drop for a 345 ml stubbie and the Muzzy method V 1.0 for 740 ml PETS.

Simple is the best solution.

Edited December 8, 2021 by iBooz2

[stquinto]

On 12/8/2021 at 11:12 AM, ozdevil said:

This is what i  have used in the past and present 

Cheers for this @ozdevil, my HBS (not local as it comes from Germany) managed to get me one so I ordered it as I had other stuff to  order.

In the end though I decided to re-keg the lot. I filled a 5l keg and got about 7 litres in a 10l keg. Since I had spare kegs and I'd gone to the effort to pressure-ferment it I though I might as well stick with the pressure all the way through. Also I didn't want to "practise" with a new toy on a brew that was a bit particular.

I sampled a bit for the FG and to taste. Holy sh*t it was spot on ! The hop profile was perfect, very light colour too, like the original. All it needs is to clear.

I will deffo make this again. I would like to do a non-pressure version so I can bottle and therefore sample at different stages of the beer's development.

Having said that, as it had such a long CC there was hardly any yeast left over so I'm not sure if a secondary fermentation would give anything. I read somewhere that the brewers add more yeast with the sugar for the bottle conditioning. I'm not sure if my skills are up to that at this point. But the main reason I couldn't do a non-pressure fermentation is I only have one fridge, and I use it for kegs, as you can see form the photos. The 3 week CC is essential to this recipe

Got 4 jars of slurry too 

What's the best way  to get it to clear ? Leave the kegs outside the fridge for a cuppla weeks ? I didn't add sugar, I was going to carbonate from the bottle.

But thanks for all of your help @ozdevil and @iBooz2 - this looks like it'll be a magnificent brew 

Edited December 27, 2021 by stquinto
typo

[Gavin Trott]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:10 AM, iBooz2 said:

@stquinto , I bottle from my pressure fermenters all the time, every batch in fact and have none of those gizmos as they are not required. 

Keep it simple and cheap I say.  All you need is a beer disconnect, some line and a tap – refer to my pic.

Make sure the beer is cold say 2 C and the pressure in the FV is down to about 7.5 - 5 psi or so, just enough to push your quantity of beer out and into the bottles.

With the tap closed just feed the sanitised line right to the bottom of the bottle and slowly fill it with beer, close tap then withdraw it like you would a bottling wand.  Start the flow off slowly and you will get less foam.

Do NOT use a bottling wand itself as the pressure will just shoot the valve bit off the end and it will go into your bottle (or some deep dark corner of your brewery never to be seen again).

Do NOT add carb drops or sugar beforehand as this will make it foam up more.   Add carb sugar afterwards and cap immediately.

Remember the beer is already carbed up somewhat so adjust your carb drop / sugar priming to suit although I still use 1 x carb drop for a 345 ml stubbie and the Muzzy method V 1.0 for 740 ml PETS.

Simple is the best solution.

 

[Gavin Trott]

Great idea, like it. I prefer bottling into 500 ml swing top bottles, so obviously at 500 ml, more than a 750 ml, less than a 750 ml. If I use Carbonation drops, would I still use only one for the 500ml bottles, or two, or?

Beer fermented under pressure at 11-12 psi, fermentation now complete, and looking to bottle.

[Aussiekraut]

26 minutes ago, Gavin Trott said:

Great idea, like it. I prefer bottling into 500 ml swing top bottles, so obviously at 500 ml, more than a 750 ml, less than a 750 ml. If I use Carbonation drops, would I still use only one for the 500ml bottles, or two, or?

Beer fermented under pressure at 11-12 psi, fermentation now complete, and looking to bottle.

I never used that method and haven't bottled in a few years but since the beer is already carbonated to some extent, I'd use less priming sugar than you'd use in uncarbonated beer. I'd say one per 500ml bottle would probably be more than enough. If your beer is at 11-12PSI, the question is, do you actually need ANY priming sugars? 12PSI is perfectly fine serving pressure, depending on the length of the beer line and while you do lose some gas when bottling, I'd try first if it is sufficient and then decide if you need more sugar. You may need a lot less than 1 drop per 500ml bottle. I know it is hard to break the drops in two but maybe you can get a priming scoop and just use small amounts of dextrose, rather than use the drops. 

[ozdevil]

5 hours ago, Gavin Trott said:

Great idea, like it. I prefer bottling into 500 ml swing top bottles, so obviously at 500 ml, more than a 750 ml, less than a 750 ml. If I use Carbonation drops, would I still use only one for the 500ml bottles, or two, or?

Beer fermented under pressure at 11-12 psi, fermentation now complete, and looking to bottle.

if your brewing under pressure with co2   and brewing at 11-12 psi  and you have the ability to cold crash   to around 1-2°c  then ully carbonate the beer  ,  you could then actually then bottle from fermenter to bottle  by using a counter pressure bottle filler

what fermenter do you have that your pressure fermenting in??

1st picture is a nukatap counter pressure bottle filler for $50
 from kegland  (i have one of these)






2nd pic is Keg kings version  for $60  very same thing kegland has


 

 

3 Boel Itap   This is a bit more exspensive and you will need to purchase   other accessories for it



there is other cheap ways you can go about it but my  preference would be the  1st pic

using the counter pressure filler you will not have to use carb drops ( but the lifetime of the beer  may not last as long)
as your beer  will be carbonated

[Gavin Trott]

Fermented in a 30L Fermzilla.

[ozdevil]

3 hours ago, Gavin Trott said:

Fermented in a 30L Fermzilla.

perfect   do you have a working fridge for temp control   to fully carbonate  the wort   ?   and the oppurtunity to purchase a counter pressure bottle filler 

This is what i mean  in this video  except  Kee   is filling from a kegerotar but you will just  add a  disconnect  to a bit of tube  and attach to your  30l fermzilla   that has been cold crashed and carbonated fully    and is around 0-2°c    as Kee explains in the video  
 

This is  a pic   of my boel   itap    and yes sometimes i still use the nukatap   counter pressure filler



i mainly use the itap   if i am filling coopers plastic bottles   as using nukatap  on the plastic bottles  you could damage the bottle  while filling and the bottle splits then beer everywhere  and i can also use the boel itap as an extra beer tap  if i need to .    As you can see in the pic its attached to an old beer capper   i had   and i was kindly  donated another beer capper by journeyman from this forum  which i fixed up and use to cap my beers with.

dont worry about the sediment  if your  choose my method   you can stop filling ya carbonated bottles just before you reach the yeast cake   and carbonate bottles with out using carbonation drops or sugar of some sort

[Kegory]

It's a bit beyond my pay grade at the moment but there is a popular bottling method that doesn't use a counter pressure filler. It's easy to find, just google "we need no stinking beer gun" and you'll find plenty of discussion about it on various fora.

Here's a Brulosophy exbeeriment the Impact Flushing Bottles With CO2 Prior To Filling Has On A Cream Ale.

At one of my local breweries they do flush the 1 litre cans with CO2 prior to filling and capping. They still recommend consuming the product within a couple of weeks.