CIPA - Collaboration IPA

[iBooz2]

Going to try and come up with an AG version of the Coopers Kit & Kilo Australian IPA as the commercial canned version was well received and the K & K version looks like it is also a winner with those that have made it.  I could just make the K & K one but thought for a bit of fun and interest why don’t we all do a recipe together.
What I propose is a collaboration of our community brewers to fine tune a recipe that we will call the Collaboration IPA or CIPA for short.

From the information on the commercial can of Coopers Australian IPA we have the following info.
Coopers pale malt, Colour EBC=12. IBU=40, ABV=6.5%, uses Eclipse hops and Vic Secret Hops and fermented with the CCA yeast.

The K & K version for 23 Litres uses:
1 x 1.7 kg can of Coopers APA giving us OG=1.023 FG=1.006, EBC=6.7, IBU=18.4 and is bittered with PoR hops.
1 x 1.5 kg can Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract giving us OG=1.020 FG=1.005, EBC=3.1, IBU=0.0
500 g Dextrose giving us OG=1.008 FG=1.000, EBC=0.1, IBU=0.0
250 g Maltodextrin giving us OG=1.004 FG=1.000, EBC=0.1, IBU=0.0
250 g Light Dry Malt Extract giving us OG=1.004 FG=1.001, EBC=1.6, IBU=0.0
The last three entries being the equivalent to a 1 Kg pack of Coopers BE2.
250 g Light Crystal Malt grains steeped in 65 C water for 30” giving us OG=1.002 FG=1.000, EBC=5.9, IBU=0.0
40 g each of the Eclipse and Vic Secret Hops, 10 g each steeped for 30” and 30 g each dry hopped about day 3.

I will kick the collaboration off with my version of our CIPA as per below.  Anyone else want to contribute or offer suggestions?
 

Recipe: CIPA - Collaboration IPA
Brewer: Alicat
Asst Brewer: 
Style: English IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 32.00 L
Post Boil Volume: 24.50 L
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 L   
Bottling Volume: 19.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 12.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 41.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 71.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume        
3.00 kg          Pale Ale, Finest Maris Otter (Simpsons) (4.2 EBC Grain         1          52.2 %        1.96 L        
2.00 kg          Wheat Malt (Weyermann) (4.0 EBC)                 Grain         2          34.8 %        1.30 L        
0.25 kg          Crystal, Light (Simpsons) (88.0 EBC)             Grain         3          4.3 %         0.16 L        
11.00 g          Pride of Ringwood [10.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min      Hop           4          13.8 IBUs     -             
1.00 g           Whirlfloc Granulated (Boil 10.0 mins)            Fining        5          -             -             
5.00 g           Eclipse [17.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min                Hop           6          6.2 IBUs      -             
5.00 g           Vic Secret [15.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min             Hop           7          5.6 IBUs      -             
0.50 kg          Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil] [Boil for 10 min](0 Sugar         8          8.7 %         0.32 L        
10.00 g          Eclipse [17.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  30.0 min, 9 Hop           9          8.2 IBUs      -             
10.00 g          Vic Secret [15.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  30.0 min Hop           10         7.4 IBUs      -             
2.0 pkg          Coopers Cultivated from Commercial Beer (Coopers Yeast         11         -             -             
30.00 g          Eclipse [17.20 %] - 3.0 Days Into Primary for 0. Hop           12         0.0 IBUs      -             
30.00 g          Vic Secret [15.50 %] - 3.0 Days Into Primary for Hop           13         0.0 IBUs      -             


Mash Schedule: BIABasket, Full Body, High Wheat
Total Grain Weight: 5.75 kg
----------------------------
Name                    Description                           Step Temperature Step Time     
Mash Step               Add 35.21 L of water and heat to 68.9 68.9 C           60 min        
Mash Step               Heat to 75.6 C over 13 min            75.6 C           10 min        

Edited August 8, 2021 by iBooz2

[Shamus O'Sean]

Hi @iBooz2,

I like your thinking.  Good bit of fun.  My crack at the recipe is below.  I have gone for quite a bit less Wheat Malt because the Wheat Malt Extract is only about 50:50 Wheat:Pale.  Also getting most of the bittering from a larger 60 minute Pride of Ringwood hop boil.  Not sure when I will actually brew it.

[iBooz2]

G'day @Shamus O'Sean I am also thinking of creating a CIPA out of my Coopers Sparkling Ale clone recipe as its very similar and already has the PoR hops etc and it can be used as a base.  Just need to get my hands on some of the hops for the late editions.  Will post the recipe up later as its on another PC.

Also note your comments about the % of wheat as I did not do my research thoroughly enough on the can of liquid wheat malt so good pick up, thanks.

I like your idea of an acid rest in your mash at 52 C.  Do you think is helps get the PH down slightly more and also is 5" enough? 

Next time I do a mash of a recipe I have done before, will slip in an acid rest at about 50 C for 10' or so, just to see if the PH drops more with this rest as compared with records of previous batches.

Edited August 17, 2021 by iBooz2

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I like your idea of an acid rest in your mash at 52 C.  Do you think is helps get the PH down slightly more and also is 5" enough? 

Is that what an acid rest is supposed to do?  I just call it that.  The 5 minute time is when I think the mash is recirculated enough to take my first pH reading.  I just use it as a buffer to take my sample for my pH reading and hopefully have it right, before the proper mash heats up to 65°C and runs for an hour.  Previously, due to my loafing about, I found that starting mashes at 65°C, letting them circulated for a bit, taking a reading, and the time taken to cool, and then the time to take the actual reading, I was about 15 minutes into the mash.  I figured if the pH is off by then, what is the point in correcting it?

Although, I must say that since I have done this alleged acid rest, I have found that I have not needed as much lactic acid or Acidulated Malt to get to my desired pH (around 5.3) as Brewfather suggests.  So maybe my pseudo acid rest is achieving exactly that.

[iBooz2]

48 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Is that what an acid rest is supposed to do?  I just call it that.  The 5 minute time is when I think the mash is recirculated enough to take my first pH reading.  I just use it as a buffer to take my sample for my pH reading and hopefully have it right, before the proper mash heats up to 65°C and runs for an hour.  Previously, due to my loafing about, I found that starting mashes at 65°C, letting them circulated for a bit, taking a reading, and the time taken to cool, and then the time to take the actual reading, I was about 15 minutes into the mash.  I figured if the pH is off by then, what is the point in correcting it?

Although, I must say that since I have done this alleged acid rest, I have found that I have not needed as much lactic acid or Acidulated Malt to get to my desired pH (around 5.3) as Brewfather suggests.  So maybe my pseudo acid rest is achieving exactly that.

Yep I am going to add this rest to my mash schedule from now on because since I have read up on this it sounds like the little bit extra I need to try and nail this PH thing.

The acid rest temperature of around 30 - 50 C is ideal for growing lactobacilli bacteria which is commonly found on the coatings on the outside of base malts.  That’s sort of how Acidulated Malt is manufactured. 

It also furthers the production of phosphates from the malt phytin of which the malt is very rich with.  In the mash the phosphates react with the calcium and manganese in the brewing water to form insoluble phosphate compounds which releases two hydrogen ions in the process which in turn helps to lower the mash PH.

A normal acid rest is about 10 – 20 “ at 30 - 52 C.

I take my PH reading 15" into the mash and just hope I have got it right because as you say by the time you take a sample, allow it to cool, bump your mash temp up to 65 - 67 C or whatever the mash is all but done so trying to chase the PH down is a lost cause if its still too high as the horse has bolted.  I have taken PH readings at 15", 30", 45" and end of mash and found, with mine, the PH sneaks back up by 1 point or 2 nearing the end, i.e. 5.5 sneaks back to up 5.6 or 5.7

Edited August 17, 2021 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

Hopefully on Friday this week I will get my Eclipse hops so will do a 22 L AG batch of this CIPA over the weekend.  Looking forward to getting a different beer into my kegs for summer.

[iBooz2]

Finally got to have a go at this beer so here is my recipe.

CIPA – Collaboration IPA All Grain Recipe, just trying to replicate the Coopers Australian IPA.  Aiming for the same flavour, EBC of 12 and bitterness of 40 IBU, although I dropped the ABV slightly down from 6.6 to 6.2 % ABV

Batch # 67 - AG Batch #26

Volume: 22 L

Estimated specs:  OG = 1.060, FG = 1.013, ABV = 6.2%, EBC = 11.7, IBU = 39.6, BU:GU = 0.732

Grains: VIC Ale malt (BB) = 3.50 kg, Wheat malt (WEY) = 1.00 kg, Acidulated malt (WEY) = 0.20 kg, Caramunich II (WEY) 0.15 kg, Toffee malt (GLAD) 0.15 kg

Mash schedule: AR = 50 C for 10”, 69 C for 60”, MO = 78 C for 12” (4.0 ml Lactic Acid added to strike water)

Boil: 60”

Hops schedule: 20 g x PoR (8.50%) boil @ 60”, 12 g x Eclipse (18.70%) boil @ 5”, 12 g x Vic Secret (15.50%) boil @ 5”

White sugar added: 0.40 kg boiled @ 15”

Yeast nutrient: 5.00 g boiled @ 15”

Whirlfloc granules: 1.0 g boiled @ 5”

Dry hop: 20 g x Eclipse (18.70%) on BD+3 or 4, 20 g x Vic Secret (15.50%) on BD+3 or 4.

Yeast: 300 ml Reclaimed CCA from batch of Coopers Sparkling Ale - Brew #57.

Ferment as per CCA temp profile starting at 17 C for 3 days then allowing it to rise to 22 C by BD +7.

Edited November 21, 2021 by iBooz2

[ben 10]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:00 PM, iBooz2 said:

Grains: VIC Ale malt (BB) = 3.50 kg, Wheat malt (WEY) = 1.00 kg, Acidulated malt (WEY) = 0.20 kg, Caramunich II (WEY) 0.15 kg, Toffee malt (GLAD) 0.15 kg

Complicated grain bill - is that because you have that grain or are you looking to achieve something specific?

I'd not use sugar, IMO Coopers have that in their home brew recipes as extracts are at times not as well fermented, and the dex dries it out a bit.

[iBooz2]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:48 PM, disgruntled said:

Complicated grain bill - is that because you have that grain or are you looking to achieve something specific?

I'd not use sugar, IMO Coopers have that in their home brew recipes as extracts are at times not as well fermented, and the dex dries it out a bit.

@disgruntled , Yes I had all those grains (and more) so was trying to replicate what I could taste in the only two cans of the commercial CAIPA I tried.  Now I am by no means an expert taster so could be way off with my mix.  I would think that Coopers themselves would use predominantly their own brand of pale ale malts and I know they love light crystal too so maybe its just those two.  I have ordered a couple of 25 kg bags of Coopers malts to try in my next batch.  Coopers recipe will be way simpler and cost effective.  I was not trying to replicate the K & K version of it, just used that as a starting point for my AG go at this commercial beer.

Also sugar is way cheaper than grain malt so suspect there is some in the original recipe in order to get a higher ABV at less cost.

[ben 10]

7 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Also sugar is way cheaper than grain malt so suspect there is some in the original recipe in order to get a higher ABV at less cost.

Interesting... on the grain analysis.

I don't think Coopers use sugar anymore, regardless of cost saving.

[Shamus O'Sean]

@disgruntled, I would be interested in what your recipe would be to clone the Coopers Aussie IPA.  That's partly why @iBooz2 started this topic. 

[iBooz2]

Ok here is a pic of taste test # 1, its only been in the keg for one week and unfortunately I have not had the capacity to keep it on gas at serving pressure for that whole time.  It was fast carbed for first 24 hours but then left unconnected until earlier today so it needs more time absorbing gas.  Pretty happy with colour, taste and alcohol level but I think it just needs a little more aroma so will up the dry hop from 20 g to 25 g each of Eclipse and Vic Secret next time. 

Also will go an all grain version and drop the sugar.  The acidulated malt used was only to get PH in the zone.  The Caramunich II to get the colour and the toffee malt to polish it off with what I think I could taste in the commercial version.

Might be as simple as pale malt, wheat malt and crystal to get the appropriate colour but I am going to stick to the grain bill as per my first go and tweak the hops first.

Its a very nice beer all the same IMO.

Edited January 6, 2022 by iBooz2

[ben 10]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:40 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

@disgruntled, I would be interested in what your recipe would be to clone the Coopers Aussie IPA.  That's partly why @iBooz2 started this topic. 

 

Just saw your post. I don't ever clone beers.
I'd do a Sparkling Ale something like the following, but I'd drop the crystal cos it's not particularly useful.

FYI - The lower IBU late hop additions are done at 80°c.

I do recipes this way because it works for me on my system.

Recipe: Ale
Brewer: Grumpy 
Style: Australian Sparkling Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 L   
Estimated OG: 1.063 SG
Estimated Color: 11.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 42.0 IBUs


Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume        
5.40 kg          Coopers Premium Ale (5.9 EBC)                    Grain         1          95.3 %        3.52 L        
0.22 kg          Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC)     Grain         2          3.9 %         0.14 L        
0.05 kg          Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC)                  Grain         3          0.9 %         0.03 L        
10.00 g          Pride of Ringwood [9.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min       Hop           4          9.2 IBUs      -             
20.00 g          Eclipse [17.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20.0 min, 9 Hop           5          10.4 IBUs     -             
20.00 g          Eclipse [17.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20.0 min, 8 Hop           6          4.8 IBUs      -             
20.00 g          Victoria Secret [19.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20. Hop           7          5.5 IBUs      -             
20.00 g          Victoria Secret [19.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20. Hop           8          12.0 IBUs     -             
1.0 pkg          Australian Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP009) [35.49 Yeast         9          -             -             


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ben 10]

19 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Its a very nice beer all the same IMO.

Love a hazy orange beer mate, nice one