Nelson's Light Spin-off

[Guest]

Hi guys.

 

Not too long ago I did a batch of PB2's Nelson's Light from the "How to Brew" section of the Coopers website. I brewed it for my father, who absolutely loves it & is demanding more. I must admit, I like it too. The flavours are so unlike what you would expect from a light beer.

 

I don't see why Coopers wouldn't brew that recipe commercially. It's a real winner IMHO. [cool]

 

Anyways, I often take individual sample bottles of my full strength brews around for my father to try as well. Most recently I took around (amongst others) a "Smurto's JS Golden Ale clone". My father quite enjoyed it. So I have been thinking of the best way to mod the light beer recipe & head towards that style.

 

This is what I came up with...

 

Coopers Liquid Amber Malt Extract 500gms

Dry light Malt Powder 750gms

Dry Wheat Malt Powder 150gms

Maltadextrin 200gms

Caramalt grain 300gms steeped for 30mins

Centennial hops 25gms @ 20mins, then steeped with grain for 30mins

Cascade hops 15gms steeped for 30mins

Amarillo hops 15gms steeped for 30mins

Cascade hops 12gms dry hopped after 3-4 days

Amarillo hops 12gms dry hopped after 3-4 days.

Re-cultured Coopers Commercial Ale yeast pitched @ approx. 20\xb0C

 

OG = 1028

FG = 1009

Final bottled ABV = 2.9%

 

What do you think?

 

All views welcomed.

 

Anthony.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I don't think you'll get much bitterness in it from a 20 minute boil. That could be an issue with the amber malt and caramalt grains in the recipe making it too sweet. I'd either boil it longer or add extra hops to the boil. It depends on the AA% of those hops however, and also the IBUs you're going for. Those varieties work well though, and overall it looks a pretty nice recipe.

[Guest]

Hiya Otto man. [happy]

 

I don't think you'll get much bitterness in it from a 20 minute boil.

It actually ends up being 50mins when you include the steep of that hop addition on top of the boil time. Yob once told me that it was still within isomerization temperatures during a steep like that after the boil, thus it is still increasing bitterness. Trust me, the original Nelson's Light recipe does not lack bitterness.

 

That could be an issue with the amber malt and caramalt grains in the recipe making it too sweet.

I figured that might be the case. Would you switch out the Amber malt extract for LME, or switch the Caramalt for some light crystal?

 

Anthony.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, I guess it is, but steeping isn't normally known for extracting bitterness, at least in my experience/readings, otherwise there'd be no point in boiling it, except for sterilisation. But I guess there's less malt to balance out with bitterness in this recipe so it probably wouldn't be an issue now I think more about it.[lol] I'm just too used to doing full strength brews.

 

I've never actually used Caramalt, so I can't really comment there, but I do have a kilo bag of it which I might try in a pale ale to see what effect it has. I have used amber malt extract though and it did give it a strange sweetness that I didn't like much, but, in saying that, you've only got 500g of it, I used 1.5kg.

 

I'd say just make it as is first, and then see how it turns out and make any changes you see necessary on future attempts.

[Guest]

I'm just too used to doing full strength brews.

I'm hearin' that. That's why I need help. [lol]

 

I've never actually used Caramalt' date=' so I can't really comment there, but I do have a kilo bag of it which I might try in a pale ale to see what effect it has. I have used amber malt extract though and it did give it a strange sweetness that I didn't like much, but, in saying that, you've only got 500g of it, I used 1.5kg.[/quote']

I too have 1kg of Caramalt on hand that I am yet to use. I'll sub out the Liquid Amber Malt for some Light Malt Extract, & use the Caramalt 300gms.

 

I'll be your Guinea Pig for the Caramalt. [tongue]

As usual, your input has been very helpful. [joyful]

 

P.S. I remember that recipe where you used 1.5kgs of Amber malt extract. I swear a number of the guys recommended you halve that amount to 750gms before putting that brew down at the time.[innocent]

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I've only ever used the amber extract in one brew which was meant to replicate Squire's Amber Ale, and it called for the full 1.5kg. It didn't really get near it to be honest [lol] It wasn't a terrible brew, but it could have done with some extra hops to balance out the sweetness of the amber malt. I'm still mucking about with recipes to get close to its style though. I made an extract version which was closer but it's still missing something that I can't quite put my finger on. I shall keep experimenting[biggrin]

[Long Gone]

I've only ever used the amber extract in one brew which was meant to replicate Squire's Amber Ale' date=' and it called for the full 1.5kg. It didn't really get near it to be honest [lol'] It wasn't a terrible brew, but it could have done with some extra hops to balance out the sweetness of the amber malt.

G'day Kelsey

I'm not a big fan of Amber Malt either, I find it too sweet. Maybe I am using too much or need to boil more bittering hops. Either way I find results are better by using grains to adjust for colour. They do add sweetness to the brew but if you get the balance right then I reckon its OK.

I haven't done what Anthony is doing cause I like to have no left overs.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey Anthony,

 

Why are you steeping these hops instead of a boil with these malts which should rightfully be boiled anyway? It seems like you are trying too hard to avoid a boil. A boil would only improve your beer. The bigger boil the better beer![rightful]

[Muddy Waters]

Chad already asked my questions for me. Too much steeping and not enough boiling.

 

As for amber malt - I use a maximum of 1/2 a tin with great results. As mentioned above it has a tendency to leave your beer too sweet when using a full tin.

 

Also, Maltodextrin has no place in beers....imo [biggrin]

[Guest]

Thanks for the added input Ed, Canuck & Muddy. [happy]

 

When posting the recipe I was only really interested in thoughts about the malt extract, grain type & hop types I substituted for those in the original recipe. As for the procedure of putting it all together, the one I listed above is the procedure outlined in the Nelson's Light recipe. If you have any issues with that, you probably need to discuss that with PB2, not me. [innocent]

 

I could certainly alter the procedure & do it in a more conventional manner, but having gone through this procedure once already & tasted the end result, I'm more than happy to use it on this light beer recipe again. [joyful]

 

As far as using Maltodextrin goes, I don't use it in my usual brews as there is no need. I can happily throw whatever quantities of malt & grain at my regular brews to give it all the 'body' I need because final ABV is not a concern. However, with a light beer it is. If you want body in a light beer, you don't have the luxury of being able to add large quantities of malts & grains due to the fermentable sugars they produce, & there are very few alternatives for adding body into a light beer brew.

 

I actually added maltodextrin into the first Nelson's Light brew I did, with good results.

 

If anyone has a better way to achieve a final gravity of 1.009 & a final bottled abv of 2.9% without using maltodextrin, I'm more than happy to hear it.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'm sure I've read that there's some grains out there that add body and also flavour without producing many fermentable sugars. I just can't remember what they are.. maybe someone could shed some light on that?

[Hairy]

Lusty, now that you can do partial mashes you could replace some of the dry malt with a base malt and mash at say 70 degrees.

 

This will give you a wort with less fermentability and more body.

 

Otherwise I would use carapils before Maltodextrin powder. It's just a personal thing; I don't really like the taste and feel of it in my beer.

[Guest]

If anyone has a better way to achieve a final gravity of 1.009 & a final bottled abv of 2.9% without using maltodextrin' date=' I'm more than happy to hear it.[/quote']

 

 

[lol]

 

it's all about ballence [ninja]

[Guest]

Hi Hairy. [happy]

 

Lusty, now that you can do partial mashes you could replace some of the dry malt with a base malt and mash at say 70 degrees.

 

This will give you a wort with less fermentability and more body.

 

Otherwise I would use carapils before Maltodextrin powder. It's just a personal thing; I don't really like the taste and feel of it in my beer.

 

Of all the guys on the forum since I joined, I have learned more from your posts than anyone else. You are ALWAYS respectful in your replies, understanding of situations, knowledgeable of procedures, & extremely good at conveying your knowledge to the various levels of brewer on this forum, including me. [happy]

 

I would be very interested in any recipes you might be able to conjure up that use more grain to create body in place of maltodextrin, but maintain a final bottled abv under 3.0%.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Hairy]

Aw shucks. I guess you haven't called my bluff yet. I tend to just talk crap and try to appear that I know what I am talking about [biggrin]

 

With regards to your recipe you may want to reconsider your yeast choice too. From what I have read, the Coopers commercial yeast is a high attenuator (but you may want confirmation from PB2 on that one).

 

Using a high attenuating yeast in a lowish alcohol beer makes your job more difficult.

 

You could try Windsor yeast which generally leaves you with a higher FG.

[Muddy Waters]

You are ALWAYS respectful in your replies' date=' understanding of situations[/quote']

 

Unlike somebody I can think of [whistling .....[innocent]

 

[Guest]

Very clever Hairy.

 

I hadn't thought about yeast attenuation as a means of altering Final Gravity. You sort of get stuck in a one track mind zone about the flavour profile you are trying to build & the characteristics of a yeast you know & like.

 

This recipe might have to wait an extra week now while I look into this further as I already started the re-culture process last night. [pinched]

 

Should this end up being my last post given comments I have made in another thread & PB2's potential reaction to those comments, I would simply like to say that I have enjoyed my time on the forum, & am thankful to all those that have been a positive influence on improving my brewing to where it is today.

 

Thank you.

 

Anthony.

[Hairy]

Should this end up being my last post given comments I have made in another thread & PB2's potential reaction to those comments

I didn't comment in the 'other' thread because I thought it would be better to just be deleted by the moderators.

 

Regardless of your feelings, creating a thread to personally attack someone is not cool [rightful]

 

It is disrespectful to that person, other forum members and those that created and maintain this forum.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Should this end up being my last post given comments I have made in another thread & PB2's potential reaction to those comments

I didn't comment in the 'other' thread because I thought it would be better to just be deleted by the moderators.

 

Regardless of your feelings, creating a thread to personally attack someone is not cool [rightful]

 

It is disrespectful to that person, other forum members and those that created and maintain this forum.

 

So that's what happened.[roll]

 

There's been a lot of that going around here these days.[tongue]

[Guest]

Hi guys.

 

For those interested, this is the recipe I threw together earlier today in the FV...

 

Briess Golden Light Malt Extract 1kg

Dry Light Malt Powder 450gms

Dry Wheat Malt Powder 100gms

Maltadextrin 150gms

Caramalt grain 300gms steeped @ 70\xb0C for 40mins

A Full hop boil (As requested by some of my fellow forum members) [biggrin]

Centennial hops 25gms @ 40mins

Cascade hops 15gms @ 10mins

Amarillo hops 15gms @ 10mins

Cascade hops 12gms dry hopped after 3-4 days

Amarillo hops 12gms dry hopped after 3-4 days.

Re-cultured Coopers Commercial Ale yeast pitched @ approx. 19-20\xb0C

23 Litres

 

OG = 1029

FG = 1009? (Debatable due to yeast used)

Final bottled ABV = 2.9%

 

For those that have not seen or used the Briess Golden Light extract, it is a lovely golden colour (approx. 7.9 EBC), & uses a base malt along with some Carapils as it's flavour make up.

 

As an experimental brew, I'll be interested to see how this one pans out.

 

Anthony.