Guest Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hi guys. I've been humming & harring for the last month or so about brewing a true lager in my brew fridge. I've kept putting Ale brews down due to the quicker cycle of being able to bottle them & the fact that my aging stocks had gotten a little low. [innocent] The timing is right, so this coming Friday I would like to assemble a respectable lager brew together & put it through a full ferment cycle. I found a recipe that took my interest over on the Briess Malt & Ingredients website The recipe that interested me most, is This All Grain recipe. I don't have the equipment to be able to brew it as an All Grain recipe, so I have done my best to adapt it to an extract based recipe, with a small grain additive. The adaption also reduces final ABV to a level a bit more comfortable for me. . . Briess CBW Pilsen Malt Extract 1.5kgs Briess CBW Munich Malt Extract 0.75kgs Dried Wheat Malt Powder 500gms Dried Light Malt powder 250gms Weyermann Vienna Malt 250gms Mashed (As best as I can) Saaz hops 40gms @ 60mins Perle hops 20gms @ 15mins Saaz hops 15gms @ 15mins Spalt hops 25gms @ 2 mins WLP920 Old Bavarian Lager Yeast or Saflager W-34/70. Once wort & other LDM's are mixed into FV, cool fermenter to 16\xb0C & pitch yeast. Hold for first signs of ferment, then lower to 11\xb0C for 3 week primary ferment. Secondary ferment for 6 weeks. OG = 1.045 FG = 1.012 EBC = 14.6 IBU = 21.0 Final bottled ABV = 4.8% This is one time, I want forum members to critique the heck out of what I have written. If I'm going to go through a 9 week cycle brew for a beer, I want it to be something worthwhile at the end of it. Am I biting off more than I can chew? Does the recipe look sound? Should I just brew something simpler for my first lager brew? All thoughts welcomed. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Looks like a pretty nice recipe to me. I've had a sneaky look at the all grain version and I might put it in my brew recipes for next winter, unless I can get a brew fridge happening in the meantime. But no, I wouldn't say that your extract adaptation of the recipe is over complicated, the important question is, do you feel confident of being able to make it? If so, then I'd say just go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Lusty, the recipe looks good but it is different to the one linked. If you are doing a straight conversion from AG to extract then it is different, but if you were tweaking it to add your own touch then it is fine. What was your aim? I don't know if mashing 250g Vienna is going to add much to the brew. I think you should either up it to a kilo and adjust the rest of the recipe or just stick with the extract and maybe steep some carapils. Also a tip - make sure you have around 10 litres of chilled water handy and then you won't have to wait to get the wort to 16 degrees. Otherwise, in terms of complexity, the making of the wort is no different to making an ale. So you are not biting off more than you can chew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 3 questions come to mind... Why the Munich and why the wheat and why the Perle? I'd also up the Vienna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Good morning guys. Thanks for the input. 3 questions come to mind... Why the Munich and why the wheat and why the Perle? I'd also up the Vienna. The recipe seemed a little light on for bitterness, so I wanted another addition. You have me on why I chose Perle for that though. [innocent] Should I just stick with the Spalt for that extra addition? As for the Munich, it is/was the only available Liquid Malt Extract that has a biscuit undertone like the Vienna grain. The EBC is a lot darker obviously than the Vienna so I had to adjust the volume of Munich down. The wheat additive was more for safety reasons & sticking with EBC . People speak of good results with head retention etc using wheat malt & being a lager style, I thought that would be suited here. I am a little concerned with attempting a mash with the Vienna grain, that's why I've only used a smallish addition. That way if I'm unable to control the mash temperature very well it won't impact too too much on the overall brew. I'm more than happy to substitute it out for a larger dose of Carapils as Hairy suggested that I feel comfortable steeping. I know by doing that it would be taking the recipe even further away from it's AG base, but that's ok too. I threw the recipe up so everyone could sort of see what I was thinking of brewing. I'm actually open to any decent European lager recipe, it's just not many get posted by members, as most of us primarily brew ales. If someone has a better path for this lager, I'm more than happy to take it. 9 weeks....9 weeks is a longtime to wait for a brew. I just want something good at the end of it. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Wheat is ok and is entirely up to you in the end of course. However, I would drop it to achieve a brighter/clearer lager in the end. Lagers are not usually bitter. They are usually crisp and clean. I would drop the Perle. If you are going to do a mini mash then might as well do a decent one properly and use at least 1kg Vienna drop the Munich and if you are worried about head retention then certainly a handful of Carapils wouldn't hurt. Don't feel threatened by doing a mash.... all it is, is a fancy term for steeping. If you can steep then you can certainly mash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hi BillK. You are being far too kind to me in this case. My steeping prowess has certainly not reached any lofty heights. Most of the steeping I've been doing is in 250-300gm batches where technique was more important than actual temperature. I did do a little mini-mash of sorts on a recipe that called for it a few weeks back. I found holding temperature quite difficult given the 5-6 litre pot I use on the stove-top, & a handheld thermometer. I just want to avoid as many "undesireables" as I can through the process where my own shortcomings can impact adversely on the brew. Clint Eastwood once said, "A man has got to know his limitations". I think he was standing over a dead body when he said that. I don't want to be standing over my dead lager when I realise mine! [lol] P.S. What sort of IBU number would you be aiming for? Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 IBUs for a lager.. I'd aim for 5-17 IBUs Re. mash, bring your pot to 2-3 degrees above strike temp. Dump your grain in there then take it off the heat and wrap the pot in a doona or blankets/towel. This will help retain the temp and you will probably lose about 1-2 degrees over an hour which will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Clint Eastwood once said' date=' "A man has got to know his limitations".[/quote'] You won't know your limitations until you test them [wink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Clint Eastwood once said' date=' "A man has got to know his limitations".[/quote'] You won't know your limitations until you test them [wink] Now there's a good point and a great quote from "Dirty Hairy" [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARKP18 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Re. mash, bring your pot to 2-3 degrees above strike temp. Dump your grain in there then take it off the heat and wrap the pot in a doona or blankets/towel. This will help retain the temp and you will probably lose about 1-2 degrees over an hour which will be fine. Another method would be to put it in the oven after you add the grain (depending how good your oven thermostat is), never tried it but sounds like it should work for small mashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Thanks for the great advice BillK. You've convinced me into having a crack at mashing the Vienna malt. I'll scrub the Munich, the Perle hop & get back nearer to the base AG recipe from the website. Can I effectively mash 1kg of grain in 5 litres of water? Clint Eastwood once said' date=' "A man has got to know his limitations".[/quote'] You won't know your limitations until you test them [wink] Very true Hairy, & well said. [cool] Thanks for your input too MarkP18. I might even have a look at placing the cookpot into the oven instead of using my doona to wrap around it, as good of advice as that is. I have a modern oven, so why not give it a try. [joyful] So as an AG'er BillK, what did you think of that recipe on the website? Otto man seemed to like it. Great/Good/Average? Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Clint Eastwood once said' date=' "A man has got to know his limitations".[/quote'] You won't know your limitations until you test them [wink] Now there's a good point and a great quote from "Dirty Hairy" [biggrin] Ha ha [biggrin] [biggrin] I have never been called that before but I guess it is appropriate. You can obviously see into my mind [innocent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 So as an AG'er BillK, what did you think of that recipe on the website? Otto man seemed to like it. Great/Good/Average? Anthony. The recipe looks ok to me but is hard to comment with opinion as I have never used Spalt before and have no idea what it is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 I guess I shall be the Guinea Pig for using it then. [alien] What would be a suitable water volume to mash that 1kg of Vienna Malt in? I plan to add the runnings to a 500gm LDM volume for a final 5 litre based boil for the hops. Also (Noobie question coming...), is it advisable to be stirring a mash/steep a number of times during the mash/steep cycle? Or after the initial stirring of the grains, just leave it be for the rest of the cycle? P.S. I borrowed one of BillK's new icons to help me think... Anthony. [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'll make it, as an experiment. [lol] I've never used Spalt either. Then I'll report back with the results[cool] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Hi guys. Well, I bottled BrendanS8's recipe this morning, then went & bought the ingredients for the Lager recipe that I'll mix together & throw in the fermenter tomorrow. BillK has convinced me to have a crack at the mash of the Vienna malt, as well as changing a few of my ingredient sizes etc. Final recipe for tomorrow will be... Coopers Light Malt Extract 1kg Briess CBW Pilsen Malt Extract 0.75kgs Dried Light Malt Powder 250gms Dried Wheat Malt Powder 250gms Weyermann Vienna Malt 1kg Mashed @ 67\xb0C for 45mins (As best as I can) CaraPils 250gms Mashed/steeped with the Vienna Malt Dextrose 100gms Saaz hops 40gms @ 60mins Saaz hops 15gms @ 15mins Spalt hops 25gms @ 2 mins WYeast 2000 Budvar Lager Liquid Yeast After cook, will mix with LME's & LDM's & dextrose then cool fermenter to 16\xb0C. Once cooled will heavily aerate/oxygenate the mix & pitch the yeast. Will hold for 24hrs @ 16\xb0C, then lower temp to 11\xb0C for 3 week primary ferment. Secondary ferment for 6 weeks. OG = 1.049 FG = 1.014 EBC = 6.9 IBU = 15.3 Final bottled ABV = 4.9% I couldn't get hold of the Whitelabs WLP920 Old Bavarian lager yeast, because it seems to be seasonal & subject to availability. So I selected the Budvar as a replacement. I like those characteristics & that style, so expecting good things providing everything goes well putting it all together. [joyful] First time lashing out for a liquid yeast, so I hope it all works out well. Those "Smack Packs" are quite interesting. I've smacked mine already (I think it likes it!) in preparation for tomorrow. It's inflating as we speak. I just hope I get the mash right tomorrow. [unsure] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I don't think you'll have too much trouble with mashing mate, if you can steep grains, you can mash them; it's practically the same process except maintaining a pretty constant temperature is more important with mashing. And it's usually done for longer than steeping specialty grains. Good luck with it, looking forward to hearing how it turns out! [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just relax mate. Most of your fermentables are coming from the malt extracts so if you don't get mash perfect it won't affect it too much. Good luck with it. I was going to say to let us know how you went but you will do that anyway [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just relax mate. Most of your fermentables are coming from the malt extracts so if you don't get mash perfect it won't affect it too much. Good luck with it. I was going to say to let us know how you went but you will do that anyway [biggrin] Haha Hairy. Yeah I'm a bit of bigmouth like that aren't I? [biggrin] In all seriousness, yes I will, if merely for descriptions about the Spalt hop that some seem to be interested in. So what have you got brewing atm Hairy? We all assume you shave the 'Hairy Back', but what is happening on the 'Hairy Front'? [tongue] Sorry for the poor humour attempt. I am truly interested in what you are brewing. [innocent] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Nah, I am letting the back and the front grow out for Movember. I still have the Hefewiezen in the FV. I should have bottled it last week (or the week before) but I was busy (and a little lazy). Next up is probably a mid-strength Amber ale (all grain [devil] ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hi guys. Just an update on this brew. I followed BillK's advice about the mash to the letter, excluding the doona wrap. After 69-70\xb0C was reached, I stirred in the grains & placed the whole pot in my pre-warmed oven that was set a temperature as close as I thought was to 67\xb0C. My oven has a dial temperature gauge that stops the increments at 70\xb0C, but has lower warming temps that continue on past that with no increments. I took a leap of faith on the mash with the oven. After the 45 min mash time-frame had elapsed, I removed the pot from the oven, & jabbed in the thermometer.... 66-67\xb0C. Perfect! Stoked! After doing a couple of laps of the house, & high-fiving a bunch of invisible people along the run...I went about the rest of the brew. [tongue] As far as an update on the Spalt hop goes, I found it's smell very "Steely", with a lingering lemon-ish aroma, & to a lesser degree, a very slight pine type aroma. Don't quote me on that though. I have a big nose, & it is often blocked! [lol] The Spalt is certainly something I would use again as a flavouring/aroma hop for a lager. It 'fit' well in this recipe. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 See Beer, I told you that you would wonder what all the fuss was about..... easy peasy Glad it turned out ok. Now waiting for post ferment update [innocent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Well done Lusty! See, the only limitations are the ones you set yourself [rightful] Dead set, I am starting to turn into Confucius or the Dalai Lama around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Hi BillK & Hairy. Thanks for your advice & help with this brew. See Beer, I told you that you would wonder what all the fuss was about..... easy peasy Glad it turned out ok. Now waiting for post ferment update [innocent] It's about 2/3 there BillK. The ability to regulate even temperature through the oven was a concern before I started. It is no longer. [biggrin] I am still a little concerned about how much yeast I actually pitched. I reckon I should have stepped it up a little. Being new to the smack packs, I didn't want to get too cute playing around with it the first time. I'll know more after about a week into ferment & how steady it is brewing etc. See, the only limitations are the ones you set yourself. Dead set, I am starting to turn into Confucius or the Dalai Lama around here. I will only become concerned when you begin referring to forum members as "Grasshopper"! [lol] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.