"tangy" APA

[Nick]

 

Nick mentioned he was going to control the temp during the entire primary process on his next batch so we can see if that makes a difference.

I will bottle a batch tomorrow that has been kept at exactly 20deg for 14 days.

 

I will taste one after 2 weeks and update this thread. I agree with you BB and never get serious about drinking my APA's until at least a month, but 2 weeks in, generally give a good indication.

[Nick]

i have left these APA's long enough now for them to be at their best, but after 2 weeks in the fridge, the tang is still there or maybe even worse. I have also noticed that they are not the normal golden straw colour, but a slightly rusty orange. The beer is also a bit cloudy. Could this be an infection? I have been of the assumption that it was the result of fermenting at ambient for the second week in primary (20 deg in the brew fridge for the first week} I have nearly 200 stubbies that were all brewed the same way that will most likely end up down the drain so i am well pisssed off[crying]

[Muleyinoz]

SNAP! Was thinking about this today Nick. My Altbeir been in the keg about 2 weeks and I also think the tang is worse. Never done this style and the guide says a bit tangy. Not liking it though.

 

My thought is it became infected when I cubed and crashed it. Also the empty keg from the last APA with similer issues had a strong vinegar smell after it sat out empty and warm a few days and that seems wrong. I have heavily sanitized the cube for 3 days and if it happens again it's gone. Needless to say all sanitation has been ramped up to extreme! I am thinking invite the mates over and tell them it's the style before it goes completely off. It's the style guys! Free BEER!

 

[PhilboBaggins]

Hi Nick. I'm glad this thread has resurfaced, as I think I have more information which will help with your investigation.

 

I have decided to experiment to the other end of the scale, and leave things completely uncontrolled after 7 days in the fridge.

 

My APA which I am about to bottle was kept at 19-20 for 7 days. I then racked it to secondary with some hops and let it stay at ambient for TWO WEEKS, and ambient here inside the house has been 28-30 at all times, coz Adelaide weather is a C U Next Tuesday. [lol]

 

I chilled and tasted my sample and it tastes as good as if not better than most I've been doing. Crystal clear from the extra time in the FV, and really clean and well attenuated.

 

I may not do the same thing again at these temps, but I think your tang must be coming from elsewhere mate. Wish I could give you more info on what it is rather than what it isn't.

 

Sorry bro. [crying]

[PhilboBaggins]

It's the style guys! Free BEER!

 

[lol] Nice one Muley.

[Hairy]

I didn't think the tang would be caused by a week at ambient temps after fermentation had finished.

 

If you are confident that you are using fresh extracts then I would look at my equipment and brewing area. Perhaps give your FV a good blast of bleach and then follow your normal sanitation procedure. Then brew in a different area to where you normally brew. It may be some minor infection altering the taste and it could be an airborne thing in your brewing area.

 

But I am completely guessing here. I would definitely bleach the FVs though.

[Nick]

Hi all, after reading and re reading all responses and comments,i am still none the wiser as too the exact cause, temp can be ruled out as the critical first week was a controlled 20 deg, i am super confident that sanitation was ok as i'm pedantic about that and batches made in the same FV's since have all been fine. As the cans were dated 2014, i am happy that they were fresh also.

 

The one thing that is unknown is the temp during transport. Anything that is trucked from Adelaide to Qld will have had maybe 3 days in an closed or tarped truck where if unrefridgerated the temps could be well over 50 deg.

 

Maybe PB2 can comment on the effect that could have on a can of gunk. Also Kelsey suggested high storage temp of the fermentables. Anyway, i'm about to dispose of 3 cartons of APA and not in the manner intended. thanks for all commnts and words of encouragement and condolences[crying]

[IzacF]

Hi all, after reading and re reading all responses and comments,i am still none the wiser as too the exact cause, temp can be ruled out as the critical first week was a controlled 20 deg, i am super confident that sanitation was ok as i'm pedantic about that and batches made in the same FV's since have all been fine. As the cans were dated 2014, i am happy that they were fresh also.

 

The one thing that is unknown is the temp during transport. Anything that is trucked from Adelaide to Qld will have had maybe 3 days in an closed or tarped truck where if unrefridgerated the temps could be well over 50 deg.

 

Maybe PB2 can comment on the effect that could have on a can of gunk. Also Kelsey suggested high storage temp of the fermentables. Anyway, i'm about to dispose of 3 cartons of APA and not in the manner intended. thanks for all commnts and words of encouragement and condolences[crying]

sure you cant salvage it mate??

 

[SteveM33]

When you describe the taste as tangy.... could you maybe also mean a slight metallic taste?

 

Why I ask is because everyone has different palates and you could possibly be describing something that others would call metallic?

 

Anyhow, my point is, you say that you took these brews out of the fridge after 6-7 days at let them rest at ambient temps (whatever that was). I would say that you possibly shouldn't rule out the fact of 2 things:

 

1/ Light Strike, even though unlikely in this case but it is possible or;

2/ Oxidation

 

Both of the above can produce tangy/metallic flavors.

 

 

[Nick]

When you describe the taste as tangy.... could you maybe also mean a slight metallic taste?

 

Why I ask is because everyone has different palates and you could possibly be describing something that others would call metallic?

 

Anyhow, my point is, you say that you took these brews out of the fridge after 6-7 days at let them rest at ambient temps (whatever that was). I would say that you possibly shouldn't rule out the fact of 2 things:

 

1/ Light Strike, even though unlikely in this case but it is possible or;

2/ Oxidation

 

Both of the above can produce tangy/metallic flavors.

 

Hey Steve, slightly metallic could be a good way to describe the taste and 1 batch is definately worse than the others.

 

The 1st 7 days was in a dark brewfridge at 20deg, the 2nd week was on the laundry bench uncovered which is where i used to brew before got the fridge. ambient would have been high 20's, even low 30's in early jan. My frementer is a new diy one so light could be a factor. Is lightstrike only a problem after fermentation is over? Not sure how oxidation would occur as all i did was move the fermenter, nothing else. I am glad this thread has attracted some attention as there is nothing worse than nurturing a brew for weeks and have to toss it down the drain. I reckon most K & K blokes on this forum would like to how to elliminate this problem or at least minimise it

[PhilboBaggins]

Not just K&K blokes Nick. Turns out one of mine has this problem also, and what's more, it's from before Xmas when I was able to leave my beer in the fridge for the whole 2 weeks. [crying]

 

Just cracked a #68 AIPA and definitely a metallic aftertaste. Still drinkable, but now that I know it's there I'm finding it harder to ignore.

 

Can't say I've ever had this particular flavour in my beer before. Oxidation you reckon Steve? Mine are straight from an old school FV (can't see through) and into dark bottles which go straight to a cupboard in the shed, so can't see light strike being an issue.

[PB2]

Infection is the most likely problem if it's more cloudy than usual and getting worse as it matures.

 

But to have a better idea, a sample would need to be looked at by a trained taster (someone with a good palate) and/or analysed in a lab.

 

A lightstruck or oxidised beer does not throw metallic characters - but one persons idea of "metallic" can be different to anothers [rightful]

 

A brew with real hops, fermented or not, is vulnerable to lightstrike - avoid placing it in direct sunlight or adjacent to fluoros.

 

Oxidised beer usually throws characters such as; papery, carboard, musty, earthy, sherry, leathery and/or stale.

[Hairy]

How long before oxidation is noticeable? I thought it took a little while for it to kick in.

[SteveM33]

A lightstruck or oxidised beer does not throw metallic characters - but one persons idea of "metallic" can be different to anothers [rightful]

I say crap... who is to say how someone persieves a taste to another?.... some people say a slight Sherry taste is very similar to metallic which is what I am getting at when I said

Why I ask is because everyone has different palates and you could possibly be describing something that others would call metallic?

 

I would be very interested to see where something states Oxidation or Light Srike can not impart a metallic flavor when in fact the perseption of a metallic flavor can be very different from one person to the next.

 

Here is one example I just googled....

 

Some beers develop an unpleasant metallic flavor as they age. This seems to be independent of beer color. This flavor is often most prominent when the head of the beer is sampled, and if it is not too strong, it seems to fade as the beer breathes. This is most likely due to the tongue becoming accustomed to the flavor and ceasing to respond to it.

 

Therefore, unless everyone has the same recognition of what exact flavor is being discussed, I do not see how you can rule it out.

[PB2]

Sorry Steve - the portion of my post, that you quoted, and your response seems to be the start of a "violent agreement". [biggrin]

 

Yes, yes - people can have a different perception of the same character thrown by a beer. I'm with you man [love]

 

The chemical(name and formula escapes me at the moment) created to form oxidised characters does present to the majority of people in the way I described, not metallic.

 

I'm merely trying to rule out those which are less likely to be the cause in the pursuit of pin-pointing the problem[sideways]

 

Perhaps, some beers do develop an unpleasant metallic flavour as they age?? Nice googling...I'm yet to experience this and the operative word here is "some". [rightful]

[Nick]

I have just had my first taste of an APA that was brewed and then bottled 23/1 after the 3 tangy batches.

 

It is the best K and K ive ever made. The difference was that i gave it 11 days in the brewfridge, then straight in the bottle, no leaving at ambient. Thats the way i will be doing it from now on. hopefully tangy batches will be a thing of the past.

 

Cheers to all[lol]

[Hairy]

Good to hear mate.

 

Looks like you worked it out yourself.

[Nick]

Good to hear mate.

 

Looks like you worked it out yourself.

Not so sure i've worked it out, just found a process thats worked for me. Consistency is the real proof of the pud.

 

I have 2 more batches that will be ready for preliminary tasting next week, only then will i know if i've worked it out. Thanks for the encouragement Hairy