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Nick

"tangy" APA

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I made and bottled 3 batches of APA in january. 2 with kit yeast and 1 with US-05. 2 batches made with BE2 and 1 with LME. I had a preliminary taste of all 3 last night and all have the tang of beer brewed at high temp.

 

Trouble is, all spent thier first week in the brew fridge at 20deg, but then had a week at ambient to finish out before bottling.

 

In previous threads, i was led to believe that off flavours develope during ferment and as such, temp control is only critical in the first week, but i am concerned that this is not the case. The beer is definately drinkable, but nothing like the quality i have been making in the past. I was thinking infection, but i have used 2 different FV's (maybe both are crook?)

 

Any ideas? Should i leave for the whole 2 weeks in the brew fridge?

 

Thanks in advance for any help here....it is very sad looking at 8 cartons of beer that i dont want to drink, especially as 4 of them are for my next fishing and camping expedition next week...i'm going go have to buy mega swill[crying]

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Bugger Nick, that sucks. But mate, if you mean this January, surely it's a bit too early to be writing them off as sub par?

 

Thanks to an obscene amount of beer being consumed by yours truly over my time off, I am still struggling to catch up with all the empties I have lying around, and I've been forced to do the same as you.

 

However, I've tried several of mine which were treated in this manner, and they seem quite okay. Are you sure that fermentation was finished before they came up to ambient?

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Bugger Nick, that sucks. But mate, if you mean this January, surely it's a bit too early to be writing them off as sub par?

 

Thanks to an obscene amount of beer being consumed by yours truly over my time off, I am still struggling to catch up with all the empties I have lying around, and I've been forced to do the same as you.

 

However, I've tried several of mine which were treated in this manner, and they seem quite okay. Are you sure that fermentation was finished before they came up to ambient?

Agreed they are still young Phil, but generally you get a good indication after a fortnight. as far as the ferment being over, i cant really say...i made the assumption that after a week of fairly vigorous activity, ferment was either over, or close enough to it. I have a batch in the brew fridge now that i was going to take out and replace with a new batch, but i might leave it there and bottle it next saturday. The trouble is, i only have room for one FV in the brew fridge, so this will effectivly half my summer brewing capacity. I guess its better to have half as much good beer than twice as much shet beer.

 

BTW, you said you do the same thing, but do you make sure ferment is over before you take it out of the BF? and how long do you leave it at ambient before you bottle or keg?

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I leave mine in the brew fridge for the full 2 weeks, mainly because of space issues.

 

My new brew fridge has room for 2 FVs but that would mean buying another for bulk priming (more space issues).

 

I am drinking a Pale Ale made with Galaxy hops at the moment & I have to say it is a bit of a disappointment given that it was made using the same recipe from previous brews. I wouldn't say it is a "tang", sort of a mixture of extra bitterness & tang if that makes any sense.

 

...still drinking it tho'

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BTW, you said you do the same thing, but do you make sure ferment is over before you take it out of the BF? and how long do you leave it at ambient before you bottle or keg?

 

Nope, I sure don't, so you got me[lol]. I take it out after 6-7 days and leave it at ambient for another 7. The reason I ask if it was finished is because a few weeks ago, I had one which had been going strong for the week and had settled right down. I took it out and put it on the bench and f*** me! 6 hrs later she was cranking again! [pinched] Had a mini krausen and all!

 

This is the only one which has done it, but I'm worried I might have problems once I taste it.

 

Ideally, keeping it constant is always gonna be better, but I just can't afford to at the moment.

 

Good luck, and I hope your batches (and my suss one) all turn out to be great. More importantly, maybe we both need second fridges? I think I just about have SWMBO convinced. [happy] [innocent]

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BTW' date=' you said you do the same thing, but do you make sure ferment is over before you take it out of the BF? and how long do you leave it at ambient before you bottle or keg?[/quote']

 

Nope, I sure don't, so you got me[lol]. I take it out after 6-7 days and leave it at ambient for another 7. The reason I ask if it was finished is because a few weeks ago, I had one which had been going strong for the week and had settled right down. I took it out and put it on the bench and f*** me! 6 hrs later she was cranking again! [pinched] Had a mini krausen and all!

 

This is the only one which has done it, but I'm worried I might have problems once I taste it.

 

Ideally, keeping it constant is always gonna be better, but I just can't afford to at the moment.

 

Good luck, and I hope your batches (and my suss one) all turn out to be great. More importantly, maybe we both need second fridges? I think I just about have SWMBO convinced. [happy] [innocent]

I made an Amber ale when i first got the STC1000 and bottled it after 10 days straight in the Brew Fridge. It was the only beer i have made that created a bottle bomb, luckily it was in PETs so i released the preassure in them and all was good, so obviously fermentation was not quite over.

I think that maybe the anwser, 10 days in the BF, 2 days at ambient.

 

Mind you, i like the idea of a 2nd BF better[biggrin]

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What temp do you keep yours at Nick? I tried 18C when I got my fridge, but had several batches go to sleep on me.[crying]

 

I now keep it at 20c for 5 days and 22c for 2 more days before letting it go at ambient. I know it's not ideal, but neither is trying to wake up sleepy yeast.

 

"Pss off, been up all night on the shugrzz, lemme jussave another day off... zzzzzzzz." [lol] [lol]

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I can't help much Nick. But the off flavours would be produced during the ferment, not during the clean up period.

 

And it is likely to have finished fermenting (or close to it) after 7 days.

 

Try keeping a batch in the fridge for two weeks and see if that makes a difference.

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.

 

"Pss off, been up all night on the shugrzz, lemme jussave another day off... zzzzzzzz." [lol] [lol]

HaHa, is that how they go Phil?[biggrin]

 

Yeah mate, keep mine dead on 20deg the whole time. Just read Hairy's post, thats what i will do. Bugger...i was looking forward to starting another brew this w'end, but not much point if i cant put it in the BF[pinched]

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I have also had a couple APAs that at first tasting had a tang but fortunately it passed with time. I also though one was infected, but that would not have gotten better with age. I did really sanitized the FV though.

 

Maybe someone else can comment but I was wondering if it wasn't the late addition of the cascade, willamette, and amarillo hops and their citrusy note that had just not mellowed yet?

 

Don't give up hope yet mate.

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Thanks for the encouragement Muley, they are certainly drinkable, and wont go to waste, i just expected better thats all as they were brewed at controlled temp.

 

I know what you mean about getting better with age, all my APA's have taken at least a month to "mature"

 

One other thing i have noticed...one of the batches is as clear as a bell in the stubby, the other 2 arnt, but after a day in the fridge, none of them are clear?

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It's called 'chill-haze' mate and some of mine get it too. I reckon a bit of Googling would turn up a fair bit, but it's not really bothering me that much.

 

I must admit though, it is pretty satisfying to pour a crystal clear one. [love]

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Old extract or extract exposed to high temps can throw characters a bit like that from high temp ferments. Did you take notice of the BB dates on the cans?

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Old extract or extract exposed to high temps can throw characters a bit like that from high temp ferments. Did you take notice of the BB dates on the cans?

yes Paul, i always check the use by, and all were fresh cans. As i have said, fermentation for 7 days and then 7 days ambient, which can be as high as 30deg in seq...i reckon thats got to be the reason???

 

I read up heaps on chill haze since Phils post and TBH, i'm not concerned. I never really look, just drink! the reason i mentioned it was because i thought it may have been relevent to the subject of the thread

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Being Nick and I are both in sunny QLD it's quite possible that some of the cans have seen high temps somewhere along the way. Thanks PB2, will keep that in mind.

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yes Paul' date=' i always check the use by, and all were fresh cans. [/quote']

 

Yep, one side of THE BEER TRIANGLE - fresh ingredients [wink]

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Thanks Paul, i reckon i have the fresh ingredients and sanitation covered, just not so sure about the temp though

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I had a preliminary taste of all 3 last night and all have the tang of beer brewed at high temp.

 

Trouble is, all spent thier first week in the brew fridge at 20deg, but then had a week at ambient to finish out before bottling.

 

Yes, the most important time for your brew is the first few days of fermentation. After that, within reason, temp is not so critical. [cool]

 

What was the BB dates on the kits? The reason I harp on this; it's quite common for brewers to think the problem with their brew is temp control or yeast pitching rates when the issue sits with extract being old or exposed to high temp.

 

One way to help with pin-pointing the cause; high temp ferment problems are likely to (but not always) dissipate with time in the bottle while aged or temp stressed extract issues will remain.

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i always check, but unless the UBD is close, i never worry, so basically Paul i dont think that is the problem. Transport and storage could be the problem, but we dont have any control over that.

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Yes, the most important time for your brew is the first few days of fermentation. After that, within reason, temp is not so critical. [cool]

 

What was the BB dates on the kits? The reason I harp on this; it's quite common for brewers to think the problem with their brew is temp control or yeast pitching rates when the issue sits with extract being old or exposed to high temp.

 

One way to help with pin-pointing the cause; high temp ferment problems are likely to (but not always) dissipate with time in the bottle while aged or temp stressed extract issues will remain.

 

Paul that makes sense RE: my tangy APAs as it has mellowed with age. I sample mine at every stage and the worst was shocking when I cubed it. By the time I kegged it, it was slightly better and in a couple weeks was tolerable.

Being a cheapskate I usually pick up a few cans when they are on sale. The dates are fine but who knows why they are on sale at one store or the other. Think I will start marking them as to date and place of purchase to see if there is a pattern.

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Note to self, do not snip off quotes, see previous post. Sorry Paul.

 

I just wanted to add I cubed my Altbier yesterday. Today it has a twang to it. It's bit grapefruity though and I am thinking the hops and chilling are responsible and like the others it will mellow. I do admit the temp got away from me for a few hours on this one after a few days but, it was fine before cubing, I know the cube was sterile, and the previous Kolsch in it is beautiful. My only other thought, the Starsan caused it. Are you using Starsan Nick?

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Not sure if the Starsan would have caused it. I use it all the time and sometimes I will rack the beer on top of a heap of foam. I don't get a tang from it.

 

If you keep getting the tang then the only way to really work out what it is causing it to to change one ingredient or process on each brew. Try changing the temp, the malt then the yeast etc.

 

Nick mentioned he was going to control the temp during the entire primary process on his next batch so we can see if that makes a difference.

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\t

Not sure if the Starsan would have caused it. I use it all the time and sometimes I will rack the beer on top of a heap of foam. I don't get a tang from it.

I use Starsan and always pour the wort on top of a nice foam bed. I listened to a podcast from the guy who designed it. He said that basically when the starsan does it's job it turns into oxygen thus helping to oxygenate the wort (although minimal) any amount helps. I live in rural vic and only brew at ambient temps, my pallet is still learning what good beer is about but my two bobs worth says keep em in the bottle, my beers always get better the longer my patience allows them to sit [innocent]. Cheers!

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