Big Flea Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have just put down my 3rd brew today and I am lucky enough to have a temp control fridge. I don't see myself as a master brewer but I Im a expert when it comes to temp control.[innocent] (Ive built and design a temp control system wich we export to over 50 countries world wide). I have took a k-type thermocouple and put it trough the centre of the Coopers FV in the middle of the liquid. The reading on the strip on the side of the FV reads 22C, the digital temp controler reads 18C. I assume and would like to say to our fellow brewers without fridges to run there brew's at 22C with the sticker and they will be fine. I must add that Ive tested more than one tempcontroler and I have used a thermcouple next to the sticker and get the same temp diffrnce. Is there anyone out there with the same observations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 the stick on type is really an indicator.. I wouldnt be believing that number as gospel... that said, Ive never felt the need to have a thoremo-well installed to the FV.. I find an insulated probe on the side of the FV to be accurate enough and a reasonable account of the ferment temp... If you need further clarificaion BF, please elaborate on the specifics of the question.. do you advocate the thermo-well or just a generalised response to the perceived accuracy of the stick ons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Howzit Yob, Just a genral response will be good enough to see if there is any other similiar observations. While seting up my fridge and because I have the equipment I tought I would put my thermocouple inside the FV. Its like going to the doctor, he either stick the the thermomater in your mouth or up your @ss for a reading. When you dead they stick it under your arm or touch your head on the outside of your body. [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I only just got my fridge too so I haven't actually brewed anything in it yet. I have tested it first with a bottle of water and then with a cube of wort just using the same method as Yob, insulated probe stuck to the side of whatever container it's in. I just had it set to 18. I might stick a thermometer in my gravity samples to see how accurate it actually is when I get around to fermenting my next batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi Kelsey, I have done exactly the same, because I did read your post beforehand. I don't think there is a right or wrong here just a observation. Im abit of a geek about temp control and its part om my daily life.[love] Its like reading the instructions when I did my first brew and try and get my yeast in as quick as possible even when the temp is 28C. Only started to focus on proper control when I joined this blog with all the bloody good info and tips. Our moto is; if you can messure it you can control it, if you can control it, you can improve it.[cool] Looking out for your observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 BF, at what stage was the brew when you ran the temp comparison test - just mixed, fermenting for a few hours, days...? Also, what was the difference between ambient temp and the measured brew temp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi PB2, Few hours after I put the brew down I observe the differnce. Ambient temp in my "mancave" was about 23C.(I do have it in a fridge) I must add that exactly the same diffrence between the sticker and thermocouple was about +4-5C even with water in the FV for a week. The sticker always reads higher than the thermocouple inside the FV or insulated next to the sticker outside the FV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 interested to see a comparison between the thermowell, sticker and an insulated probe (STC style) on the side of the fv... difficult to do as calibration would be the issue, still... curious to know even the readings on the thermowell and the insulated probe on the side. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Wicket Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hey Flea, I have two fridges with STC 1000 all be it only a few weeks old, however I find with the probe insulated by foam, and tightly held against the FV with a Velcro strap exactly the same, tape temp is aprox 3-4 degrees above reading on STC 1000. I just assume the tape temp is not accurate, and I have worried about some brews pre temp control unnecessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 At that stage there would be very little biological activity and minimal, if any, convection occuring through the brew. This would lead to stratification (temperature layers) within the brew. The effect becomes more significant when there is a greater difference between brew and ambient (in this case the internal temp of the fridge). The accuracy of the thermo strips is usually around +/- 2C [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Wicket Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi Paul, I find when fermenting ales the difference remains the same throughout the full ferment and for the next week before bottling always at 18-19c, an approx difference of 3-4c, however at lager temps of 11-12c the variance between tape and STC 1000 is minimal. Doesn't concern me, it was an interesting observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatSthAussie Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have often thought of taking some measurements with a raytech digital (Infra Red Thermometer)shooting specific sections of the FV, VS's tape thermometer throughout the fermentation process. Just for curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thank you all for advice! If you can messure it you can control it, if you can control it you can IMPROVE it! Happy brewing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I forgot about this last night, but one thing I did notice was when I had my cube of wort in the brewfridge, I also had the fermenter full of water/napisan. The first experiment I just had the probe dangling in the fridge, but when I strapped it to the cube, it took much much longer to get the temp down (which I expected given it's liquid), however it leads me to the conclusion that the insulated probe stuck to the side works fine. I turned off the STC1000 about a week ago since I don't need it on at the moment, and opened the fridge door, but kept the probe attached. It reached around 26C, and the stick on thermometers on my FV were reading practically the same. But yeah, when I get around to fermenting this batch I'll keep an eye on it, mainly out of curiosity than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatSthAussie Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thank you all for advice! If you can messure it you can control it, if you can control it you can IMPROVE it! Happy brewing Hey Flea, If you don't mind, I'm going to use this...I've always said 'If you don't measure it, you can't manage it'. I like yours better. Here's another gem.. PDMA (Plan,Do,Measure,Improve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thank you all for advice! If you can messure it you can control it, if you can control it you can IMPROVE it! Happy brewing Hey Flea, If you don't mind, I'm going to use this...I've always said 'If you don't measure it, you can't manage it'. I like yours better. Here's another gem.. PDMA (Plan,Do,Measure,Improve) No worries mate go for it! Its like the defenition of a meeting: Its where the minutes are taken and the hours get lost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 So I put my latest brew in the FV and in the brewfridge this afternoon. Stuck the temp probe for the STC1000 to the side of it insulated with foam, set it to 18C. It's now sitting on that temp, and the two stick on thermometers I have on the FV are reading 18 and about 17ish respectively. When I take an SG sample in a week's time I'll stick a thermometer in it and see what it reads but I'm guessing it will read about the same since I've got three all reading within a degree of each other already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Here is my setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 So that thing that sticks in the lid is basically a temp probe that sits in the wort itself? I thought about sticking the temp probe off mine through the airlock hole into the wort and blocking the hole with some blu-tac or something but on early observations it's not looking necessary to me. The beer is fermenting so it's obviously not too cold. Plus then I'd have something else to clean at the end of it all. [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hey Kelse, i just stick the probe to the outside of the FV with masking tape. ST is set at 20 deg with .3 deg variation and the stick on thermometer reads 20 to 22 deg. I put the slight variation down to the thermometer being out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Flea Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi Kelsey, Yep that's a ST/ST probe reading the temp inside the FV. It was laying around so I use it. This is only my first attempt with temp control and I'm enjoying it very much! It seems the longer it stays in the fridge the closer the two readings get to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi Pieter Does your experience to date indicate the need for a heating circuit to avoid overshoot? I do not see any form of heating in your pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 You real requirements are governed by your location imo. If you live in the tropics then no real need for a heat source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I do that too Nick except I insulate it with foam, you can see it on my brew day thread. I have it set to 18 with 0.3 variation at the moment. The stick ons are reading about 17, so I don't know which is more accurate but it's still within fermentation range. I haven't seen any need for a heat source yet. In my experiments with the fridge before fermenting this current brew, I had it set up exactly as it is now on the cube of wort. Set to 18. Obviously, the fridge would switch off when the temp hit 18, but it was lucky if it dropped 0.1 of a degree, if at all. The thing is, it takes a lot longer to change the temp of liquid. Even if the air in the fridge gets a touch colder, it's not going to make much difference, if any, to the wort. The air will warm up faster as well. It seems to me once you get your brew at your desired temp, there's not really any need for heating. Consider how long it takes a fridge at 4C to cool down a 375mL stubbie of beer. Usually a good 3 hours. In a -18C freezer, about an hour. I don't really think 10 minutes at whatever the brewfridge temperature is at, is going to affect 23,000mL of beer very much. But, of course if the air in the fridge or your wort is already colder, it will need some kind of heating source to warm it up to desired temperature, in which case your location would play a part in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 You real requirements are governed by your location imo. If you live in the tropics then no real need for a heat source. Hi Bill welcome back. I am in Adelaide (which gets hotter than the tropics) and never connect both heating and cooling at the same time but it is general consensus here that if you have a FV inside an insulated fridge compartment that the temperature can overshoot on the downside and therefore there is a need for a heater to be connected at the same time to correct the overshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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