Acka Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I'm trying to re-activate some coopers commercial yeast from 3 long necks in a fast time. I have the bottles(with the sugar water) in an esky at about 27-33 degrees C is this too hot? how long will it take to activate? its been 1.5 days so far its got bubbles when I shake it but i think that is still from the original fermentation. Any tips would be great thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Welcome to the Forum Acka However I would suggest that you will get more responses if you post in the Brewing Blether forum or the recipe resource, That's were all the Yeast Doctors and Brew Gurus hang out. So until PB2 moves your post or you repost you look to be stuck with me. And I have successfully re-cultured the Coopers yeast four times, and all within the past 6 weeks. I have done it by the book at 25'C and it has taken between four and six days each time. One tip though, the foam (head) that you are looking for is after you shake it. When you get a healthy head it is time to pitch. I'm not sure about the time at higher temps. Warning - Others will ask about viable cells etc, I know this is important and follow this method when rinsing from the trub, however PB2 says there is something special about the Cooper yeast that makes this work. And work it does all of my brews have fermented out in 5 days at 18'C, but I still leave them for at least 14 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Hi Acka & welcome to the forum. [happy] However I would suggest that you will get more responses if you post in the Brewing Blether forum or the recipe resource, That's were all the Yeast Doctors and Brew Gurus hang out. So until PB2 moves your post or you repost you look to be stuck with me. And I have successfully re-cultured the Coopers yeast four times, and all within the past 6 weeks. I have done it by the book at 25'C and it has taken between four and six days each time. One tip though, the foam (head) that you are looking for is after you shake it. When you get a healthy head it is time to pitch. I'm not sure about the time at higher temps. Warning - Others will ask about viable cells etc, I know this is important and follow this method when rinsing from the trub, however PB2 says there is something special about the Cooper yeast that makes this work. And work it does all of my brews have fermented out in 5 days at 18'C, but I still leave them for at least 14 days. +1 Listen to Scottie when it comes to this procedure. He's done it successfully multiple times. I'll be bottling my first brew using this procedure this coming weekend. In my only experience, it brewed very well, & I expect it to be a very nice tasting beer. Good luck with your attempt. [cool] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acka Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Thanks for the info guys. the high heat seems to have worked the mixture has a good head on it when inverted and smells like yeast. i wacket it in the wort tonight along with a little of the packet yeast just incase. See what happens. Thanks again Acka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I have done it once successfully its the only time I have done it. I made a 1.040 wort with LDM I used a 6 pack of pale ales. I decanted the beer from the bottles after they had been in the fridge for a week and a half I left the yeast in the bottom with a tiny amount of beer. I then added around a inch in the stubbies of my wort once I had done the I put sanitized gald wrap on the tops shook the living crap out of the bottles then poured the whole lot into a jar with the remaining wortput the lid on and shook it every day for about 3 - 4 days and bam it took off I let it go for about a week after with approx 2 - 2.5cm layer of yeast on the bottom shook it up and pitched it into a pale ale I made at the time and since I have washed the yeast and have reused it about 3 times now I have a few jars of it in the fridge ready for use when ever I need it. Just another option for you the malt also provides nutrient for the yeast. PB2 says to use dextrose it works allegedly I didn't do it that way but anyhow good luck with it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 PB2 says to use dextrose it works allegedly I didn't do it that way [pinched] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 . i wacket it in the wort tonight along with a little of the packet yeast just incase. Acka That's good to hear, personally I would have kept the little packet of yeast in fridge and waited a couple of days to give the re-cultured yeast a shot. I pitched my latest re-cultured yeast yesterday morning at 10:30, this morning at 08:00 it has a beautiful pure white Krausen cover. As I said this is my 4th one, the other three I pitched prior to nightshift and they were all up and going within 36 hours, possibly sooner but I wasn't in a position to check. There have been a number of allegations levelled at PB2's method, all I can say is that the yeast from the bottle mixed with Dextrose as per the posted instructions smells like yeast when pitched, behaves normally in a 23 litre wort and tastes like beer when final SG is reached. All that remains is for me is to begin taste testing of the final product. The first my Bushy Park Pale Ale is 4.5 weeks bottled so anytime now I will test and post a verdict. I am displaying some sort of weird allegiance here to Coopers, must be the gratitude I have for being introduced to the world of DIY beer. I also hope that PB2 is not insulted by the fact that an amateur is defending his procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Until a proposed experiment has been run, the dextrose re-culture method cannot be defended or opposed, I have previously put forward findings from reputable sources, it's a matter of choice to the individual brewers as what technique they adopt and I would suggest that until brewers have run their own side by side tasting of identical brews with yeast pitched with both methods that either technique can be defended or denied. As my signature says, research, test, apply Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 .. it's a matter of choice to the individual brewers as what technique they adopt ... As my signature says, research, test, apply Yob Yob This makes a lot more sense than alleging that something doesn't work without first trying it (and I am not saying you have ever done that). It may also be a progression, the DIY beer maker vs the Home Brewer. To me it feels like throwing 4 tablespoons of dex into 600ml of water with the yeast from 4 stubbies, giving it a swirl twice a day and then pitching it is easier than stepping up a yeast. Having seen your stir plate set up and read your comments, this is somewhere I will need to go. In the fridge I have around 100ml of 1275 yeast rinsed form the trub about two months ago. Viability is decreasing daily and if I intend to use it I know I will have to step it up. Now that's progression, the easy thing to do would be to tip it out and buy some more (or even a different strain) when I am ready to brew that style again. Back to the Coopers commercial yeast, my testing will be related to comparing to the kit yeast, US05 and other yeast I have used. I guess I could try rinsing from the trub but at this stage I have no immediate plans for a brew using this yeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have never said that it doesn't work. I have suggested that it's not great fkr yeast health and may affect production of enzymes in the yeast that process maltose. (According to my research) if there is evidence to the contrary I'm happy to hear it and be corrected. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Some things in life cannot be explained or even justified. They just ARE. Take a Platypus! [tongue] As far as the re-culture process goes, I don't need an explanation as to why, nor justification of how. I'm content to just accept that it works. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Im with ya beerlust if it works it works who cares why. Yob was only saying a similar thing but talking about comparing methods and getting all scientific. Was like watching the big bang therory which i also cant understand as am a simple folk. I was standing at work last night pouring peach pieces into a machine. Occasionally i had to pull a lever to release the corn flakes into tubs. At one point i looked around at all the machinery and thought i wonder how and in what machine these are made in and then thought why do i care im getting paid to stand here. I think as a human race we need to stop thinking as much look where its got our beautiful plannet [alien] [devil] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Some of the "why it works" - the yeast cells are in particularly good health when added to the beer (prior to packaging) and they only go through the one cycle of fermentation, consuming the liquid sugar (priming sugar). So, yeast in a fresh 6 pack of Coopers ale are still in great condition, ready to multiply while consuming any fermentable sugar present. Should malt be used instead of dex/sug? In this case, it's not necessary but it won't be detrimental. Should malt be used when stepping up other yeast? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I think as a human race we need to stop thinking as much look where its got our beautiful plannet [alien] [devil] I think it's the complete opposite as to why the world is going to the sh*tter... [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I also didn't state that dextrose didn't work as I said it was "alleged" it worked as I didn't try that method. I used a malt wort for sugar and some nutrients for the yeast I just wanted to give my yeast the best chance I could. I might try the dextrose method to see if there is any difference. But after doing it the way I did and had brilliant results and even used the washed yeast after and had brilliant results I know I have done it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 ....all I can say is that the yeast from the bottle mixed with Dextrose as per the posted instructions smells like yeast when pitched' date=' behaves normally in a 23 litre wort and tastes like beer when final SG is reached. All that remains is for me is to begin taste testing of the final product. The first my Bushy Park Pale Ale is 4.5 weeks bottled so anytime now I will test and post a verdict[/i']..... Well I couldn't resist and Yob does say to test. I put one in the fridge this morning to chill and went off to do some gardening. Now it's time for a break and a sampling. Nothing strange or off here, its as good as any others at 4.4 weeks and I could easily settle in for a mini session [bandit] . I was trying for a Pale Ale along the lines of JS 50 lashes although I've over cooked the ABV% (again)[innocent]. All Aussie ingredients including the yeast. Could be another best brew yet but I don't call them this early [cool] . However the argument (and I mean that in an academic way) will continue and as with all good arguments there will be proponents on both sides who can offer up research in support of their hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Here is some handy info from John Palmer LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Here is some handy info from John Palmer LINK This maybe true, because "John Palmer said so". However, one does not stop to think that there are already additional nutrients/food etc in the bottle?.. not only this but as there are 2 Hydrogen Atoms and 1 Oxygen Atom that make up water (H2O) then by simply adding water contributes to a viable yeast environment as yeast need both Nitrogen and Oxygen. Dextrose works with no adverse affects and so does wort. However, wort will contribute a little to the flavor and imo provide a higher chance of infection due to other elements, albeit not a lot where as Dextrose will not. yeast only requires the addition of a sugar in a suitable medium to start recultures. Heck you can even use Honey or something of the sort if you really want and I have no doubt this will work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Here is some handy info from John Palmer Like I said you will always find disagreement among experts. As a matter of fact this article by John Palmer recommends the use of an air lock on your yeast starter. Another brewing expert/consultant Drew Beechum when recommending brewer always make a starter for liquid yeast says "Don't use an airlock - it impedes growth". Besides that I am only talking about Coopers Commercial yeast, tried it and liked it. You know what they say "if you haven't tried it don't knock it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 John Palmer is one source another source is Brewing TV I do boil my wort and cool it down prior to putting the yeast in yes there is a chance of infection but so many brewers around the world do it that way so it must work. I endeavour to do another coopers re culture however I will most likely use a 1.040 wort with additional yeast nutrient to see if it kick starts the yeast a bit easier. [innocent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Hi Wayne. ....I endeavour to do another coopers re culture however I will most likely use a 1.040 wort with additional yeast nutrient to see if it kick starts the yeast a bit easier. Have you had trouble with the yeast getting going? I just checked my notes for my first Coopers Commercial reculture... Start temperature 20\xb0C for approx. 8hrs, then fridged @ 18\xb0C. Ferment began @ 20hrs. Steady ferment for 4-5 days. I didn't use any nutrient & thought that time-frame was fine. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Had no issue getting the commercial culture going a couple of days and it was going mad with bubbles. Just thought might try and boost the number of healthy cells by giving them a better chance with a supplemented nutrient and after I build my stir plate I will be giving them a even better chance. I have about 4 jars of washed Commercial coopers yeast in the fridge I need to use them before they go off. Yob would know the answer on how long you can store washed yeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Let me know how you get on with that computer fan re-engineered stir plate if you get it up & going. I'd be interested to see a pic of it. [wink] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Let me know how you get on with that computer fan re-engineered stir plate if you get it up & going. I'd be interested to see a pic of it. [wink] Anthony. No worries mate I will document it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I have about 4 jars of washed Commercial coopers yeast in the fridge I need to use them before they go off. Yob would know the answer on how long you can store washed yeast. The answer to that question really depends on how fussy you are about the beer you make. Experts will tell you that beer more than any other fermented beverage depends on yeast for flavor and aroma. The quality of your beer will be effected by the health of the yeast that you have chosen to do the fermentation. It is not only very important to pitch the correct quantity of yeast but also to pitch healthy yeast. Chris White (WhiteLabs) will remind you that about 4 weeks after harvesting the viability of the yeast will have dropped to 50% or less and ideally you would not want to pitch yeast that has dropped below 90% viability. I suspect this applies to rinsed yeast stored in mason jars in the fridge. I have heard of people reactivating rinsed yeast that has been stored for 6 months and more but personally I would not keep it more than 2 months under water without reactivating it in a starter, rinsing again and restoring it. You can of course go down the path of storage of yeast on slants in the freezer but given the relative simplicity of harvesting new yeast from a bottle or bottles or purchasing yeast then it really is a lot of extra work. I am about to crack a bottle of bottle conditioned Rogue Brutal IPA that I brought back from the US on the weekend and will attempt to harvest the PACMAN yeast. My favourite clone recipe is Rogue Dead Guy Ale which I have always used 05 for but want to try Pacman as that is the Rogue brewery strain and should bring it closer into line with the real thing. I strongly recommend as good reading YEAST by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff. It is a great companion for John Palmers book HOW TO BREW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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