***** Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I am sure that I'm doomed to failure. On Tuesday night I went to the trouble of drinking three Coopers Pale Ale long necks. I mixed the dregs with 600 ml of boiled water and 4 tablespoons of dex as per the instructions. Lots of CO2 has developed as the glad wrap is like an inflated balloon. However there has been no foam as per the instructions. What has been the experience of others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Im going to propperly get myself into trouble one day here... My research indicates that making a starter with DEX is a bad idea... Sorry Coopers but my reading is contrary to the methods outlined elsewhere on this site. Reason 1: it can affect the ability of yeast to create the right enzymes to ferment wort.. you have been feeding them apples for generations and then start feeding them steak.. freaks em out = stressed yeast = bad flavours reason 2: It doesnt generally contain the right sort of nutrients for parent cells to bud and create new daughter cells.. leading to poorer overall health of the yeast crop.. reason 3: I dont believe they settle down and replenish their trehlose and glycogen reserves. (Which they need to get off to a good start in your beer, The idea is getting a healthy pitch right?) I use WORT to make starters.. I hope to shortly have a supply of the same wort for starters as thats the wort they will be fermenting. First step with the bottle slurry should be in 150ml of 1030 wort for 2 days (preferably aerated) second step, pitch all of that into 500ml of 1040 wort for 24-36 Hrs (preferably aerated) Third step, pitch the 650ml into 2lt of 1040 wort for 24hrs (preferably aerated) Chill, decant liquid Pitch Yeast [annoyed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I've got a kilo of LDM and I was thinking of using it instead of Dex. However I decided to go initially with what works for everyone else. This is my second attempt, the first failure was without temp control at ambient which was only 16'C. I've kept this one at 25'C. I've got two empty FVs now and have a plan for two APA, one kit and one extract, but now the yeast is a hold up. Should I wait, pour off the beer and pitch the yeast into a one litre LDM wort as a starter? I could pitch my rinsed 1056 into a 1 litre starter, but I only have 120ml. Had the Coopers worked I was going to polish off another 3 bottles so that I could make a fair comparison between the brews. However I am back at work tomorrow night. Well tomorrow is D-day for the attempted re-culture. When I finally nail it I hope its worth it [rightful] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Nelson Amarillo, Please don't give up on the yeasties in the tallies that you're reculturing. If you do them as per instructions they should turn out fine. It worked for me on my first go and I used three 750ml pale ales like you have. I let them sit for about five days at 20 degrees, swirling them two times every day. It took a while, but on the fifth day all the bottles formed a big foamy head when swirled. I dumped the entire contents of all three bottles into the wort for the Coopers Celebration Ale and it took off! Fermented that at around 20 degrees and am drinking it now about a month later. [happy] Be patient, the Coopers yeast is a beast once it gets going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It took a while, but on the fifth day all the bottles formed a big foamy head when swirled. Hold on. Hey Reuben I get a foamy head when I swirl it but after a while it looks stagnant again, I've been waiting (expecting) for a huge Krausen to develop like when doing a starter. Based on what you say I should have pitched mine yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Based on my limited experience it sounds like you've been successful in bringing the yeasties up to healthy pitching levels. Apparently you can store them in the fridge for up to a week once that has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Based on my limited experience it sounds like you've been successful in bringing the yeasties up to healthy pitching levels. How do you know they are healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I know mine are nice and healthy when I look into the bottle and see them staring right back at me. Mine are tough little critters and when they look like this they are ready to pitch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Based on my limited experience it sounds like you've been successful in bringing the yeasties up to healthy pitching levels. Apparently you can store them in the fridge for up to a week once that has happened. Thanks Reuben No need to store them in the fridge, I am about to test them in a real life situation a 1.046 Wort. Only way for me to find out now. Hey Bill that's what I used to look like after a few beers...... when I was younger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Scott, I heard around your way people were more like... Well, until they look in the mirror the next morning and have to face reality and see... [ninja] Sorry, back OT now [innocent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I am about to test them in a real life situation a 1.046 Wort. Only way for me to find out now. Out of curiosity, have you worked out how many cells you have and or need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Out of curiosity, have you worked out how many cells you have and or need? No doubt Yob that is a good question. [unsure] I need 97 billion of them. No idea how many were in my mini ferment, I guess if I treated it the same way as rinsing from the trub I could have worked it out. But as it was most of the yeast (I bloody hope so) was still in suspension when I pitched it. But there was yeast there, after I added it I could smell it, just like after adding the kit yeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I am about to test them in a real life situation a 1.046 Wort. Only way for me to find out now. Sorry Nelson, Ive got to ask I need 97 billion of them. How have you determined this number? Based on the fact you have a 1046 wort and need 97 Billion (based on a 90% viability) it's a wort size of 11.4 Liters? if it's a 20 lt wort you need 170 Billion.. going by My Malty that is.. I only say this to help man.. an underpitch is no fun and the first time I did what you are doing (I think I used malt) it was a massive underpitch and the brew suffered for it. Those numbers are fairly important to get right. [bandit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Typo, we all make them, I have a 6.08 gallon wort = 197 billion of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 My research indicates that making a starter with DEX is a bad idea... Sorry Coopers but my reading is contrary to the methods outlined elsewhere on this site. Yob, the information you are giving other brewers on yeast management is good stuff. However, with regards to Coopers commercial yeast - it does cope quite nicely with simple sugar such as dextrose or sucrose. If I haven't mentioned it before, this is mainly because the yeast has only gone though the one fermentation cycle - it is re-vitalised yeast (same strain as that in primary) introduced to the beer at the rate of 1 million cells per ml fo the purpose of secondary fermentation. The process outlined in the post Reactivating Coopers Commercial Ale Yeast works very well[cool] and the beer made from this method can be quite outstanding. We have conducted tests on the yeast grown from this method - viability, health and fermentation characterisics - all very satisfactory. [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I have tasted a commercial Coopers Pale ale and the home brew recipe for APA with the re cultured yeast. A. was outstanding B the home brew came close to tasting like the commercial version I have since washed the same yeast and used it in other pale ales and I am liking what I am making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 However, with regards to Coopers commercial yeast - it does cope quite nicely with simple sugar such as dextrose or sucrose. If I haven't mentioned it before, this is mainly because the yeast has only gone though the one fermentation cycle - it is re-vitalised yeast (same strain as that in primary) introduced to the beer at the rate of 1 million cells per ml fo the purpose of secondary fermentation.....and the beer made from this method can be quite outstanding. Thanks Paul I was motivated by a conversation with another home brewer that I met for the first time last Saturday Night at a spit roast. He said that the beer he made with re-cultured Coopers commercial yeast was by far best he had ever made, he was adamant of this fact. I pitched my re-cultured yeast at around 1pm yesterday, this afternoon I checked and it had a nice white even Krausen. Tonight before a came to work I had another look and the Krausen is as big as any other I have had. The yeast are obviously doing a power of work. I realise this may only be part of the story, but based on what others are saying and the fast take up of this batch I am confident that I will have another great beer, perhaps it will be my "Best Home Brew Yet". So confident am I that I will be tackling another three long necks so that I can put down my extract version of the same beer, using Coopers LME and WME. The running list will now be updated to include the Celebration Ale and another crack at the Fruit Salad Ale [love]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The coopers re cultured yeast does a great job in high gravity beers I found too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yob, the information you are giving other brewers on yeast management is good stuff. [innocent] Dont get me wrong, I believe the Coopers Yeast to be a worthy and strong fermenter.. I just believe that 'aligning' yeast to the 'target' wort has its value and a blanket "you can use dex" is not really applicable to all yeasts... as such I feel that (in general) greater care is never amis when it comes to yeast health and viability. I also believe that there could be some improvement with regard to instruction of culturing procedures and how to determine if a viable pitching rate has been 'built' I'd be happy to put together a pictorial procedure if you would sticky it? So many of the pictorials get buried pretty quick here. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yob... PB2... In a cage... Each armed with a vial of yeast, random fermentables and a flask....blow off tube optional... In a fight for greater viability or to the death of millions (of yeast cells).... Ladies and gentlemen, please gather round for THE event of 2012....the fury in the brewery....the revolt using malt...THE BEASTS OF THE YEAST!!! Winner takes all...BRING.....IT........ON!!! [devil] [devil] [devil] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 [lol] [lol] Paul wins with a tag in from his Yeast Lab dude and x hectoliter brewery [lol] [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ....the fury in the brewery....the revolt using malt...THE BEASTS OF THE YEAST!!! lol, some good ones there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I was doing a bit of net surfing & came across this rare photo of Yob with a small part of his yeast collection. . . [biggrin] Muddy, your Yob vs PB2 "...fury at the brewery...", VERY funny! [lol] [lol] Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gents & Ladies,has anyone tried the Coops Commercial Yeast with everybody's favourite brew Cerveza.[lol] [lol] [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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