First time using grains

[AndyG4]

I'm just home from the home brew shop where the tremendously friendly and helpful home brew bloke helped me learn all about how to use them.

 

i've got a stout kit

1.5kg of light liquid malt

i've got crystal, chocolate, and a roasted wheat malt, with instructions to use about 250g of each.

i'm going to crack them and steep them in about 2.5 litres of water.

i'm going to strain out the the grains, boil the liquid and add my hops.

 

the question if forgot to ask - do i need to add any DME to this mixture, or will the malt from the grains create a decent enough wort for the hops to do their thing?

 

i'm hoping someone can help me soon! i'm hoping to brew tomorrow - if i need DME, I need to go get some...

[Smithy]

750g should be close enough to 1040 on a 5L boil I'd say. Haven't done the figures though.

 

Have you got Ianh's kit and extract spreadsheet? That will do all the thinking for you [cool]

[AndyG4]

thanks, i hadn't thought of using that.

 

dammit - i ran the whole recipe through the spreadsheet and need to go get some dme :(

[Guest]

why do you need the dme?

 

[AndyG4]

for the boil - according to the spreadsheet, i need about 200g of dme to get a SG of 1040 in the "grain water" to add hops too.

 

i'd be very happy for you to tell me not to bother though...

[Guest]

Yeah no need to bother.... you are getting malt from your grain and if need be add the extra from the 1.5kg light liquid malt you have.

 

After the boil empty the rest of the ingredients into your pot and leave for a minute or 2 then cool in an ice bath or similar

[AndyG4]

brilliant :)

 

saved me a trip back to the brew shop...

 

if i'm going to chill about 15l of water, do i need to mix my ingredients in the pot then put into the ice bath? or can i just mix it together in the fermenter as usual?

 

if you strongly recommend the ice bath method, when do i get rid of the hop remnants?

[Hairy]

If it is only 2 litres or so you probably don't have to chill but I still would. Its good to practice it and allows you to sanitise the FV whilst it is cooling.

 

And you probably won't need any ice for that quantity either but if you have a few ice bricks then throw them in (in the sink not the pot).

 

I usually whirlpool the liquid with a spoon once I take it off the boil and then place in the ice bath. This forces the trub to bottom centre of the pot.

 

For 2 litres you probably only need to leave it for 10 minutes.

 

Then pour it through a strainer into the FV. Because you have whirlpooled it you will find that most of the liquid has been poured off before you reach the trub.

[AndyG4]

i see...

 

well, that all sounds pretty easy.

 

i don't need to go to the LHBS - but i do now need to go to Big W to get a bigger pot :P

[Guest]

LMAO... get the 19L $20 jobby and do a 5L boil.

Now all you need is a bit of Swiss Voile or a bag then you can start AG [w00t] [whistling

[AndyG4]

you wouldn't believe i could go to Big W, the Reject Shop, Coles and Woolies and not be able to find a pot bigger than 7.8 litres.

 

Kmart is the winner - a 15 litre pot for 15 bucks [biggrin]

 

so in reading this thread, as well as Yob's description of the process, I just wanted to get some things really clear.

 

(questions at the end)

 

Step 1: Crack grains

 

Step 2: Steep grains in 70 degrees (which will go down to about 65 degrees when grains are added).

 

Step 3: Strain the water into bigger pot.

 

Step 4: Boil water, add hops.

 

Step 5: Take off the boil, leave for about 30 minutes to leave aroma hops to steep. (sanitise fermenter and rehydrate yeast)

 

Step 6: Add liquid malt and kit.

 

Step 7: Whirlpool it

 

Step 8: Ice bath to cool it.

 

Step 9: Strain liquid into fermenter.

 

Step 10: Add water and yeast.

 

 

So, my questions:

 

- is this in the right order? should I whirlpool before adding liquid malt and kit? or after? or both?

 

- Yob's post talks about siphoning the liquid away from the hop remnants before adding malt and kit - from this thread I'm of the impression that I can leave it in there (and leave it in there while it's in the ice bath) and just strain the hops out when pouring into the fermenter. does it matter which method i use? (if i do this I'll have to re-order the pot usage)

 

- if i leave the hops in there and strain out as the final stage before going into the fermenter, will the kit and liquid malt be thinned out enough to get through the strainer?

 

- am i better off using a big strainer? or a colander? (some of the stuff will get through the colander).

 

- my brew bloke suggested about 2.5 litres for 750g grain. in reading this thread, am I correct in thinking that 5 litres with a little bit of my liquid malt going in before I boil the hops is a better option?

 

 

thanks for all the help guys... the guy at the brew shop made it sound so easy - then i started reading and got myself confused again [crying]

 

still, i'm really excited to get it all going tomorrow [cool]

[Hairy]

So, my questions:

 

- is this in the right order? should I whirlpool before adding liquid malt and kit? or after? or both?

 

- Yob's post talks about siphoning the liquid away from the hop remnants before adding malt and kit - from this thread I'm of the impression that I can leave it in there (and leave it in there while it's in the ice bath) and just strain the hops out when pouring into the fermenter. does it matter which method i use? (if i do this I'll have to re-order the pot usage)

 

- if i leave the hops in there and strain out as the final stage before going into the fermenter, will the kit and liquid malt be thinned out enough to get through the strainer?

 

- am i better off using a big strainer? or a colander? (some of the stuff will get through the colander).

 

- my brew bloke suggested about 2.5 litres for 750g grain. in reading this thread, am I correct in thinking that 5 litres with a little bit of my liquid malt going in before I boil the hops is a better option?

 

I would just add the liquid malt and the kit to the FV after you have strained the liquid in. You can add it to the pot before whirlpooling but there is no need.

 

There is no need to siphon if you are using a strainer. Just leave the hop debris in the pot whilst cooling and then strain.

 

If you have a strainer, use that rather than a colander. Try to keep as much hop debris out of the FV as possible.

 

If you are using 2-3 litres to steep the grains and you want to do a 5 litre hop boil then just add an extra 2 litres of water and some malt to the big pot for your hop boil. You can bring this extra water to the boil before you finish steeping the grain to speed up the process.

 

I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

Anyway, you will be fine. You really have to work hard to stuff it up.

[Guest]

I wouldn't bother with step 5. Remove from heat and add remaining ingredients put the lid on and leave it for a couple of minutes then chill. I also wouldn't bother whirlpooling if you are going to tip the pot anyway and have no whirfloc or similar.

 

A 5L boil is better then a 2.5L boil. Do the 5L if you can.

 

A strainer is fine to use. No need for anything bigger, I use one of these

 

 

[AndyG4]

thanks heaps for the advice lads. the wort is mixed just in time for the footy to start :)

 

it was much more labor intensive, and much messier - bless living alone, i was able to chuck out the rubbish, give everything a rinse, and leave the clean up til after the footy.

 

but despite the increased labour, it was one of the more straight forward brews that i've done.

 

here's the steps i went through - i typed this up for my brew diary, and thought i might as well post here. Coopers exclusive notes (and questions!) are in brackets :P

 

Crystal malt, chocolate malt and roasted wheat malt were all crushed - 250g each. (i originally used a mortar and pestel at the suggestion of the brew bloke. i ended up using a coffee grinder on it's course setting. i was a bit worried that it'd make too much "powder", but it wasn't making any more powder than the mortar and pestel were.)

 

steeped for 30 minutes. 3l water started at 70 degrees before grains were added. water was down to 59 degrees after half an hour wrapped up with a doona.

 

started rehydrating s-33 yeast. used the Palmer method, but on advice from Coopers forum, waited til the water was down to 30 degrees to add yeast.

 

grains were strained - very messy. need a bigger strainer. kept getting clogged up and needed to be emptied quite a few times.

 

added 2l boiling water and about 20% of a can of light malt extract.

 

turned gas stove on to boil, had been on about a minute when i realised that i'd forgotten the oats.

 

unsure if it'll do anything, but turned the stove top down and put 150g rolled oats into a steralised colander and sat it in the water for about 10 minutes.

 

turned water up to boil.

 

added 23g fuggles hops @ 10 mins.

 

added 22g fuggles hops @ 0 mins.

 

added 1 can black rock extra miners stout.

 

added rest of the LLM

 

used about another 1l of boiling water to slosh around in the cans.

 

put it in ice bath for about 20 mins.

 

strained mix into FV. again, strainer too small. clogged quite a few times and had to be emptied. (need a bigger strainer, or a third hand.)

 

added about 14l of water chilled overnight to 6 degrees. (made a huge mess of the bath tub from "dropping" the water from height for some aeration)

 

added about 4l of tap water, up to 23l in the FV.

 

water temp was a perfect 20 degrees ([cool])

 

OG was 1056

 

added yeast, which was foamy. (i've had success with rehydrating yeast before, but this was by far and away the best looking foam i've had)

 

little stir to mix it through.

 

(it's now sitting happily in the fridge set to 18 degrees, and i've now mastered using the temp probe as the termostat - it sits against the FV with a big foam stubby holder around it, turned inside out, cardboard over the top, and tied on tightly with... the worst, ugliest, cheapest tie i own.

 

necessity really is the mother of all invention.

 

and afterwards? i savour a coopers extra stout while the footy is on. if my stout tastes half as good as this, i'll be thrilled.)

 

OG was 1056.

 

predicted FG is 1018, giving an alcohol content of about 5.3% after priming.

 

the beer designer gives it 31 IBUs, which i'm happy with for my first attempt at a stout, and is right on the low end of what the spreadsheet says for an Australian stout, but that was by design.

 

predicted ECB is around 149, which is well over what the spreadsheet suggests, but i'm not too fussed about this.

 

(a satisfying, enjoyable, albeit messy brew day [biggrin] )

[PhilboBaggins]

Holy crap dude, sounds like you had your work cut out for you. I'm using grains for the first time tomorrow, but I'm taking baby steps. Just wanted to steep 250g Caramalt (this is the one the brew shop suggested to try first) and add to an amber ale type experiment I'm messing with. I've been using hop additions and all malts for a while now and it seemed to be the next logical step. I progress so slowly it's amazing I get anywhere at all [crying]

 

I'm using an OS Lager can, 1.5kg amber LME, 250g Caramalt grains, 25g EKG hops. Will start rehydrating some ale yeast in the morning and brew in the evening. All the reading I've done on this forum about grains is sure to serve me well. I don't know how people ever got by without all this advice on hand.

 

Let us know how it turns out Andy!

[Hairy]

Well done Andy!

 

Your brew day sounded much harder than it should have been. You will tweak your processes as you do other brews and work out what works for you.

[Guest]

Yeah good job Andy, it will become easier as you refine your process. 750g grain in a Mortar and Pestle would have been a buggar. (I never thought of the amount) 250-300g is ok but any more can be a pain. I am surprised your HBS didn't offer to mill it for you.

 

It was not necessary to aerate it. Nevertheless, a good result no doubt.

 

Cheers

[Smithy]

Will start rehydrating some ale yeast in the morning and brew in the evening.

 

Are you going to be rehydrating or making a starter?

 

I've heard that with just rehydrating (in plain water) can be detrimental to the yeast if left for more than half hour. I'm not sure on the science of it, but I think it has something to do with the yeast not being able to eat anything and prone to infection?

 

I just get my rehydration water ready while I'm brewing, and chuck the yeast in half hour before I think I'll be down to pitching temp. Seems to work well for me.

 

But there are many many ways to skin a cat, so whichever produces the best skinless cat for you is what you'll do!

 

 

[Guest]

Provided sanitary conditions are adhered then I believe yeast is fine in water. However, if only rehydrating then Smithy is correct, you only need 15-30 minutes. Just rehydrate as your first thing to do then by the time you have finished it should be right to add.

[AndyG4]

Yeah good job Andy, it will become easier as you refine your process. 750g grain in a Mortar and Pestle would have been a buggar. (I never thought of the amount) 250-300g is ok but any more can be a pain. I am surprised your HBS didn't offer to mill it for you.

 

It was not necessary to aerate it. Nevertheless, a good result no doubt.

 

Cheers

 

he had 1kg bags of uncracked and 1kg bags of cracked grains.

 

i'm not going to get another brew fridge in the forseeable future, so i got the uncracked grains because he said they'll store for longer.

 

i wasn't afraid of a bit of elbow work - until i started doing it :P

 

i have seen a grain mill on the internet for under $100, so it might be worth some further investment.

 

along with that bloody strainer.

 

by way of an update, the beer looks and smells great. i nice thick krausen on it which i can actually see bubbling away. spewing that it'll be so long before i can drink it

 

 

edit:

 

supplementary question - how do others store their grains? i bagged these into airtight seal bags (after squeezing as much air out as i could) - i measured them into 250g bags.

 

i have them in the fridge at the moment, is this the best way to store them?

[Guest]

being vacume packed i dont think the fridge will hurt not sure never done it. If there only 250 gram packs and you plan on brewing regularly a dark cupboard will do fine especially now things are cooling down in most of Aus

[Guest]

Yeah even though a fridge should be fine you can just store them in a cool dark cupboard somewhere.

 

I have mine stored in their original grain bags in 75L bins in the garage.

[*****]

{snip} & {Paste}

strainer too small. clogged quite a few times and had to be emptied. (need a bigger strainer, or a third hand.)

{snip}

...... it might be worth some further investment.

along with that bloody strainer. {snip}

Cheers

 

 

Not sure about a larger strainer Andy, if the strainer doesn't clog then the grain ends up in the FV. I used Roasted Barley for the first time, in my Irish Red, and was shocked by how the rolling pin pulverised them. Most of the Barley grains went straight through my sieve leaving me wanting a smaller one. The one I've got filters out Crystal Grains OK. I am lucky though as I have a third and fourth hand, belonging to my 15 year old daughter, when it comes to straining the grains.

[PhilboBaggins]

Well, mine's been kicking along at 20 degrees since Sat now, and the yeast looks and smells fine. When I rehydrate I take loads of care with cleanliness, but I'll take everyone's advice and hold off until later next time.

 

I cracked my grains in a sandwich bag with a rolling pin, but still got a bit of the powder in for my boil. Hope this won't affect the taste too much, but I'll keep everyone posted.

[AndyG4]

bugger... i knew it was all going too smoothly!

 

i wasn't going to bother CCing this one, it's a stout with EBC in excess of 140.

 

hoping to bottle tomorrow, i took the SG today... it's still at 1025 after spending 13 days at 17.8 degrees and 2 days at 19.5 degrees.

 

this is too high - the brew spreadsheet suggested FG would be about 1018.

 

what to do? would you bottle it tomorrow (assuming its still 1025), or would you chuck in a coopers yeast and try and get it going again? (i have plenty of the coopers yeast in the fridge, i never use it)