Bloody Ruby Porter.

[Oldbloke]

Well,, that's disappointing. For the first time in perhaps 5 or 6 years I've had a brew refuse to ferment. Actually can't remember when this happened last, if at all.

Few weeks ago I bought from the LHBS a can of THOMAS COOPERS DEVIL'S HALF RUBY PORTER.

When I opened it yesterday i noticed it was about 3 months past best before date.

Yesterday into the FV along with 500g Dried Ale Malt and 100g corn syrup. Had to let it cool for about 2 hours and pitched the special yeast at abt 24c.  Set the inkbird at my usual 19c. 

This morning, dead, nothing happening. Abt lunch time decided to put in a coopers yeast sachet I had. Here it is 9pm only the slightest activity. 

 

Not looking good. Check in the morning.

[kmar92]

3 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Well,, that's disappointing. For the first time in perhaps 5 or 6 years I've had a brew refuse to ferment. Actually can't remember when this happened last, if at all.

Few weeks ago I bought from the LHBS a can of THOMAS COOPERS DEVIL'S HALF RUBY PORTER.

When I opened it yesterday i noticed it was about 3 months past best before date.

Yesterday into the FV along with 500g Dried Ale Malt and 100g corn syrup. Had to let it cool for about 2 hours and pitched the special yeast at abt 24c.  Set the inkbird at my usual 19c. 

This morning, dead, nothing happening. Abt lunch time decided to put in a coopers yeast sachet I had. Here it is 9pm only the slightest activity. 

 

Not looking good. Check in the morning.

I doubt that there is any problem with the can of Devil's Half Ruby, even though it was a little old. They usually just get a little darker with age due to Maillard reaction but they still contain the needed sugars for a ferment. I would suspect more that it was a yeast problem @Oldbloke, you didn't say what the yeast was, just that it was a special yeast.

Besides all that dry yeasts usually take 24 - 48 hrs to fire up anyway so if you only pitched yesterday maybe the yeast is still going through it's lag phase before it really gets going?

[Oldbloke]

Yeh  won't be the can. Not ideal but not really concerned about 2 or 3 months past it.

It wasn't the usual yeast, different sachet.  Thomas Cooper yeast. I reckon it was the yeast.

But,  18hrs,  usually some pretty obvious activity. It was dead flat.  I've used older yeast and been ok. The spare sachet I had is abt 16months old.  Sitting nicely on 19.4c ATM. 

 

I'll check again in the morning.  

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Oldbloke

[iBooz2]

@Oldbloke , I am well aware that you are knowledgeable about brewing as you have probably been doing it as long as I have been (almost).  First sign of activity as you should know is condensate on the inside of the FV.  This tells you that the yeast are moving from the adaption phase into the growth phase.  Being flat as a tack (no Krausen) is not an indication at all.  I have had some lager brews ferment out nearly completely without showing much Krausen and I would not have known had I not done SG tests.

Not only is it the age of the can of extract that needs to be taken into consideration but also the storage regime.  All is OK if it is stored in a nice cool environment for the whole time up and until 3 - 6 months past it's use by date but if it has been sitting in a hot shop front for a couple of years since the retailer bought it then the yeast will be well and truly stuffed.  The can can be nearly cooked, but it will still have sufficient sugars in it to support fermentation.  IMO the yeast has had too much die back and not enough survived to do the job.

I agree you can buy out of date cans, but you must combat this with fresh and active yeast if you want to see early results.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by iBooz2

[Oldbloke]

@iBooz2

Agree.  Your 100% correct about storage. But LHBS shop is popular so likely high turnover. Who knows?

I don't recall one as flat is this before.  Occasionally slow and little Krausen but there was a small amount of condensation inside.  I'll check again shortly  abt 8am

You have prompted me to test the sg today.  Good idea.  I don't usually bother.  But should do it this time.

Thx

[Oldbloke]

Aha,,,lots of froth. It's off like a rocket. 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

This is one of the reasons why i ALWAYS make a starter. If using dried malt in the brew you can make the starter 24 hours beforehand with 200gm of the 500 and 2L of water. Get the yeast going and if half the packet was dead it will get it back up to or exceed the original yeast count. Then when you make your batch 24 hours later just pour the whole lot in. 

[Oldbloke]

15 minutes ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

This is one of the reasons why i ALWAYS make a starter. If using dried malt in the brew you can make the starter 24 hours beforehand with 200gm of the 500 and 2L of water. Get the yeast going and if half the packet was dead it will get it back up to or exceed the original yeast count. Then when you make your batch 24 hours later just pour the whole lot in. 

Sooo,  I think in 35years this is the first, perhaps second time this has happened. Perhaps once a year one (1 in 10)  is a bit sluggish to fire up but this was unusually slow, if at all.

Chuck it in, stir, and the starter is happening in the FV.  Didn't happen this time  (brew No 640) But this is why I always have a couple of spare sachets and rotate them around so they don't get too old.

 

Yes to be 100% do a starter. Havnt done one of them for many years. Next time I do a couple close together I'll use some trub from the first to start the second brew giving me an additional sachet again.

 

The annoying thing for me is the beer will possibly taste a bit different now. 

And it's the first Ruby Porter I've tried.

[Oldbloke]

@Coopers DIY Beer Team

Hi,

Just wondering how the "best before" date is determined?