Coopers DIY Beer Stout: Need your help, guys!

[Brewkid]

Hello everyone,

First time brewer here, based in the Philippines.
I plan to start brewing with:

- Coopers DIY Beer Stout, 23l
- Lallemand LalBrew Voss Kviek Ale Yeast.
- Dextrose? Maltodextrin? Lactose? Brown Sugar? Muscovado?

Here are my questions:

1. Kveik is the only type of yeast that we can use here, considering the climate. How many grams do you guys recommend using for this recipe? I heard Kveik can develop strong orange esters under certain conditions. I don't mind a slight citrus/orange feel but it shouldn't be too strong for it doesn't really match the style of stout.

2. I know Coopers recommend using their brew enhancers as a substitute for sugar. Unfortunately, these products aren't available here, nor DME/LME. However, dextrose, lactose and maltodextrin are available. Regarding sugars, we have white, brown and muscovado sugar. Regarding this information, what sugar bill do you recommend? Ideally, I would like my stout to be dry (not sweet) with a good creamy body (lactose? maltodextrin?), roasted flavors and a caramel feel. But I'm not really sure how to achieve this.

3. Last question: what type of sugar (dextrose, white, brown, muscovado...) do you guys recommend using for priming? In which quantity? I will use 50cl glass bottles, if it helps.

Thank you so much for reading this message and a special thanks for all of you who will answer and try to help.

Cheers!

Edited November 23, 2023 by Brewkid

[Kegory]

Welcome to the forum Brewkid.

Coopers have 3 Brew Enhancers and also a Brewing Sugar. Brewing Sugar is 80% dextrose & 20% maltodextrin. Brew Enhancer 1 is 60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin. You could in theory make your own versions of those two. The other two Brew Enhancers contain Light Dry Malt so if that is unavailable there's not much you can do unless you can get someone to send it to you in Balikbayan box.

I haven't used that yeast so I can't say much about it but I have heard that a lot of people prefer to underpitch it. If you've got one packet I would just use that one packet.

Personally, I have been experimenting with different priming sugars to see how they affect the beer. I would say dextrose will leave it a little creamier than white sugar but white sugar (if used in the same amount) will make it a fraction drier but also more carbonated. What method are you using to prime the bottles? If you are priming each bottle directly you could experiment with different priming sugars in different bottles. That's what I've been doing. Mark the caps so you know which is which. Here is a priming sugar calculator you can use to work out how much you need.

[Malter White]

Hi Brewkid.
You sound fairly knowledgeable for a first time brewer.
While I haven't used Kveik yeast before and you want a drier stout I would avoid using lactose. I'm pretty sure lactose won't ferment much and will add sweetness to your beer.
I reckon if you use a combination of dextrose, brown sugar and maltodextrin you'll get some of the characteristics you described above.
 

[Brewkid]

Thanks to both of you for your answers!

I guess mimicking the Brew Enhancer 1 (60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin) would be a safe bet.

On the other hand, I wonder how muscovado sugar (I live on the island where it is actually produced) would taste.
Have you guys tried using this sugar before, for fermentation and/or priming?

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, Malter White said:

Hi Brewkid.
You sound fairly knowledgeable for a first time brewer.
While I haven't used Kveik yeast before and you want a drier stout I would avoid using lactose. I'm pretty sure lactose won't ferment much and will add sweetness to your beer.
I reckon if you use a combination of dextrose, brown sugar and maltodextrin you'll get some of the characteristics you described above.
 

Yeah, that would work, lose the lactose. I packet of Kveik would be fine.

https://chainlessbrew.com/maltodextrin-in-beer/

[Malter White]

4 minutes ago, Brewkid said:

Thanks to both of you for your answers!

I guess mimicking the Brew Enhancer 1 (60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin) would be a safe bet.

On the other hand, I wonder how muscovado sugar (I live on the island where it is actually produced) would taste.
Have you guys tried using this sugar before, for fermentation and/or priming?

I wasn't familiar with muscovado sugar until you wrote about it, so I Googled it. Sounds like it's similar to brown sugar and will give you toffee notes.

[Kegory]

9 minutes ago, Brewkid said:

Thanks to both of you for your answers!

I guess mimicking the Brew Enhancer 1 (60% dextrose and 40% maltodextrin) would be a safe bet.

On the other hand, I wonder how muscovado sugar (I live on the island where it is actually produced) would taste.
Have you guys tried using this sugar before, for fermentation and/or priming?

Negros? I want to go there to do some scuba diving.

I haven't used it. I don't know what it would do but I guess it would lean towards the caramel you are looking for.

[Brewkid]

4 minutes ago, Malter White said:

I wasn't familiar with muscovado sugar until you wrote about it, so I Googled it. Sounds like it's similar to brown sugar and will give you toffee notes.

Great! Might go for 30% dextrose, 30% muscovado, 40% maltodextrin.

[Brewkid]

2 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Negros? I want to go there to do some scuba diving.

I haven't used it. I don't know what it would do but I guess it would lean towards the caramel you are looking for.

Yes, I live in Sipalay, one of the top spots for scuba diving.
Actually, it's my other project for December, with homebrewing 

[Brewkid]

14 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Yeah, that would work, lose the lactose. I packet of Kveik would be fine.

https://chainlessbrew.com/maltodextrin-in-beer/

Thank you for your help!

Now, Coopers give a 7g yeast packet with their DIY Stout (which I will not use, for temp reasons).
Kviek Voss goes in 11g packets. Wouldn't using a whole packet have negative effects on the beer, like off flavor or excessive orange taste? Just asking.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, Brewkid said:

Thank you for your help!

Now, Coopers give a 7g yeast packet with their DIY Stout (which I will not use, for temp reasons).
Kviek Voss goes in 11g packets. Wouldn't using a whole packet have negative effects on the beer, like off flavor or excessive orange taste? Just asking.

No, you can use the whole pack, it's a great yeast & thrives in hotter climates/temperatures.

[Kegory]

1 minute ago, Brewkid said:

Thank you for your help!

Now, Coopers give a 7g yeast packet with their DIY Stout (which I will not use, for temp reasons).
Kviek Voss goes in 11g packets. Wouldn't using a whole packet have negative effects on the beer, like off flavor or excessive orange taste? Just asking.

11g is a standard pitch rate for a 23L ale. It should be fine. I think the dark malts in the stout will stop any excessive orange taste. The darker malts went a long way to disguising the flaws in some of my beers.

[Kegory]

8 minutes ago, Brewkid said:

Yes, I live in Sipalay, one of the top spots for scuba diving.
Actually, it's my other project for December, with homebrewing 

If you can get me the recipe for SM Cerveza Negra I'll bring a few kilos of Light Dry Malt in my suitcase for you.

[Kegory]

12 minutes ago, Brewkid said:

Great! Might go for 30% dextrose, 30% muscovado, 40% maltodextrin.

Sounds like a good plan.

[Brewkid]

1 minute ago, Kegory said:

If you can get me the recipe for SM Cerveza Negra I'll bring a few kilos of Light Dry Malt in my suitcase for you.

Yeah we have cerveza negra here, but you should taste the blanca as well. Even tastier!

[Kegory]

1 minute ago, Brewkid said:

Yeah we have cerveza negra here, but you should taste the blanca as well. Even tastier!

I haven't tried the blanca but I'll make a point of doing so. Cheers.

[ChairmanDrew]

I made a coffee stout using the coopers kit. Added a few shots of espresso and 100gm of lactose to the wort, came out great. I used LME for the fermentables, but if you don't mind it dry I guess dextrose will do. Just don't go too crazy putting too much in.

[Brewkid]

54 minutes ago, ChairmanDrew said:

I made a coffee stout using the coopers kit. Added a few shots of espresso and 100gm of lactose to the wort, came out great. I used LME for the fermentables, but if you don't mind it dry I guess dextrose will do. Just don't go too crazy putting too much in.

Thank you! Regarding the fermentation, I plan using 30% dextrose, 30% muscovado, 40% maltodextrin.

[Aussiekraut]

15 hours ago, Brewkid said:

Hello everyone,

First time brewer here, based in the Philippines.
I plan to start brewing with:

- Coopers DIY Beer Stout, 23l
- Lallemand LalBrew Voss Kviek Ale Yeast.
- Dextrose? Maltodextrin? Lactose? Brown Sugar? Muscovado?

Here are my questions:

1. Kveik is the only type of yeast that we can use here, considering the climate. How many grams do you guys recommend using for this recipe? I heard Kveik can develop strong orange esters under certain conditions. I don't mind a slight citrus/orange feel but it shouldn't be too strong for it doesn't really match the style of stout.

2. I know Coopers recommend using their brew enhancers as a substitute for sugar. Unfortunately, these products aren't available here, nor DME/LME. However, dextrose, lactose and maltodextrin are available. Regarding sugars, we have white, brown and muscovado sugar. Regarding this information, what sugar bill do you recommend? Ideally, I would like my stout to be dry (not sweet) with a good creamy body (lactose? maltodextrin?), roasted flavors and a caramel feel. But I'm not really sure how to achieve this.

3. Last question: what type of sugar (dextrose, white, brown, muscovado...) do you guys recommend using for priming? In which quantity? I will use 50cl glass bottles, if it helps.

Thank you so much for reading this message and a special thanks for all of you who will answer and try to help.

Cheers!

I personally would use about 1.2-1.5kg of dried malt extract as the primary addition to the beer and either some maltodextrin for a little more body or if you want a bit of a silky smoothness to the beer, add some lactose. It adds body and a slight sweetness. 250g of either should do. Of course, you can use dextrose but it will give you a thin beer. Dextrose doesn't do much to beer besides adding alcohol. If you want body and mouthfeel, you need to go with malt and other adjuncts.

As for priming, I used dextrose for priming in most cases but have used DME as well. Stouts are a little less carbonated than other beers, so go easy. I'd bulk prime with maybe 150g of dextrose dissolved in 250ml of warm water. Gently stir it into the beer, where gently is the keyword. You don't want to oxygenate it, so don't splash, just ensure you have an even spread. Let it rest for 30 minutes and then bottle. 

I can't really comment on Kveik because haven't had any success using it but that is just a personal experience, others swear by it. 1 pack of Kveik should do. Keep in mind that it likes it hot and I have heard from people that it doesn't do much under 25C but I guess you don't have that problem there  

[Kegory]

20 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

I personally would use about 1.2-1.5kg of dried malt extract as the primary addition to the beer and either some maltodextrin for a little more body or if you want a bit of a silky smoothness to the beer, add some lactose. It adds body and a slight sweetness. 250g of either should do. Of course, you can use dextrose but it will give you a thin beer. Dextrose doesn't do much to beer besides adding alcohol. If you want body and mouthfeel, you need to go with malt and other adjuncts.

As for priming, I used dextrose for priming in most cases but have used DME as well. Stouts are a little less carbonated than other beers, so go easy. I'd bulk prime with maybe 150g of dextrose dissolved in 250ml of warm water. Gently stir it into the beer, where gently is the keyword. You don't want to oxygenate it, so don't splash, just ensure you have an even spread. Let it rest for 30 minutes and then bottle. 

I can't really comment on Kveik because haven't had any success using it but that is just a personal experience, others swear by it. 1 pack of Kveik should do. Keep in mind that it likes it hot and I have heard from people that it doesn't do much under 25C but I guess you don't have that problem there  

Brewkid can't get DME unfortunately.

[Kegory]

@Brewkid I was looking at your (same) question on another forum and that gave me a couple of ideas.

Can you get any other extract cans? Can you get unhopped extract cans? If you can you might be able to substitute a can for the dry malt and brew enhancer. Maybe a low bitterness can like Mexican Cerveza would do the trick. You could even add some lactose for body if you did that because the residual sweetness could counteract the additional bitterness.

And someone suggested a brewing calculator. There is a brewing calculator on this site, the Ian H Spreadsheet, which is designed for Coopers Extract cans.

[Kegory]

5 hours ago, Kegory said:

@Brewkid I was looking at your (same) question on another forum and that gave me a couple of ideas.

Can you get any other extract cans? Can you get unhopped extract cans? If you can you might be able to substitute a can for the dry malt and brew enhancer. Maybe a low bitterness can like Mexican Cerveza would do the trick. You could even add some lactose for body if you did that because the residual sweetness could counteract the additional bitterness.

And someone suggested a brewing calculator. There is a brewing calculator on this site, the Ian H Spreadsheet, which is designed for Coopers Extract cans.

Actually, IIRC, the Pale Ale can is a good one to go with the Stout can.

[Brewkid]

8 hours ago, Kegory said:

@Brewkid I was looking at your (same) question on another forum and that gave me a couple of ideas.

Can you get any other extract cans? Can you get unhopped extract cans? If you can you might be able to substitute a can for the dry malt and brew enhancer. Maybe a low bitterness can like Mexican Cerveza would do the trick. You could even add some lactose for body if you did that because the residual sweetness could counteract the additional bitterness.

And someone suggested a brewing calculator. There is a brewing calculator on this site, the Ian H Spreadsheet, which is designed for Coopers Extract cans.

The shop only has three types of cans: Blonde, Dark Ale and Stout.

I know someone brew a "toucan" stout combining Dark Ale and Stout together but I would rather use the Stout only, because I'm afraid the mix of both may compromise the "stoutness" of the beer 

Regarding Muscovado sugar, I have learnt that it was some kind of "molasses":

It tastes great, but I'm afraid using too much of it would make the beer too sweet or give a weird taste 

Right now, my sugar bill would be an imitation of Cooper Brew Extract 1 (60% dextrose, 40% maltodextrin).
So I would use 30% dextrose, 30% muscovado, 40% maltodextrin.

1. Is it too much muscovado, in your opinion? If yes, how should I modify my bill?

2. I have heard muscovado is not totally fermentable, what consequence can it have on the beer?

Thank you again to all of you for your answers and help! 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Brewkid

[Kegory]

39 minutes ago, Brewkid said:

The shop only has three types of cans: Blonde, Dark Ale and Stout.

I know someone brew a "toucan" stout combining Dark Ale and Stout together but I would rather use the Stout only, because I'm afraid the mix of both may compromise the "stoutness" of the beer 

Regarding Muscovado sugar, I have learnt that it was some kind of "molasses":

It tastes great, but I'm afraid using too much of it would make the beer too sweet or give a weird taste 

Right now, my sugar bill would be an imitation of Cooper Brew Extract 1 (60% dextrose, 40% maltodextrin).
So I would use 30% dextrose, 30% muscovado, 40% maltodextrin.

1. Is it too much muscovado, in your opinion? If yes, how should I modify my bill?

2. I have heard muscovado is not totally fermentable, what consequence can it have on the beer?

Thank you again to all of you for your answers and help! 

Blonde would be good, IMO. Many of the recipes in the Recipe section of this website use two cans. Anyway, that's something to consider for the future.

I would be tempted, in your situation, to use 30% muscovado.

Not totally fermentable is good. It will add body to the beer, make it more "stouty." There will be a certain amount of unfermentables in the stout can. If everything was fermentable you'd end up with something similar to vodka, alcholic water with no taste.

[Kegory]

44 minutes ago, Brewkid said:

 

I know someone brew a "toucan" stout combining Dark Ale and Stout together but I would rather use the Stout only, because I'm afraid the mix of both may compromise the "stoutness" of the beer 

 

I think @Oldbloke tried that.