adding malt after 5 days?

[worry wort]

HI guys, have a question I can't find a direct answer to.

I put a brew down 5 days ago, one of the ingredients was missing, malt, but I went ahead anyway thinking it wouldn't make too much difference. It did. tasted the wort today and its not something I'd like to have 30 bottles of, however if I must, I must. Anyway, my Q is, is it now too late to add 250g of LDM to the batch? My plan would be dissolve it prior and stir it in, but was wondering if anyone has found themselves trying this late-add malt?

cheers

WorryWort.

 

[Aussiekraut]

11 minutes ago, worry wort said:

HI guys, have a question I can't find a direct answer to.

I put a brew down 5 days ago, one of the ingredients was missing, malt, but I went ahead anyway thinking it wouldn't make too much difference. It did. tasted the wort today and its not something I'd like to have 30 bottles of, however if I must, I must. Anyway, my Q is, is it now too late to add 250g of LDM to the batch? My plan would be dissolve it prior and stir it in, but was wondering if anyone has found themselves trying this late-add malt?

cheers

WorryWort.

 

At 5 days, it's probably finished and the yeast is preparing to go nanights but you should be able to reactivate it. I'd dissolve it and give it a quick boil or at least dissolve it in boiling water, just to kill anything that shouldn't be there. Cool it down to pitching temperature and add it to the FV. Take a new SG reading and watch what happens.

Unusual but it's a rescue mission, so give it a shot. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

10 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

At 5 days, it's probably finished and the yeast is preparing to go nanights but you should be able to reactivate it. I'd dissolve it and give it a quick boil or at least dissolve it in boiling water, just to kill anything that shouldn't be there. Cool it down to pitching temperature and add it to the FV. Take a new SG reading and watch what happens.

Unusual but it's a rescue mission, so give it a shot. 

Good answer AK, I made a similar faux pas years ago & I had put Dextrose in instead of the malt, I didn't notice it until I saw the empty box & did exactly what you suggested & it turned out OK but I think mine was only at 3 days. It turned out fine.

[Coopers DIY Beer Team]

1 hour ago, worry wort said:

My plan would be dissolve it prior and stir it in, but was wondering if anyone has found themselves trying this late-add malt?

We wouldn't recommend adding more malt extract at this late stage of the fermentation because you risk introducing oxygen and more airborne spoilage organisms. Although 250g of LDME would have increased the final ABV and residual sweetness slightly, leaving it out won't have changed the flavour profile that much as to make the beer undrinkable. Cheers, Frank.  

[Kegory]

12 minutes ago, Coopers DIY Beer Team said:

We wouldn't recommend adding more malt extract at this late stage of the fermentation because you risk introducing oxygen and more airborne spoilage organisms. Although 250g of LDME would have increased the final ABV and residual sweetness slightly, leaving it out won't have changed the flavour profile that much as to make the beer undrinkable. Cheers, Frank.  

Does adding more malt extract at this later stage carry a greater risk of introducing oxygen and airborne spoilage organisms than dry hopping at the same stage? Or is it more of a risk/benefit calculation?

[Triple B Brewing]

51 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Does adding more malt extract at this later stage carry a greater risk of introducing oxygen and airborne spoilage organisms than dry hopping at the same stage? Or is it more of a risk/benefit calculation?

Great question @Kegory, I’d to would be interested in your thoughts Frank ?@Coopers DIY Beer Team

[Coopers DIY Beer Team]

4 hours ago, Kegory said:

Does adding more malt extract at this later stage carry a greater risk of introducing oxygen and airborne spoilage organisms than dry hopping at the same stage? Or is it more of a risk/benefit calculation?

Yes, you will inevitably introduce oxygen when adding something like malt extract to the beer, giving the acetobacteria already present the necessary O2 to start turning ethanol into acetic acid ( vinegar). Bottling the beer two or three days later will give the acetobacter another kick along (more oxygen) and you've got vinegar bombs three weeks after that.

Even if this doesn't happen, you'll also put the yeast under stress that will very likely cause it to throw diacetyl instead of ethanol and you'll have butterscotch instead of beer. And no, a diacetyl rest won't clean it up. Maybe six months in the bottle might see an improvement, but by then everything else is starting to oxidize as well. Too much risk for very little or next to no gain.

Cheers, Frank. 

[Aussiekraut]

54 minutes ago, Coopers DIY Beer Team said:

Yes, you will inevitably introduce oxygen when adding something like malt extract to the beer, giving the acetobacteria already present the necessary O2 to start turning ethanol into acetic acid ( vinegar). Bottling the beer two or three days later will give the acetobacter another kick along (more oxygen) and you've got vinegar bombs three weeks after that.

Even if this doesn't happen, you'll also put the yeast under stress that will very likely cause it to throw diacetyl instead of ethanol and you'll have butterscotch instead of beer. And no, a diacetyl rest won't clean it up. Maybe six months in the bottle might see an improvement, but by then everything else is starting to oxidize as well. Too much risk for very little or next to no gain.

Cheers, Frank. 

How does this compare to dry hopping as has been asked or adding things like fruit or adding finings? 

 

[Triple B Brewing]

2 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

How does this compare to dry hopping as has been asked or adding things like fruit or adding finings? 

Thanks Frank @Coopers DIY Beer Team for your previous response Re adding additional malt extract late in the brew cycle and the “risk of introducing oxygen and more airborne spoilage organisms” 

There are a couple of us now (myself @Kegory @Aussiekraut) who would be interested in your thoughts on how this compares to dry hopping or adding things like fruit or adding finings? ” - Thanks in advance Frank

[Coopers DIY Beer Team]

18 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

thoughts on how this compares to dry hopping or adding things like fruit or adding finings? ”

You aren't adding more complex malt sugars when dry hopping or fining your beer - or when adding fruit for that matter, as most ripe fruit contains predominantly simple sugars: fructose and glucose. With regard to the risk of introducing oxygen and/or spoilage organisms when fining and dry hopping your beer, this poses minimal minimal risk if done correctly. Fruit should be added at or soon after the mid-point of the fermentation, when there is still plenty of active yeast in suspension and to ensure that the yeast has already done the hard work of fermenting the malt sugars first [maltose and (depending on the strain) maltotriose], before getting served up the "simple sugar hit" in the fruit. Adding fruit too early may result in a stuck ferment because the yeast had it too easy early on, which can discourage budding and a shortened log phase.  Cheers, Frank.

[Triple B Brewing]

3 hours ago, Coopers DIY Beer Team said:

You aren't adding more complex malt sugars when dry hopping or fining your beer - or when adding fruit for that matter, as most ripe fruit contains predominantly simple sugars: fructose and glucose. With regard to the risk of introducing oxygen and/or spoilage organisms when fining and dry hopping your beer, this poses minimal minimal risk if done correctly. Fruit should be added at or soon after the mid-point of the fermentation, when there is still plenty of active yeast in suspension and to ensure that the yeast has already done the hard work of fermenting the malt sugars first [maltose and (depending on the strain) maltotriose], before getting served up the "simple sugar hit" in the fruit. Adding fruit too early may result in a stuck ferment because the yeast had it too easy early on, which can discourage budding and a shortened log phase.  Cheers, Frank.

Brilliant thanks Frank @Coopers DIY Beer Team, I knew your response would be enlightening.
Thanks for getting back to us and sharing your knowledge - it’s really greatly appreciated

Cheers

Vince

[Kegory]

Cheers Frank @Coopers DIY Beer Team

[worry wort]

thanks for all the replies. After summing up i've decided to just let it ride, i've made brews in the past which tasted ordinary during ferment but after 3-4 months in the bottle ended up a lot better than expected. Appreciate everyones time.