Headache beer

[Claypot]

Hi All,

Have recently returned to brewing, this time with a keg set up and brew fridge with temp control and have not looked back definatly the way to go.

My first few beers were lower in alc vol ( 3.8 - 4.2% ) and were great beers.

My last 2 brews were about 5.2% and after a bit of a session a mate and I had the headache from hell.

I have been using coopers kits with supplied yeast. I have been setting the temp for ferment to 18 for ales and 13 for lager. I was under the impression it was best to pitch the yeast around 26 ( dry from packet ) to get it started then strait into the ferment fridge. My thoughts were that the temp control would pull the temp down in time to avoid off flavours ect.

I have now been reading about fusel alcohol and it's production. Is it possable that even though it is going into an 18 deg brew fridge that the temp is still staying high enough to produce the fusel alcohols?

The brews that caused the headaches are as follows:

 

Low carb corona

1 Kg coopers BE2

coopers mexican

kit yeast

brew craft dry enzyme

5 gm amarillo dry hopped

O.G 1.036

yeast pitched 26 deg

ferment temp 18 deg

F.G .998

 

Golden ale

1 Kg coopers BE2

450 gm liq light malt

17 gm amarillo different stages

4 wheet bix steeped

O.G 1.047

yeast pitched 30 deg

ferment 18 deg

F.G 1.010

 

I also did a coopers euro lager a while back that gave headaches but drunk that much other stuff was hard to be sure it was the beer.

coopers euro lager

900 gm liq light malt

O.G 1.036

F.G .006

yeast pitched 27 deg

ferment at 13 deg 3 weeks.

 

What would be the lowest temp I could pitch the yeasts?

As I'm thinking the high start temps are the problem and because my first brews were lower in alc vol it is only become a problem now that I have increased the alc vol?

 

Thanks in advance,

Clayton.

 

[Matty A]

I normally pitch my Ale yeasts around 20C and have genreally had full fermentation.

 

I am not sure on lagers as I have been fairly high with the pitching because it is very hard to get the temperatures that low.

[Guest]

An FG of .998 is too low. Was it this brew you got the headaches from?

 

I pitch my yeast for ales at 20-24C and straight into a fridge at 18C without any issues.

I pitch my lagers at 18-20C and straight into a fridge to 10-12C.

 

Curious though, where do you have your probe and how is it secured there?...

[Claypot]

Cheers for the replys Guy,s.

Billk yeah the beer we were mostly drinking was the .998, but as mentioned it was a low carb beer using a brewcraft dry enzyme.

The objective was to get the F.G as low as possible.

I can't stand low carb beers myself but I have mates and my wife who drink it. So I was just trying somthing different. It turned out quit good was a bit lemony and was only a couple more calories than coopers clear ( which is the only one I will drink )

My probe is just poked into the fridge I geuss it would be better to have it taped to the side of the F.V but I do often have two F.V's on the go.

I have used this method for all my beers and it seems that the ones that were below 4 % Alc vol could be drunk all day with no problem, it is the 4.5% - 5.2% that have been giving grief.

I have a T.C Pilsener on seconary now that I pitched the yeast at 21 deg and will be around 5% so will be good to see how that goes.

Thanks Clayton.

[Guest]

those pitching temps seem a bit high, maybe, if you didnt drop the temps quick enough you got alot more fusal alcahols in your beer? How long did you leave them at the high temps? [edit] re-read the post and this is also your theory.

 

What you can do is get the brew down to ferment temps while rehydrating your yeast in a seperate vessel, then run off say 200-300ml wort into a sanitised/steralised vessel (for me a pyrex jug) then you can add the wort slowly (100ml (every 10 min) to the rehydrated yeast to get it to the wort temps (ballpark) then pitch... just a thought

 

Yob

[Matty A]

Just looking at it and you might be onto something Bill. With FGs like that it would be incredibly dry. I know when I drink dry beers I get headaches.

[Guest]

If your probe is just placed in the fridge then you are not actually fermenting at your said temps as your controller is measuring the ambient temp in the fridge and not the temp of your beer. Hence, your pitching temps are not accurate and the chances are they are actually higher than you have stated without knowing it. This in turn maybe giving you a lot more Fusel alcohol headaches. However, you would also be getting these headaches after 3-4 beers.

 

For a more accurate measure you really need to strap the probe to the side of your FV. I have mine pressed in the side of Styrofoam and wrapped in bubble wrap. I then have this strapped to the side of the FV with a piece of cardboard. This shields the probe from the ambient temps.

 

Not saying this is the issue but this coupled with the very low FGs maybe the issue.

 

Here is a picture how I have got mine setup to give an idea.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/1003716.jpg

[PB2]

Claypot, do any of your "headache" beers display hot solvent like alcohol characters? If so, then fusel alcohols may be present at a higher than normal level...

 

However, going from your OP, what is more likely to be the cause of the headaches is excessive consumption of alcohol. A session on 5.2% ABV beer stands a good chance of leaving most people with a headache. [sideways]

 

 

[weggl]

I think the headache is from the bloody "Wheat Bix". Try Rice Bubbles![pinched]

Warren

[Hairy]

what is more likely to be the cause of the headaches is excessive consumption of alcohol

Ha ha.

 

I was going to say the same thing earlier but didn't want to offend.

 

PB2 has the aura of authority and it comes across as factual[rightful]

[weggl]

Hairy, he must be speaking from experience.[innocent]

Warren

 

[Claypot]

Thanks again for the further replies.

The only brew I can say for certain gave the headache was the low carb corona, as my mate reckoned he only had one of the golden ale.

So I could point the finger at the dry enzyme?

PB2, Its funny cause prior to knowing about fusel alcohol I would say no, but now I am conscious of it I did taste a bit of metho on the palate. I can generally give Becks or Carlsberg a good hiding with out a headache in the morning. The one we suffered was very out of character. The one that wakes you from your sleep at 5 am like a sledge hammer to the temple.

BillK prior to pitching the yeast I use a digital temp probe that reads with in 0.2 deg of the temp controlled fridge. I have read that fermentation creates heat but I'm not sure if the temp in the F.V would continue to rise once in the ferment fridge?

As for the wheat bix.... well I needed wheat and had nothing else!

Unfortunately I'm back to work for a few weeks and will have to do some further tests when I get back home, as I will need to clear the kegs to make way for my T.C Pilsener and euro lager.

The Pilsener yeast was pitched at 21 deg and fermented at 13 and will now cold condition for 4 weeks. It tastes sensational already and looks like it may become the house beer.

 

[Guest]

BillK prior to pitching the yeast I use a digital temp probe that reads with in 0.2 deg of the temp controlled fridge. I have read that fermentation creates heat but I'm not sure if the temp in the F.V would continue to rise once in the ferment fridge?

The temp in the FV will continue to rise until it reaches a "happy medium". I mean where it goes to an unpredictable level that it's happy to sit at.

 

I think you lost my point of the probe. If you have the probe in the fridge and not on your brew then you are taking a reading of the ambient temps in the fridge and not your wort. If your digital probe is also in the fridge then that too is only reading ambient temps and there won't be a great deal of difference between the 2 readings as they are taking the temp of the same area. Therefore, you really need to either strap it to the side of your ferementer as good as possible and shield it from ambient temp or place it in a medium which is the same density of your wort. (some people just sit it in a bottle of water sitting in the fridge and although not exact, it does give a closer reading.

 

Your controller is only adjusting the temps that are in your fridge and not that of your wort. There is a lag between the 2, i.e. when your fridge temp is at the correct temp your wort is lagging to get to that temp before the controller switches off.