Titan Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I thought about adding this as i have a question for all you guys that sour your beer. I currently have a stout in the fv only went in Saturday, i drew off 3l of wort and added 1 lacto tablet. I will leave this for 3 days then boil it and add back to fv. Anyone done this with success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Umm, Guinness for the past two hundred years ha ha ha. Ive read about quite a few people having success doing exactly what you have done there. Good luck with it Titan. Hope she turns out great for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Well its sour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Good stuff Titan. Looks horribly delicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Hey Titan tell me what strain of lacto u pitched? Is the stout wort Hopped? And is there yeast and lacto together? For my kettle spurs (well cube spurs) I pitch lacto before any hops are added because lacto does not like hops. You also need to keep the lacto away from oxygen or you can get some truly foul flavour. Easy in a cube. In a kettle or FV, people purge with co2 and then use gladwrap to keep oxygen out. Def taste this one before reintroducing back into ur main beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, joolbag said: Hey Titan tell me what strain of lacto u pitched? Is the stout wort Hopped? And is there yeast and lacto together? For my kettle spurs (well cube spurs) I pitch lacto before any hops are added because lacto does not like hops. You also need to keep the lacto away from oxygen or you can get some truly foul flavour. Easy in a cube. In a kettle or FV, people purge with co2 and then use gladwrap to keep oxygen out. Def taste this one before reintroducing back into ur main beer Yeah mate EKG was the main hop in this. 1 lacto tablet. Wort tasted good after the boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 No yeast in the sour wort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I recall reading that lacto plantarum (the one I use) really doesn't do well in presence of hops. I am curious to find out how this goes for you though. The sample looks to be fermenting. How does it smell? Like whey/yoghurt? And how does it taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Smelt off but i didnt taste. Boil went fine. Ran it over to get the solids to spill over. Cooled and pitched into fermenting wort. Looking forward to trying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 As Jools mentioned, if there was any decent amount of bitterness from added hops in the wort, then the alpha acids will kill the lacto. If that happened (probably if more than about 5IBU) then you have probably fermented with a wild yeast which may or may not taste good and may or may not add sourness. You will not get any gas, or krausen or any form of stuff on the top when the lacto is active. So that picture looked like wild yeast fermenting. Also good practice to pre-acidify the wort to 4.6ph before adding lacto, to prevent bacteria growing that can cause off flavours and possible toxic by products. One easy way to add that bit of sourness traditional for a genuine dry irish stout is to add a small quantity of lactic acid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 @headmaster I’ve always been interested in doing this souring for a dry Irish as the wife does love a good dark beer. Ive heard of a method where before the boil starts, you draw off a litre or two, then add a small amount of lactic acid. Let it sour over night then add to the fermenter. It didn’t sound right to me, as I’d thought about infection. With no boiling of the drawn off wort after souring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Not sure how it will work out. But have given it a try. The stuff on top of the wort was more like a mold rather than fermentation bubbles/krausen. If its a fail then learnt a hard lesson. taste test will be Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Hey The Captain , the method you describe is asking for some really odd flavours in the drawn off addition. Adding lactic acid will bring the pH down, but then it’s up to whatever lands in the sample to sour it. I’d say it would most likely be a yeast and bacteria combination that takes hold and it may be sour, it may be funky, it may well be Brettanomyces in there. But it won’t be controlled, predictable or repeatable. The method would work with one addition. Add a tiny bit of lactic acid and then pitch lactobacillus bacteria. Eliminate oxygen using glad wrap or better still, a small HDPE container and there would be minimal risk of infection when you add it into your final beer. Both the drawn off sample and the main fermentation will be inoculated with lactobacillus and yeast respectively, so other stuff won’t be given a chance to take hold. When you add the soured wort back into the main FV, the hops will inhibit the lacto so it won’t keep souring the main batch. The risk I see with this amended approach is that you are introducing live lactobacillus into your FV. When both me and headmaster kettle sour, we boil the lacto, effectively killing it before adding hops and into the FV with yeast. You could boil it after the souring is finished. I can’t say how much a lacto sour would work in a blended dry irish stout. Perhaps give it a crack and then for a second batch try adding a bit of 88% lactic acid instead of souring some drawn-off wort. You may not taste much of a difference with such a small soured %. Could save yourself a lot of work for the same result! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, joolbag said: Hey The Captain , the method you describe is asking for some really odd flavours in the drawn off addition. Adding lactic acid will bring the pH down, but then it’s up to whatever lands in the sample to sour it. I’d say it would most likely be a yeast and bacteria combination that takes hold and it may be sour, it may be funky, it may well be Brettanomyces in there. But it won’t be controlled, predictable or repeatable. The method would work with one addition. Add a tiny bit of lactic acid and then pitch lactobacillus bacteria. Eliminate oxygen using glad wrap or better still, a small HDPE container and there would be minimal risk of infection when you add it into your final beer. Both the drawn off sample and the main fermentation will be inoculated with lactobacillus and yeast respectively, so other stuff won’t be given a chance to take hold. When you add the soured wort back into the main FV, the hops will inhibit the lacto so it won’t keep souring the main batch. The risk I see with this amended approach is that you are introducing live lactobacillus into your FV. When both me and headmaster kettle sour, we boil the lacto, effectively killing it before adding hops and into the FV with yeast. You could boil it after the souring is finished. I can’t say how much a lacto sour would work in a blended dry irish stout. Perhaps give it a crack and then for a second batch try adding a bit of 88% lactic acid instead of souring some drawn-off wort. You may not taste much of a difference with such a small soured %. Could save yourself a lot of work for the same result! Your concerns are the reason for me not doing it. Considering I make a stout only a few times a year and the wife really enjoys them as they are. I do want to try a small souring though just to see how it goes in the glass. Maybe I’ll look for a 2l hdpe container and cubesour tm it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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