Marty_G Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Just wondering are they both suppose to be cloudy beers ... have a batch of each in the bottle for just over 9 weeks and they are not still not clear ... and any lees that may have been in the brew would have settled by now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graculus Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 The European Lager I made would have been clear by 9 weeks. Probably 2 weeks or before, but I didn't look. I didn't drink it until it was 12 weeks. What was the recipe you used & what temperature did you ferment at for how long etc. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will come along and offer an opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 I made a bit of a school boy error with Coopers European and 86 days Pilsener ... I know it brewed at too high a temp ... both did actually as I did them both at the same time ... i have been tasting them over the last 7 weeks and they are improving but both very malty taste and smell but the cloudiness is reducing .... am brewing another right now and it is going nicely temps right now are between 20 and 15 it will be interesting to see the difference ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 They should be fermented at around 10-12 degrees however fermentation temp won't make any difference to the haze. If they're clear at room temperature then go cloudy when chilled, it's chill haze. You can't do anything about it once it's bottled other than leave it in the fridge for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: They should be fermented at around 10-12 degrees however fermentation temp won't make any difference to the haze. If they're clear at room temperature then go cloudy when chilled, it's chill haze. You can't do anything about it once it's bottled other than leave it in the fridge for weeks. They are cloudy at room temp as well .... just on the 10-12 degrees ... my understanding is around 18 or less is is also no issue but best results are in the lower end of fermetation temp .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I will brew my European Lager either today or on Friday eve. Simple brew as yours i suppose. Kit + BE3 and maybe hop tea if ill get my hands on something. Its cold weather now and i think i can bring the temperature down to maybe 12-14 degrees. Without temp control or fridge thats really all i can do. Will let you know how its going and if i will have useful feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Tommy1525230200 said: I will brew my European Lager either today or on Friday eve. Simple brew as yours i suppose. Kit + BE3 and maybe hop tea if ill get my hands on something. Its cold weather now and i think i can bring the temperature down to maybe 12-14 degrees. Without temp control or fridge thats really all i can do. Will let you know how its going and if i will have useful feedback I have temp control but trying not to use it as only have 1 beer fridge I can use .... so naturally making the most of the winter weather .... temp range here is 20 -13 at the moment and have brews out in open hexagonal shed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I will brew in the laundry tub filled with water. Will use ice and frozen water bottles to control as much as i can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tommy1525230200 said: I will brew in the laundry tub filled with water. Will use ice and frozen water bottles to control as much as i can wow that is dedication .... I try to keep it as simple as possible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Thats all i can do. With a little kid running around i dont have room or funds for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: They are cloudy at room temp as well .... just on the 10-12 degrees ... my understanding is around 18 or less is is also no issue but best results are in the lower end of fermetation temp .... Probably not chill haze then. Some lager yeast can ferment pretty clean at higher temps, but the majority are better at 10-12 degrees, at least for the first 6 days or so anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Probably not chill haze then. Some lager yeast can ferment pretty clean at higher temps, but the majority are better at 10-12 degrees, at least for the first 6 days or so anyway. Thanks .... will try as it is this time as I want to see how it comes out just using the winter environment but will definitely use my submersible thermostat and fridge for the next one and set at 12 degrees .... learning from your mistakes is one of the pluses from this ... however I am trying to keep it as simple as possible ... one thing for sure though I now know that the yeast did not finish clean and that is why they are cloudy .... thanks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 When I say clean I mean flavor wise, not appearance wise. The temp makes no difference to whether the yeast drop out or not - to a degree, cold temps will force the yeast to drop faster. They should have dropped out in the bottles ages ago though, usually by the time the beer is carbonated they've pretty well all dropped out. It may not be yeast causing the issue, there are other reasons for haze than yeast or chill haze. I brew a lot of lagers, and always ferment low for the first 6 days then let them rise to 18 to finish off and clean up any diacetyl. After that they get chilled to 0 for two weeks, during which time I add a couple of clearing agents to drop as much yeast as possible out, and remove one of the causes of chill haze. When they're kegged they're nearly clear out of the fermenter, and another week or two they're pretty much like a commercial lager in terms of clarity, but the taste is much better. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZedT Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I use gelatine in powder form from Coles a couple of days bfore bottling , 1 teaspoon of powder to 1 cup of 70 C hot water, mix it well, cool to room temp and add, it usually takes care of all the haze, if present. Never fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZedT Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 On 6/7/2018 at 9:41 AM, Tommy1525230200 said: I will brew my European Lager either today or on Friday eve. Simple brew as yours i suppose. Kit + BE3 and maybe hop tea if ill get my hands on something. Its cold weather now and i think i can bring the temperature down to maybe 12-14 degrees. Without temp control or fridge thats really all i can do. Will let you know how its going and if i will have useful feedback you better build a box of some sorts( cardboard, plywood, plastic with a bit of insulation) or ideally an old broken down fridge, to fit your fermenter in and have 3 frozen 1.25 l bottles sitting in there next to it , they'll get your lager down to 12C in no time. and then just keep swapping frozen bottles every morning and evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Or just get a working fridge and temp controller. Easier than faffing around freezing bottles of water. I tried gelatine a few times but didn't like it much. I might not have used it entirely correctly but it made the yeast sediment fluffy and easier to dislodge. Tried isinglass which worked much better, and I use polyclar for chill haze. Still using the same lot of isinglass I bought three years ago or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Lol i actually just finished brewing mine. Pitched yeast at 28 degrees and am trying to bring the temp as low as i can in the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Tommy1525230200 said: Lol i actually just finished brewing mine. Pitched yeast at 28 degrees and am trying to bring the temp as low as i can in the beginning Sorry not 28 ...... it was 20 degrees and i brought the temp down to 16 by the end of night ...... not bubbling away yet but keep tep controlling over the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 17 hours ago, ZedT said: you better build a box of some sorts( cardboard, plywood, plastic with a bit of insulation) or ideally an old broken down fridge, to fit your fermenter in and have 3 frozen 1.25 l bottles sitting in there next to it , they'll get your lager down to 12C in no time. and then just keep swapping frozen bottles every morning and evening. I have been using a Cool Brewing Bag for the last couple of years... Brilliant! I've got a lager in there at the moment fermenting away happily at 11C. To keep it at this temp I swap a fresh blue ice brick or 2 each morning. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Mine is happy at 12 degrees so far .... brewed last night. Still cant spot much of a krausen going on. Hopefully it will pick up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 On 6/7/2018 at 8:33 AM, MartyG1525230263 said: Just wondering are they both suppose to be cloudy beers ... have a batch of each in the bottle for just over 9 weeks and they are not still not clear ... and any lees that may have been in the brew would have settled by now ... for what it is worth an update on these brews ... since I first enquired about them they have improved dramatically ... they have now been in the bottle for 5 months ... the maturation process has worked a treat ... the Lager has developed very well ... no longer cloudy and the ester tastes have dissipated .... the flavour of the Pils has not come on as well but is nearly there ... just confirms what we all know, these brews improve and develop over time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Yes, unfortunately there's no shortcuts to a great lager, you just have to give them the time they need. I'm glad I have kegs, they don't take as long in those, but still need at least 6-8 weeks of cold storage before they get really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Baron Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Yes, unfortunately there's no shortcuts to a great lager, you just have to give them the time they need. I'm glad I have kegs, they don't take as long in those, but still need at least 6-8 weeks of cold storage before they get really good. I’m almost 3 weeks into lagering my Bo Pils and it is taking every ounce of strength not to drink it although I might have a sample over the weekend for research purposes of course....... BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I would mate, I think it's quite useful and interesting to drink one glass per weekend to see how the beer changes/improves over time. I don't really do it as much anymore as I've done a number of them and I know when they hit their best now, but when I was first brewing them I would always have samples along the way to see how things were going. One I noticed the most change in was a pilsner I tapped pretty much as soon as it was kegged due to lack of any other beer. It was ok at first, but over the few weeks it lasted on tap it improved dramatically. I've also got one in the kegerator just sitting on serving pressure since last Wednesday, after about a week and a half lagering in the fermenter. So that one is up to 2 and a half weeks. By the time the pale ale in the other keg is emptied it will probably be up to about 4 or 5 weeks total lagering and I'll have to drink it because I won't have anything else. I may have a sample this weekend as well though, and then most likely leave it alone and compare after another 2-3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tömmy8888 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Just tasted the Euro lager with Sazz hops after 4 weeks in the bottle and its fantastic ..... good drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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