Going all grain. advice wanted

[Corksniffer]

Thanks Kels' I've never used Star but am keen on picking some up

 

Sodium percarbonate is the active ingredient in Napisan. I use it on its own these days and it's a great cleaner' date=' all it leaves behind is soda ash (sodium carbonate), which is easily rinsed off with a couple of bouts of hot tap water. Equipment is then sprayed with Starsan to sanitise. Simple regimen that has served me very well. [/quote']

[Otto Von Blotto]

Starsan is good stuff but the equipment needs to be clean first.

 

I went away from Napisan and its ilk because of all the surfactants and other detergents and shit they put in it. It took a lot more rinsing to properly remove it all. Pure sodium perc doesn't turn into a bubble bath when it's mixed up like Napisan etc. does.

[Corksniffer]

Well, I'm ready! Only thing left to do is buy the ingredients now. I ran across this thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=81478 that I'm really interested in doing because everyone seems to love it but don't know where to find the grains; can anyone recommend somewhere that would have this they'd mill and ship?

 

Only other alternative is to buy a kit from the Country Trading Store on Ebay http://stores.ebay.com.au/Country-Trading-Store/All-Grain-Recipe-Kits-/_i.html?_fsub=9517881018 but who knows what's in it and I really don't want to be discouraged on my first AG brew. Maybe someone has another recommendation? I'm in Darwin by the way

 

Cheers guys

[Morrie]

I buy 25 kg bags of grain from National Home Brew and CraftBrewer in Queensland. I have it freighted nearly 1000 KLMs. I mill my own grain so it stays as fresh as possible till brew day.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Any standard pale malt will work in it, locally Barrett Burston is a decent one. As for the other grains, they don't have to be Briess either if you can't get it. Munich, light crystal and Carapils type malts are made by plenty of maltsters, both Australian and overseas ones.

 

Definitely would recommend getting a decent grain mill and buying grains uncracked though. Buying in bulk is an advantage of course but the more important thing is that they keep a lot longer.

[Corksniffer]

Thanks fellas. Yea, I'll definitely look into a mill if this brew turns out good. It really will be the test to see if I can make a great beer. Otherwise I'm kinda done because with all the knowledge I've taken in over the past year there's little reason I shouldn't come out with a real kick-ass ale. Buuut also wouldn't be very suprised if it went the other way either.. Really hoping not!

[Mark D Pirate]

Good luck with it !

From memory you don't have great temp control do you ?

It takes a few brews to get your processes dialed in , my first few were erratic but still came out as beer

[Corksniffer]

Well, this is harder than it seems. I'm tempted to just buy one of the pre-milled kits from somewhere because I can't find the malts already milled in the qty's I kinda need straight away but the kits don't have an OG-FG or ingredients list so who knows what you're getting. Other problem is one of them says 'suits Grainfather' another says they can mill for BIAB so most tempted to go with the AIPA kit from National Home Brewer (I guess?) Well, technically I've already ordered one but the site never requested any payment and said "thanks for your order" .. might have to call them after the holidays

 

I do, however love a good German Pilsner. Maybe I can start with some pilsner malt, pils dry yeast and noble hop? Heeelpppp!! I've got the STC-1000 so no problem lagering. What would you guys recommend?

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's another reason I got my own grain mill. Obviously now I have an inventory of all the different grains I use, so I can make up a grain bill for most beer styles easily enough. I can also set the gap on the mill to best suit my own system rather than relying on some "standard" of what it should be. Often times BIAB milling is quite a bit finer than it would be milled for a traditional 3V set up but I actually found this to be worse. I have been using quite a coarse crush for the last year and a half or so, where the grains are just cracked open, and it has been much better for efficiency, i.e. getting a higher OG from the same weight of grain.

 

Anyway that's a bit off topic. The grain kits can't really have an OG-FG because unlike extract where you're putting a known quantity of sugar into the water, with all grain the OG depends on the overall efficiency of your system, which starts with the mash and how efficient that is at converting the starches and extracting the sugars, and follows through to how much volume is lost to the boil, and trub etc. The FG depends on the mash temperature and yeast strain used. They could probably provide a ballpark range though.

 

If I was in that situation, while saving some cash for a mill I'd probably be inclined to get the kits, or order grains for each recipe (milled) from a brew shop that will sell them that way. If you brew a few batches and are happy with the outcomes, then get a grain mill when you can and build an inventory of unmilled grains, and then you can simply mill only what you need each time you do a brew.

 

Temp control isn't just about lagering, it's very important for keeping the fermentation temperature stable and at the right temp for what you're trying to achieve.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Corksniffer]

Well said mate, I see why the mill's so important to AG brewing now. Alright, will grab a kit from somewhere first and go from there! Wishing it weren't Christmas now.. baa humbug. Gotta wait

 

Another thing I'm a little unclear about is sparge temp. Does the water have to be kept at a constant (whatever is called for within a recipe) temperature or allowed to drop slightly over the course? Because I'm using a large pot, I imagine there will be some cooling over the course of 60-90 mins and might find it difficult to try heat it back to optimum? Can't find much info on this

 

It's interesting you find milling for different systems less effective for BIAB when milled that way.

 

I've been watching quite a few brewing videos lately and am going to drop the STC-1000 temp down from 18.5 degrees to 16.5 for ales from here on for a trial. I find many if the ales I've really loved recently tend to be brewed at around 16. Maybe a cleaner flavour.

 

I also see they chill to 0 after fermentation. Guess so that the yeast become inactive and stuff 'drops out' which would probably be beneficial in the unfiltered home brew? The more organic material the more chance of off flavours developing I've been told. Is the cold crash a necessity on most brews?

[Mark D Pirate]

Another option is look for a local brew club , or at least other local brewers and borrow a mill short term until you can buy your own or let you come along to a brew day to see how it's done .

Another big plus to clubs is getting feedback on your beers along with advice on how to improve them .

 

Plenty of proven recipes out there , Beerbelly here in Radelaide would no doubt ship a pre milled recipe to you along with any extras you need

[Corksniffer]

Thanks Marko. You know, it's sad but I don't think there's a home brew club per-se in Darwin. . Even the local brew store guy doesn't seem to know much. Some advice I've gotten from him include but are not limited to: 'You don't want to make a beer over 5%, it turns into a wine from there' and 'we sell 250 to 1 of our brand kits compared to Coopers, they're superior in every way' the two I did were completely out of character and undrinkable. Tipped them out on the grass! Sells grain by 300g bags for around $8 for a standard crystal. Does not stock anything larger. Same with DME/LME. It's a funny town, people don't care about making quality beer. Quantity is where it's at for these piss pots and they don't seem to care if it's jail juice. Long as it's cheap.

 

One guy I picked some bottles up from looked at me like I had two heads when I mentioned I like to make better beer than you can buy locally. He brews the local xxxx clone (which is some cheap LME, some dex and probably a little POR and cheap yeast. The typical xxxx drinker part was enough for me to abort asap and get the hell outta there

 

Speaking of Adelaide, Drank some Fox hat and Pirate Life recently. Top stuff! They don't sell anything like that here so I've resorted to Boozebud online

[Mark D Pirate]

Don't you have 1 mile up brewing there ? Talk to them if they're still in business , i met the guys a few years back and they make a decent beer and had passion for brewing .

Sounds like you're visiting the wrong store

 

The craft beer scene is getting better every year , it will come to Darwin too

[Corksniffer]

I had no idea, thanks man!! Just sent them an email so really hoping they're keen for a chat

 

Legendary

[Mark D Pirate]

Don't be offended if they don't have a huge amount of time to chat , talking to the guys at my local craft breweries depends on how busy they are but i have learned a bit from them and i have to understand they're running a business so can't give away too many secrets ...i also buy plenty of the product

[Corksniffer]

Yes, nothing much suprises me about home brew these days :D

 

There are plenty of videos on YouTube so the info is there if you really look for it I guess. With all the knowledge here though I don't think there's much left unanswered

[Otto Von Blotto]

I think you're confusing sparging with mashing. Mashing is where the cracked grains are soaked in water at a specific temp for 60-90 minutes, sparging is running hot water over the grains after the initial wort from the mash is drained to rinse the sugars out more. I don't think in a home situation that it matters TOO much if the temp drops a degree or two over the 90 minutes. Mine usually move around a little due to cooling and warming up again but the beer always turns out well. If you are doing BIAB then sparging isn't required although it can still be done if desired.

 

I'm actually rather confused that milling for BIAB is often a fine crush. It just doesn't work. When you've got a lot of finer crushed grain and the flour that always results from it in a grain bag like that it's more difficult for the thing to drain properly than it is when you have coarsely crushed grains that are basically just cracked open with very little flour in it. The wort travels through and out of the grain much more easily.

 

Ferment temp is one part of producing a great beer, pitching the right amount of yeast is another one.

 

Chilling to 0 after fermentation isn't really aimed at putting the yeast to sleep even though it does have that effect. It's more aimed at dropping particulate matter out of the beer, be it yeast, or hop matter from dry hops, or whatever else. It's also used to facilitate the addition of finings if they are used. I wouldn't say a cold crash is a necessity but it is a handy little thing to do if you're able to.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

 

 

[Mark D Pirate]

Spot on Otto , I hadn't even noticed that

[Corksniffer]

Thanks Kels' appreciate your help mate

[Corksniffer]

Well I've just spoken to Martin @ National Home Brewer and he's been great. Got some really good tips and he was kind enough to make a special trip out to post today before going away tomorrow (even though he's already been today) so for that I thank him

 

He tells me that of about 80 local guys in the AG club, 20 or so BIAB with great results. Only one seems to be having an issue with bitterness because he can't chill the wort down quickly enough. He recommended the 'Mad Hopper' IPA for my tastes. Can't wait to start brewing!!

 

Also said it's a good idea to do a concentrated wort with half the water and use a second cool pot to mix it with to help cool it faster. Hopefully there's no issue with this (?) Because it does seem a good tip. I can cool the rest in ice water

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's one option. Another one would be to get a couple of 20 or 25 litre HDPE 'cubes' from the local camping shop or wherever and transfer the hot wort into one (after letting it sit 20 mins in the kettle for the trub to settle out), and let it cool down in there.

 

If you use the second option you *may* have to adjust hopping schedules as the wort staying hotter for longer will extract a bit more bitterness, but it's not too difficult. Been brewing like this for over 4 years with excellent results.

[Mark D Pirate]

Biggest downside to high gravity boils is that hop utilisation plummets !

Basically the wort can only hold so many dissolved compounds , sugars or hop oils .

This is the biggest impediment I face with my brewing in a stockpot

What size boil kettle will you be using ?

Otto and many others here are using 40 l urns and if I used identical recipe mine would be less bitter so I have to use more hops for same result

[Corksniffer]

You know, I had an inkling about something similar. Thanks for chiming in. If this first brew shows promise (or at least hope! Ha) I might consider buying a 40l urn, they look ideal for me. But as it stands now I'm just going to go into a cooking shop and buy a big pot (?) Biggest I have at home is a (roughly) 12l or so that's kinda manky looking. We have gas cooking, don't know how efficient this will be but I'm guessing much better than electric anyway. I'd hate to spend decent money on a big pot only to never use it again and have to fork out $300 for an urn too, but I have a feeling a pot will be fine for me(?) Bought a digital cooking thermometer I'll use for mash control.

 

I wonder how long 23l will take to cool down? I'd estimate an hour stirring in cold bath water. But, can always buy a chiller if I later feel the need

[Mark D Pirate]

i do 22-25 l batches in a 22 l stockpot on the stove , it's frankly a PITA to get it right

 

my post boil volume is 18 odd litres minus cold break / trub /hops crud that never makes it to FV

i top up with ice or clean cold water to full volume (depending on recipe ) .

after boil the entire pot gets submerged in an ice bath and allowed to cool as far as i can .

 

once wort is in Fv it goes in fridge to cool to pitching temp then dropped to ferment temp if different .

 

No-chill has advantages of course and will likely feature in my new years brewing

[Otto Von Blotto]

20 odd litres would take overnight at least to cool down (without assistance) if you boil the whole lot, that's why no-chillers put the wort in sealed cubes. The cube method is also more convenient because you can do a brew day even when the fermenter is full of something else. A 12 litre pot won't big be enough. Although much better than electric, I'd be surprised if a gas cooktop had enough heat to bring 30+ litres of wort to the boil. The camping burners are what are normally used for that kind of thing.

 

Personally I'd just buy an urn and be done with it or buy a 40/50 litre pot and gas burner rather than faffing around with smaller pots on the stove and what not. If you do everything properly and ferment it right, the beer will turn out really nice and you'll be ending up buying the big stuff anyway. I'd be inclined to go the urn though, because on the off chance that the beer isn't that great and you give up on it, you can still use the urn for its actual intended purpose - hot water for tea/coffee etc.