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talltwits

First Ever BIAB - Trials and Tribulations!

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Hey Mike' date='

Glad to hear it all went well mate!

 

You should be ok without shaking it, aeration is preferable but the yeast should still work fine. My extract batches back in the day probably weren't aerated anywhere near as well as they should have been and still fermented out ok.

 

A cube would be useful yeah, not just for being able to get a bit of aeration into it by transferring, but it's a safer option for storing wort in regards to potential infection due to there being no air (or very very little) inside the cube. I use cubes myself, although bigger as I brew either 21 or 25 litre batches. Usually get a 6 inch or more layer of foam on top of the wort after transfer due to the splashing.

 

An accurate thermometer is a must for AG brewing. I'm sure there'll be the muppets who will use the old "well they didn't have that 250 years ago..." nonsense, but we have them now and they are very useful for getting the mash where you want it to achieve the outcome you're looking for. I bought a Hanna thermistor thermometer not long after I began AG'ing, and it has served me well. I am looking at getting a laboratory glass thermometer now though under the recommendation of a bloke on AHB (who knows his stuff well), to use as a reference. Just have to find a good quality one.

 

90 minute mashes are standard in my brewery. In terms of conversion of starches to sugars, it probably isn't necessary, however it also means I don't have to rush around cleaning everything really quickly either. It makes the brew day a bit more relaxed. Nothing wrong with stirring the mash, or heating it if need be. Stirring it might result in more trub, but otherwise no issues. I have a false bottom on my urn for exactly this reason, saves having to insulate it when I can just leave the urn switched on and it will come on if it needs to, to keep the temp where I want it. I'm not obsessively anal about the mash temp staying exactly at X degrees, but at the same time I don't want it dropping too far either.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey[/quote']

 

Always soo quick to respond Kelsey... I love it :)

 

Can you tell me how you would transfer from the 20L pot to the cube? I think I will have to find a 10L cube to limit the air space.

Also need something to put the bag of grain on to sparge. My seiv was too small to hold it and it was very awkward.

See how I go with a few more of these smatt batch BIAB's but my end game is going to be a 40L Urn like yourself or maybe even a Robobrew/Grainfather. I think my missus would prefer me to be out of the kitchen ;)

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

Mike

 

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I just happen to be home during the middle of the day because I work broken shifts and am very close by. wink

 

Personally I'd fit a 3 piece ball valve to the pot and use a piece of silicone tubing on it to transfer into the cube, which is the same method I employ with my urn.

 

As for sparging, I don't really know because I don't bother doing it. You could try a 'dunk sparge' which is basically putting the sparge water in another pot and dunking the whole bag into it.

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I just happen to be home during the middle of the day because I work broken shifts and am very close by. wink

 

Personally I'd fit a 3 piece ball valve to the pot and use a piece of silicone tubing on it to transfer into the cube' date=' which is the same method I employ with my urn.

 

As for sparging, I don't really know because I don't bother doing it. You could try a 'dunk sparge' which is basically putting the sparge water in another pot and dunking the whole bag into it. [/quote']

 

Found my 10L cube

 

Your text to link here...

 

Even has a tap so I can use some tubing to empty into my FV.

 

Think I will just use a syphon method for now instead of drilling into my pot and installing a ball valve.

 

Already looking forward to my next brew. Think I might need to get another FV so I can have 2 brews on the go at once :)

 

 

 

 

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Probably better off tipping it into the FV - it'll splash more that way.

 

Yeah a siphon should work, just be sure to leave as much of the kettle trub behind as possible. It doesn't do the beer any favours. cool

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Probably better off tipping it into the FV - it'll splash more that way.

 

Yeah a siphon should work' date=' just be sure to leave as much of the kettle trub behind as possible. It doesn't do the beer any favours. [img']cool[/img]

 

After 36 hours I finally have a good Krausen on the top of the wort :)

I was a bit stressed as the temp got down to 15C for a while as I do not have a heat belt.

The US-05 is doing it's job and keep the temp up now.

 

Kelsey, I am planning my next brew. I hear you have a red ale recipe? Mind sharing?

I will need to convert it to a 10L batch.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

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After 36 hours I finally have a good Krausen on the top of the wort :)

I was a bit stressed as the temp got down to 15C for a while as I do not have a heat belt.

The US-05 is doing it's job and keep the temp up now.

 

Kelsey' date=' I am planning my next brew. I hear you have a red ale recipe? Mind sharing?

I will need to convert it to a 10L batch.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike[/quote']

 

Good stuff mate, yeah the 15C would have slowed it down for sure.

 

Anyway, I'm happy to share that recipe, there's actually a whole thread dedicated to it on here, but for simplicity's sake I'll post it here too.

 

Devil's Squaw Red Ale:

4kg Maris Otter Pale Malt

300g Caraaroma

200g Carapils

75g Black Patent

Mashed for 90 mins @ 66C

 

20.00 g Cascade - First Wort 80.0 min

9.00 g Magnum - Boil 60.0 min

20.00 g Centennial - Boil 20.0 min

30g Cascade dry-hopped

Brewbrite at 5-10mins

US-05 yeast fermented at 18C

 

These numbers are for a 25 litre batch, so just multiply all the ingredient amounts by 0.4 and you'll get the numbers for 10 litres. They also may differ depending on the AA% of the hops. The Cascade and Centennial additions stay the same, only Magnum changes. In my last one I did on Saturday I dropped the Magnum altogether because the Cascade AA% was higher, it was a 21 litre batch, and I couldn't be arsed mucking around with 4g of Magnum.

 

The stats (based on 75% brewhouse efficiency):

 

Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG

Est Final Gravity: 1.009 SG

Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.4 % (4.7% bottled)

Bitterness: 35.9 IBUs

Est Color: 27.6 EBC

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

 

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After 36 hours I finally have a good Krausen on the top of the wort :)

I was a bit stressed as the temp got down to 15C for a while as I do not have a heat belt.

The US-05 is doing it's job and keep the temp up now.

 

Kelsey' date=' I am planning my next brew. I hear you have a red ale recipe? Mind sharing?

I will need to convert it to a 10L batch.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike[/quote']

 

Good stuff mate, yeah the 15C would have slowed it down for sure.

 

Anyway, I'm happy to share that recipe, there's actually a whole thread dedicated to it on here, but for simplicity's sake I'll post it here too.

 

Devil's Squaw Red Ale:

4kg Maris Otter Pale Malt

300g Caraaroma

200g Carapils

75g Black Patent

Mashed for 90 mins @ 66C

 

20.00 g Cascade - First Wort 80.0 min

9.00 g Magnum - Boil 60.0 min

20.00 g Centennial - Boil 20.0 min

30g Cascade dry-hopped

Brewbrite at 5-10mins

US-05 yeast fermented at 18C

 

These numbers are for a 25 litre batch, so just multiply all the ingredient amounts by 0.4 and you'll get the numbers for 10 litres. They also may differ depending on the AA% of the hops. The Cascade and Centennial additions stay the same, only Magnum changes. In my last one I did on Saturday I dropped the Magnum altogether because the Cascade AA% was higher, it was a 21 litre batch, and I couldn't be arsed mucking around with 4g of Magnum.

 

The stats (based on 75% brewhouse efficiency):

 

Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG

Est Final Gravity: 1.009 SG

Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.4 % (4.7% bottled)

Bitterness: 35.9 IBUs

Est Color: 27.6 EBC

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

 

Champion Kelsey :)

 

Once question. When it says 20.00 g Cascade - First Wort 80.0 min does that mean you put the hops in as soon as you have taken the grain out and bringing the wort to the boil?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

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Yeah, that's correct mate. I normally boil for 75 minutes but that one was longer for some reason, perhaps because I had a little more pre-boil volume than expected and boiled it longer to get it down to the same post-boil volume.

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Hey guys,

 

Barely had time to keep up to date with the forum. However I've now finally reached days off and I bottle my brew today. Which also means I'll get a wee taste. I'll report back.

 

Glad to hear you succeeded Mike! Great news! I'm also looking for another recipe but don't know what yet. Maybe a wheat beer.

 

Happy brewing!

 

PS I'll be checking out your Instagram page!

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Hey guys,

 

So I bottled my brew today. And frankly I think I'm going to be disappointed.

 

Not too much to say but I think there's FAR too much hops in there. Any advice. For a 10 litre batch I had something like a total of 49 grans of hops. The exact recipe is at the start of this thread. I also done a first wort hop and used the same hop throughout the boil. Would this have made much of a difference?

 

I took an FG reading and its 1.008. If you can remember my OG was 1.037 but I think that was a mistake. So we'll assume 1.040 as an OG. That gives me a 4.2abv. Which I'm happy with (if that's accurate).

 

The beer itself looks cloudy but pale. I think what it should look like to be honest.

 

It's the main thing though...the taste...that's got me a little upset. I spent ages trying to figure out the BIABacus to convert a recipe to fit my 20 litre pot. I think I'll stick with Kelsey's method and just dovode by .40.

 

Kelsey - I'm assuming that goes for hops too?

 

I know if still got carbonation to go and things might settle down but it's just too strong (leaves a not so pleasant after taste) for it to be nice once secondary fermentation is complete.

 

Cheers guys.

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Don't despair. Even if this one's a failure, it's one that you know the exact cause of. My first all-grain beer was substantially under-hopped; I boiled 10g for 30 minutes and 20g for a very short flameout contribution. I had other problems, like diacetyl that didn't go away for a few weeks after bottling. I got a drinkable beer out but not without 5 weeks of thinking it was a write-off.

 

One thing that I would suggest is to make sure you check that your final numbers (especially ABV, IBUs and colour) match the style you want to brew. I prefer a build-up approach, taking inspiration from recipes but ultimately designing a new recipe in order to hit the style. But even if you are taking a recipe and just dividing the quantities, it's still good practice to plug the numbers in to a recipe builder or calculator to check that they're right. There are a lot of dodgy recipes out there.

 

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Hey TT and Mike, great to pop back in see you have both been kicking goals.

Don't worry too much about the perceived over-hoppiness at this stage, you may find out it tastes O.K in a couple of weeks. The amount of hops you had in your recipe is not out of the ordinary at all, my recent Pirate Life Clone had 50g in total for the 10lt batch and it is absolutely beautiful (although, we may have different tastes?).

 

Mike, sorry I didn't pop that sparging picture back up a few weeks ago, I will have another attempt here now. May help you with your problem (or not?). It is just a standard kitchen colander sitting on a separate smaller pot. Gently sparge then tip the running's back into your boiling pot.

 

podFoSt.jpg

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It was actually slightly more than 50g?!

 

 

BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3T RECIPE REPORT

BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.

(Please visit www.biabrewer.info for the latest version.)

Pirate Life Pale Ale Clone - Batch A1

 

Recipe Overview

 

Brewer: Pilch

Style: Pale Ale

Source Recipe Link:

ABV: 5.1% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

 

Original Gravity (OG): 1.053

IBU's (Tinseth): 47

Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.89

Colour: 23.5 EBC = 11.9 SRM

 

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 81.8 %

Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 73.7 %

 

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

 

Times and Temperatures

 

Mash: 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F

Boil: 60 min

Ferment: 21 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F

 

Volumes & Gravities

(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)

The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/

 

Total Water Needed (TWN): 16.68 L = 4.41 G

Volume into Boil (VIB): 15.15 L = 4 G @ 1.04

Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 11.1 L = 2.93 G @ 1.053

Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 10 L = 2.64 G @ 1.053

Volume into Packaging (VIP): 8.5 L = 2.25 G @ 1.013 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

 

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

 

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to www.biabrewer.info (needs link)

 

87% TF Golden Promise Pale Ale Malt UK (6 EBC = 3 SRM) 2112 grams = 4.66 pounds

6.5% JWM Caramalt (56 EBC = 28.4 SRM) 158 grams = 0.35 pounds

6.5% Crystal 120L (207 EBC = 105.1 SRM) 158 grams = 0.35 pounds

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Hop Bill

 

31.5 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 60 mins

9.2 IBU Cascade Pellets (6.8%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 15 mins

6.3 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams 0.434 ounces at 5 mins

0 IBU Cascade Pellets (6.8%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 0 mins (Dry Hopped)

0 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 0 mins (Dry Hopped)

 

 

 

 

Mash Steps

 

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F

Water Held Back from Mash: 2 L = 0.53 G

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 14.97 L = 3.95 G 66.8 C = 152.2 F

 

 

 

Water Used in a Sparge: 2 L = 0.53 G

 

 

 

 

 

Miscellaneous Ingredients

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chilling & Hop Management Methods

 

 

Whirlpool: 0 mins after boil end.

Chilling Method: Ice Batch (Employed 0 mins after boil end.)

 

Fermentation & Conditioning

 

Fermentation: BRY 97 for 21 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F

 

Secondary Used: N

Crash-Chilled: N

Filtered: N

Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.9

Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F

Condition for 14 days.

Consume within 6 months.

 

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer

 

 

 

BIAB Variations

 

Water Held Back from Mash: 2 L = 0.53 G

Water Used in a Sparge: 2 L = 0.53 G

 

 

 

 

 

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I think there's FAR too much hops in there.....

 

I spent ages trying to figure out the BIABacus to convert a recipe to fit my 20 litre pot.

 

49 grams of hops in 10 litres is not too much at all. Depends on the recipe though. Most of my IPAs have 200+ in 23 litres.

 

I'd suggest using Beersmith 2. I have not used BIABacus but BS2 has great scaling.

Craftbrewer sell keys for around $20 and there is a trial period.

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The Hop Bill

 

31.5 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 60 mins

9.2 IBU Cascade Pellets (6.8%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 15 mins

6.3 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams 0.434 ounces at 5 mins

0 IBU Cascade Pellets (6.8%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 0 mins (Dry Hopped)

0 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 0 mins (Dry Hopped)

 

 

Where did this hop bill come from?

Way too many IBUs gained from the boil. (in my opinion) Perhaps that is the issue.

I have a 75 IBU RIPA with only 26 IBU from the boil. The rest of the IBUs are from flameout additions. That gives flavour to go with the bitterness.

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The Hop Bill

 

31.5 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 60 mins

9.2 IBU Cascade Pellets (6.8%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 15 mins

6.3 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams 0.434 ounces at 5 mins

0 IBU Cascade Pellets (6.8%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 0 mins (Dry Hopped)

0 IBU Mosaic Pellets (11.5%AA) 12.3 grams = 0.434 ounces at 0 mins (Dry Hopped)

 

 

Where did this hop bill come from?

Way too many IBUs gained from the boil. (in my opinion) Perhaps that is the issue.

I have a 75 IBU RIPA with only 26 IBU from the boil. The rest of the IBUs are from flameout additions. That gives flavour to go with the bitterness.

 

I can't remember where the original full volume recipe came from that I scaled down on the BIABacus? I was originally using BIABacus because it is spreadsheet based which meant I could easily use it at work whereas I could not download BS2 onto my work computer. I am not using BIABacus now that I have upgraded my equipment to do larger batches now, there are plenty of good proven 19-23lt recipes about that can keep me busy for a while. I hope to eventually start mucking around with my own recipes but for now I'm happy to just concentrate on suring up my brewing process ;-)

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Hey guys. Thanks for that I don't feel as worried about it now. The initial taste of the beer is good. The smell is good. It just seems to leave a really strong after taste. This may not be from the hops. My limited experience isn't certain. I will give it three weeks in the bottle before I taste one. You never know...

 

Oh and this might seem like a silly question. On my starter kits I carbonated 500ml bottle with a tea spoon of brewing sugar. I take it I was meant to do that even with an AG BIAB? Because I did.....

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Pilch - for me I think it is better to work out your own recipes, thats what I did. I learnt a lot along the way too.

talltwits, yes you bottle prime.

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I only suggested multiplying the ingredients by 0.4 because 10 litres is 40% of 25 litres, which is the size of my original recipe. If you're making say, 12 litres, then you'd divide 12 by 25 and multiply everything by whatever that figure is. Or if you're scaling down from 21 or 23 litres or whatever then you'd have to divide your intended batch size by that.

 

All ingredients, i.e. malts and hops are multiplied by the scaling factor though yes.

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I only suggested multiplying the ingredients by 0.4 because 10 litres is 40% of 25 litres' date=' which is the size of my original recipe. If you're making say, 12 litres, then you'd divide 12 by 25 and multiply everything by whatever that figure is. Or if you're scaling down from 21 or 23 litres or whatever then you'd have to divide your intended batch size by that.

 

All ingredients, i.e. malts and hops are multiplied by the scaling factor though yes. [/quote']

 

Yeah that's what I thought. :)

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Sweet.

 

Also I wouldn't worry too much about the over-bitterness at this point. I've mentioned in other threads this, but I often find FV samples taste more bitter than the beer ends up being in the glass. I'm not sure why this is, but I do notice it.

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Brilliant. I am excited to see he end result. I think considering its my first ever AG it's mostly worked out pretty well. I'll be sure to report back!

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Hey TT and Mike' date=' great to pop back in see you have both been kicking goals.

Don't worry too much about the perceived over-hoppiness at this stage, you may find out it tastes O.K in a couple of weeks. The amount of hops you had in your recipe is not out of the ordinary at all, my recent Pirate Life Clone had 50g in total for the 10lt batch and it is absolutely beautiful (although, we may have different tastes?).

 

Mike, sorry I didn't pop that sparging picture back up a few weeks ago, I will have another attempt here now. May help you with your problem (or not?). It is just a standard kitchen colander sitting on a separate smaller pot. Gently sparge then tip the running's back into your boiling pot.

 

[img']http://i.imgur.com/podFoSt.jpg[/img]

 

Thanks Pilch. It is good to get an idea of how you sparge. I think I might do that for the next brew. Sparge into a smaller pot and then transfer seems like it might be the way to go.

 

I also went out and bought myself a 10L cube from BigW to transfer my wort for cooling. Then I will pitch the yeast the following day when the temp is down to 18C

 

Can you let me know what the grain bill is for your PL Clone? I really enjoy the PL Pale Ale so would be interested to brew this.

 

Do you cold crash your brews? I was thinking of leaving my Amarillo Pale Ale in the Fermenter for 14 days and the CCing for an extra 3 days before bottling. Also, should I dry hop after 7 days or leave it longer?

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

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Hey Pilch,

 

I re-read the recipe and found the grain bill:

 

87% TF Golden Promise Pale Ale Malt UK (6 EBC = 3 SRM) 2112 grams = 4.66 pounds

6.5% JWM Caramalt (56 EBC = 28.4 SRM) 158 grams = 0.35 pounds

6.5% Crystal 120L (207 EBC = 105.1 SRM) 158 grams = 0.35 pounds

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

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