Skyter Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi Guys, New to Home brewing (Missus got me a kit for Christmas 2014), now on batch number 5! So, I started out with the one kit as a pressie, made the Lager that came with and bought another kit 'cos they were half price in the sales. Now have 2 FV and after much drinking/ hassling my mates, a large and wonderful collection of home brew's in Coopers 375 and 750 ml bottles...... A couple of things here..... First 2 batch's were of Coopers Lager, bottled in Kit 740ml PET bottles. Head quickly disappears, learnt they taste better after 7 weeks bottled. Refilling the 375ml bottles- I have a great capper and twist tops seem to be sealed fine- Yet to crack one and find out! (A batch of Coopers Pale Ale- bottled 6/2/15) Refilling 750ml bottles- Confident that they are sealed fine (Coopers Pale Ale- bottled 2/3/15) Current brew in FV- Canadian Blonde, FG due Thursday. My question is.... When filling the bottles, at the bottom of the FV is the yeast sediment. This obviously makes the final few bottles... well, incredibly yeasty! I haven't tried one yet, but did mark them out to taste the difference... Should I have stirred the brew before bottling? What do people do with the bottom bit of the mix? Any help/ advice would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I normally tip it down the sink. Others harvest the yeast and re use it. I harvest yeast and re use it too, but I use a different method which I won't get into here. There is a thread about it though. Don't stir up the brew before bottling, you'll only end up with all the bottles being incredibly yeasty. The sediment will settle out in the bottle though, it may take longer with the ones that have more in them, but it will still get there. For me and a number of others on the forum who have dedicated fridges to ferment in, it becomes a bit easier to not get that crap in the bottles. After fermentation is complete I drop the temp down to about zero for a week, this causes more crap to drop out but also compacts the sediment so it's harder to dislodge at bottling time. I also transfer the beer to a secondary FV for bottling, so I only have to tip the main FV once to get the last bit of beer out and this hardly disturbs the sediment. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyter Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Cheers Kelsey, I hadn't stirred it up on any of the kit brews I'd made, it's just noticeably darker when filling the bottles. Think I'll sacrifice the last couple of litres for now, not sure the bottled yeast will taste any good ???? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Good use of the word crap there Kelsey Tom - yeah, sacrifice it. I normally tip my fermenter up to get the last bit and almost always get 30 or 31 long-necks out of it, but once the crap at the bottom starts getting near the tap I call it quits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 One option also could be to tilt the FV slightly back during fermentation so more of it settles towards the back, away from the tap. Before I started transferring, I never really noticed any difference in the flavour of bottles that had more crap in them, as long as you carefully pour the beer into the glass and leave the crap behind in the bottle they should be ok. Thanks KR, I've heard some brewers scoop it out and re-sell it in these convenient packages.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Ha, good one Kelsey. I recently saw a youtube video where someone had tilted their FV during fermentation; just one of those things, so simple & effective that without someone else telling you or showing you, you'd never think of it. I'll be doing that in future with my brews. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 That's it hey. I will admit I never tilted mine, it would have been too risky of it falling over with the cooling system I was using at the time, but I have seen it mentioned a number of times and I definitely think it's a good idea, especially without a brew fridge or whatever to chill it and compact it before bottling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man N Brew Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 G'day Skyter, Good to see another rookie brewer is willing to start at bottom of the ladder and brew some basic concentrate cans before going balls and all Into all grain! I've started brewing similar to you... Coopers kit and the Lager can which left me pleasantly surprised. (Even a couple of my mates gave it the thumbs up, they are the type of guys that'll drink semi warm Gold cans out of the bait esky on a fishing trip though!) I've also run the Aussie pale ale through and a can of bewitched amber ale has been brewed in the craft kit I purchased. Firstly I'll tell you that I also wondered what the go is with what seems to be a waste at the bottom after bottling.... I went to the point of tasting the sediment, after that I made sure not to get any in the bottles! Secondly, I agree with you on lack of head or it's disappearing act... Even the amber ale was fairly ordinary considering this styles thick and creamy foam reputation. I even went to the point of buying new glassware as I thought this could be killing my bubbles. I've been looking at possible causes.... PET bottles (next brew I'll bottle some in PET and some in Coopers 750ml glass and check for differences.) Priming sugar (have used drops but will use both drops and sugar once again comparing differences.) I have used bottled water so hopefully no issue there and the only other thing I can think of that may have to do with low carbonation is fermentation temp. I'm in central Qld on the coast and it was borderline to hot for fermentation in September so I've just knocked up a control box using an STC-1000 to keep things steady. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't think bottled water would kill the head on a beer if brewing with it, however, I do consider it to be just about the biggest waste of money on the planet. I don't know what the tap water is like up in those parts, but if it's fine to drink then it's fine to brew with. There are different ways of getting good head retention in beers. One is ingredients. Using a majority of malt (or even entirely malt), and very little simple sugar like dextrose should help. This comes into recipe formulation. The difference between using carb drops and sugar for priming is basically nothing when it comes to head retention. It's all in the makeup of the recipe itself. Make sure your glasses are free of contaminants like oil or residual detergent etc. This will kill the head pretty fast. You can also get the etched or sandblasted glasses which promote head retention by providing nuclei for bubbles to form. I have also made my own occasionally by taping a piece of sandpaper over the eraser end of a pencil and scratching the bottom of the glass. It worked a treat. Also make sure the glasses are dry. In my experience pouring a beer into a wet glass, while the initial head is fine, it disappears quickly, and for some reason even in etched/scratched glasses, the bubbles don't form to keep the head on top. Hope that helps somewhat! Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man N Brew Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Hey thanks Kelsey, Yeah water is drinkable that's for sure, I guess I just went down that road to remove another possible failure point in brewing as I'm new to this game. Interesting guff on the glassware too... I knew that glasses need to be nice and clean and if not cleaned properly and rinsed they can retain a film almost like a varnish.... I've been told dishwashers are bad for this due to high dry heat at the end of their wash cycle? Another thing I didn't know, (nothing new here!) was about nuclei in some glassware... Just a stab but does the etched glass reduce the surface tension allowing air to be trapped and then pushed out when the beer is poured or something similar? So, all that being said do you think I'll be wasting my time splitting my next batch using different priming sugars and bottles etc? Does that mean that others and myself may be expecting a little too much from basic concentrate cans regarding your thoughts on recipe makeup? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 In that case, may as well use the tap water, it'll save you a shitload in costs. Not sure about the dishwasher thing but I suppose if you were unsure about it you could always rinse them and wipe dry. People also say don't wipe glasses dry but I've never had any problems doing it. That's a good question, I don't think so though. It's more that the etching or scratching provides a roughness for bubbles of CO2 to form on. The don't tend to form on smooth surfaces. It's a bit like when bubbles start rising from the middle of the drink from bits of dust or whatever floating around in it, or when you get a dirty glass and you find a heap of bubbles all stuck to the side of the glass. I think it's a waste of time splitting priming sugar, but bottles, I'm not sure. I've only ever used glass, so I've no real experience to compare the two. Might as well give it a go and see what the results are. Regarding kits though, you can do heaps to them, you can use malt extract instead of sugar, you can add grains (Carapils is a good grain for head retention in kit/extract beers), you can add hops, try different yeasts etc. In other words, you can use the kit as a base and to get your bitterness and build a recipe off it. Check out some of the recipes of the month, there are some good ones in there pretty much all based off a kit. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man N Brew Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Good stuff Kelsey, My plan moving forward.... Brew and bottle a concentrate kit splitting between PET and glass and compare... Will let you know. Brew a Lightning Strike ROTM for the hop factor. Track down and brew a recipe with grains/hops... A red IPA or the like. And of course.... Be patient! Thanks again Kelsey for the chat and advice. Lachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Sounds like a solid plan mate! And no dramas, hope to hear about some successful brews down the track Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 In that case' date=' may as well use the tap water, it'll save you a shitload in costs. Not sure about the dishwasher thing but I suppose if you were unsure about it you could always rinse them and wipe dry. People also say don't wipe glasses dry but I've never had any problems doing it. That's a good question, I don't think so though. It's more that the etching or scratching provides a roughness for bubbles of CO2 to form on. The don't tend to form on smooth surfaces. It's a bit like when bubbles start rising from the middle of the drink from bits of dust or whatever floating around in it, or when you get a dirty glass and you find a heap of bubbles all stuck to the side of the glass. I think it's a waste of time splitting priming sugar, but bottles, I'm not sure. I've only ever used glass, so I've no real experience to compare the two. Might as well give it a go and see what the results are. Regarding kits though, you can do heaps to them, you can use malt extract instead of sugar, you can add grains (Carapils is a good grain for head retention in kit/extract beers[img']wink[/img]), you can add hops, try different yeasts etc. In other words, you can use the kit as a base and to get your bitterness and build a recipe off it. Check out some of the recipes of the month, there are some good ones in there pretty much all based off a kit. Cheers Kelsey The problem with dishwashers is the detergent, & the fact that it gets dried on, rather than properly rinsed out. Half a lifetime ago I did a waiting/bar tending course, & I remember the issue of glassware was covered. Typically in a pub or bar they do use a dishwasher to wash glassware, but never with detergent. The temperature of the water & the action of the machine dislodges any particles, cleans off any residue, & leaves the glasses in perfect condition for pouring beer or wine into; no residue, no particles, just clean sterile glasses (as it heats up to dry at high enough temps to kill pretty much all bugs). Technically you could wash your glasses in a dishwasher at home & get the same effect, but you'd need to make sure it was purged of all remaining detergents first. In some ways soaps & detergents are worse contaminants than the things they're supposed to be helping wash off! We're conditioned to believe that you need soap & plenty of suds to clean things, & this is utter rubbish; it's just that marketing & advertising has been pushing this line for generations, & many believe it without questioning the logic behind it. As for my method at home; I sometimes use my scourer; the same one I use to wash dishes with, but I give it a good rinse first, use warm water, then go over my glass with a paper towel inside & out, then rinse the glass in warm/hot (not boiling) water a few times, then leave upside down on the dish rack to air dry. 99% of the time this is adequate to ensure the glass will be right for my beer; oh & I have Headmaster glasses, which are the ones you'd usually find in many pubs. (Purchased from Target a while ago.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancid22 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 28-30long necks you will get depending on how many litres u do I usually leave the last litre or 2 u don't want that bottom crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 28-30long necks you will get depending on how many litres u do I usually leave the last litre or 2 u don't want that bottom crap I pretty much always do a 23 litre batch, & use 30 x 740-750ml bottles. That said, I allow for trub etc, & usually fill to about 23.5 litre mark on the FV. Anything left over after that is not worth bottling. Assuming that the bottles are all uniform & actually are 750ml, that means you're bottling 22.5 litres of your brew, & discarding the trub & leftovers which add up to less than .5 litres; allowing for your samples drawn to test the gravity. Using this formula .750x30 = 22.5, you could work back & figure how many bottles you'd need for a brew. e.g. for a 19 litre batch: 19/0.750 = 25, so you'd use 24 bottles for a 19 litre batch, again assuming you dispose of the trub & gravity samples; of course you could use a smaller bottle to get the little bit left over, but writing off .5 - 1 litre of each brew is a small price to pay to ensure you get consistent good quality through each bottle in your batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyter Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm getting 27 750ml bottles, but the bottom sediment is getting into the last few. Wouldn't tilting the FV affect the yeast distribution, or doesn't that matter? I still think getting 2 full cartons for a cost of $25 is great! Plus it's the whole "I made this brew" thing.... Enjoying the brewing so far ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Tilting the FV won't affect the yeast. It will still end up in suspension throughout the brew and do its thing. The reason for it is to settle the majority of it away from the tap so you don't get as much crap into the bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyter Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Will tilt on the next batch, worth a go I think! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werwer2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Can you filter the last bit while you are filling the remaining bottles. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Can you filter the last bit while you are filling the remaining bottles. Greg I suppose you could, but with the amount of pissing about trying to filter sludge that thick just to try to eke out one more bottle of beer, what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch88 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Can you filter the last bit while you are filling the remaining bottles. Greg I suppose you could' date=' but with the amount of pissing about trying to filter sludge that thick just oto try to eke out one more bottle of beer, what's the point? [/quote'] The man's thirsty :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werwer2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Not thirsty, on a budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 You'd probably waste more money buying a filter capable of doing it than any savings you'd make from getting any drinkable beer out of it. Besides, getting one extra bottle per batch ain't gonna save much... you're better off brewing it to 24 litres with a slightly lower ABV than trying to get any beer out of the yeast cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 29 clear Pet bottles out of a 23 litre batch by slightly leaning the carboy for the last bottle without attracting cake. After a few OG/FG tests during ferment just enough beer left over the cake to slurry it up and harvest a few hundred mls of yeast to go in a sanitized jar in the fridge to be used for next batch. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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