Rinsing Yeast, Starting Yeast, Brewing Beer...

[Cloudy]

I'm about to bottle an ale and figure I might as well have a go at rinsing the yeast for my next brew.

 

Please note that I did NOT come up with any of these ideas or methods, I take NO credit in the following process.

 

Any advice, information, criticisms, secrets (kidding) whatever you want to call it, is welcomed.

 

1. Firstly I have boiled 4 x 450ml jars and 1 x 1.4L glass bottle, they are full of the boiled water.

 

2. Once my brew is bottled, pour the water from my 1.4L bottle into the remaining sediment, swirl around and let rest for about half an hour.

 

3. Pour yeast/water off the sediment mixture back into bottle and let sit/settle, about half an hour.

 

4. Pour off the yeast/water mixture off the top of the sediment from the bottle to the jars (after emptying the water from the jars). Seal and store in fridge.

 

For the starter:

 

1. Boil 1L water, 1 cup (?) LDM and the Coopers packet yeast for 20min. Cool to 6 deg C (?).

 

2. Pour water off the top of the settled yeast (discard).

 

3. Add yeast to cooled LDM mixture. Seal and store for 24(?)hrs at room temp (?). (Does the vessel for the starter need an airlock?)

 

4. Mix ingredients for beer as per usual, pour in starter at the end just as you would your dry yeast, and stir into wort.

 

How much yeast do I want per brew? I've read 100-150ml.

 

I'm making a dark ale with chocolate, steeped malted grain, a mixture of LDM, maltodextrin, dextrose and (maybe) a can of dark malt.

[Guest]

I'm about to bottle an ale and figure I might as well have a go at rinsing the yeast for my next brew.

 

Please note that I did NOT come up with any of these ideas or methods, I take NO credit in the following process.

 

Any advice, information, criticisms, secrets (kidding) whatever you want to call it, is welcomed.

 

1. Firstly I have boiled 4 x 450ml jars and 1 x 1.4L glass bottle, they are full of the boiled water.

 

2. Once my brew is bottled, pour the water from my 1.4L bottle into the remaining sediment, swirl around and let rest for about half an hour.

 

3. Pour yeast/water off the sediment mixture back into bottle and let sit/settle, about half an hour.

 

4. Pour off the yeast/water mixture off the top of the sediment from the bottle to the jars (after emptying the water from the jars). Seal and store in fridge.

 

For the starter:

 

1. Boil 1L water, 1 cup (?) LDM and the Coopers packet yeast for 20min. Cool to 6 deg C (?).

 

2. Pour water off the top of the settled yeast (discard).

 

3. Add yeast to cooled LDM mixture. Seal and store for 24(?)hrs at room temp (?). (Does the vessel for the starter need an airlock?)

 

4. Mix ingredients for beer as per usual, pour in starter at the end just as you would your dry yeast, and stir into wort.

 

How much yeast do I want per brew? I've read 100-150ml.

 

I'm making a dark ale with chocolate, steeped malted grain, a mixture of LDM, maltodextrin, dextrose and (maybe) a can of dark malt.

 

Have a look through THIS TOPIC where I documented how I rinse my yeast..

 

have a listen to THIS PODCAST on the Brewing Network... every time I post this link I listen to it also, I must have listened to it about a dozen to 20 times I rekon [lol]

 

as to how much yeast to use, I use Mr Malty as it depends on the brew you are doing, gravity, how many liters etc..

(it has a re-pitching from slurry tab)

 

Anyway, dont make the mistake I did... do the research, test the theory and then apply the theory... I just jumped right on in and underpitched by a goodly amount [sick] wasnt the most pleasant brew..

 

Tip. When you have collected the yeast, you still need a few days up your sleeve to put it in the fridge to allow to settle out, this way you can use the 'compacted yeast' setting in Mr Maly and it is alot more accurate, if you use the 'thin slurry' it is always a bit of guesswork.

 

When you have worked out how much yeast you need you can then bring it out of the fridge, allow to warm up to within 3'c of your brew and pitch.

 

Good Luck.

 

Yob

[BrewingBenny]

My imported $10 stir plate accessories arrived and my 2ltr Erlenmeyer flask also. Building the courage to rinse and make a starter, I'm a bit weary of doing it as I don't want to stuff it and I learn better by being there watching someone do it. Your instruction is awesome Yob, based on that alone my next beer is inviting me to attempt the process (GULP) here goes nothing LOL[sick]

[Guest]

When I first got my stirplate, I just made a starter with no intent of pitching it, just to observe the process, left it 2 days on the plate then into the fridge to drop the yeast.. I was quite amazed by the amount of yeast growth... after doing it once I then applied what I had learned and then 'freshened up' a reasonably old smack pack... he he.. and just pitched that on the weekend [rightful]

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey Yob,

 

What do you rekon the shelf life of rinsed yeast is. In the fridge at 2-4C. If it's after a few weeks should it be a starter or could i pitch the compacted yeast in? Provided I have the correct # of cells.

[Raider]

I made my first attempt at yeast washing on the weekend. Did exactly the same steps as you and it seemed to work well.

 

I noticed that there wasn't much trub after letting it settle for 30mins. It was a bit hard to see any seperation through the plastic FV and also didn't notice much in the large glass jar but after having the small jars in the fridge overnight there was a nice compact, white layer of yeast on the bottom.

 

Guess the real test will come when I go to make a starter with one of the jars this weekend.

[Guest]

I don't understand why you are looking for seperation in your FV?

 

Assuming the jars were left in the fridge over night after your process. Otherwise the yeast won't be on the bottom, it will be the middle layer.

 

Ummm, You can't make a starter with a jar. You need yeast otherwise the glass will just lay dormant [lol]

[Guest]

Hey Yob,

 

What do you rekon the shelf life of rinsed yeast is. In the fridge at 2-4C. If it's after a few weeks should it be a starter or could i pitch the compacted yeast in? Provided I have the correct # of cells.

 

two weeks of being stored is fine (in my experience).. I never pitch the compacted yeast... When I bring it out of the fridge and let it warm up, I will tip off most of the water in the jar leaving about 300ml of liquid...

 

Now here's my trick, I ALWAYS collect about 100ml of yeast, so if I work out I need 70ml compact yeast I know I need 70% of that volume in the jar.. for me, it just makes life easy.

 

Mr Malty also has a 'calculate viability from date' tab.. this is where I went wrong for a bit, I was using the date I collected the yeast not the date that it was last active, so for example, at FG the yeast start to drop out but I put my FV in the Cold Conditioning fridge.. The date I should be using for the viability is the date that FG was reached.

 

Most pitches will be between 60ml and 100ml depending on the viability, if it start to creep over the 100ml mark you might think about re-vitalising them in a starter.

 

The reason for this is that when yeast become inactive they fall back on their carbohydrate reserves which affects their viability.

 

Hope that clears it up a bit.

 

Yob

[Guest]

I made my first attempt at yeast washing on the weekend. Did exactly the same steps as you and it seemed to work well.

 

I noticed that there wasn't much trub after letting it settle for 30mins. It was a bit hard to see any seperation through the plastic FV and also didn't notice much in the large glass jar but after having the small jars in the fridge overnight there was a nice compact, white layer of yeast on the bottom.

 

Guess the real test will come when I go to make a starter with one of the jars this weekend.

 

Try this method.

 

1: shake fermenter to suspend all the yeast

2: Pour off into a jar (right away) at most 1/3 of the jar volume from the FV

3: Top up jar to almost full with cooled boiled water

4: Wait 20 mins

5: Decant into another sanitised jar the top 2/3 of the jar

 

Repeat as required.

 

One of the problems many people get is that they make the solution too damn thick and you cannot see the separation.

 

The taller and more narrow the Jars the better, I find the big V8 jars the best.

 

Have a look at the linked topic's above and hopefully that will clear things up a bit for you.

 

Yob

 

edit: as an experiment, take 3 jars, 1 half full, 2nd 1/3 full and the third one 1/4 full, fill them with water and watch then for 20 mins, you will see that the thinner the slurry, the better the separation.. and also, there is no reason why you cant rinse a few times, remember that the longer you leave to to separate the more of the yeast will settle out.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Starters it is then!

 

Thanks, Yob!

 

[Raider]

I don't understand why you are looking for seperation in your FV?

 

Assuming the jars were left in the fridge over night after your process. Otherwise the yeast won't be on the bottom, it will be the middle layer.

 

Ummm, You can't make a starter with a jar. You need yeast otherwise the glass will just lay dormant [lol]

 

 

I was under the impression you wanted a layer of crap on the bottom and the yeast in suspension before you pur out the top layer from your fermenter into the large jar, but I must be mistaken.

 

Was thinking there may not be much trub in there because I strain out the hops from the boil and use a chux cloth for dry hopping. There was just a small amount of black stuff, guessing dead yeast at the bottom as I was pouring off into the large jar.

[Guest]

Mate... The topic is 'rinsing' yeast... The problem with letting it settle in a 'condensed' environment (the fv) is you may only select a portion of the yeast that is less flocculant... Personally, i think thats what rinsing is all about.. I like to separate the hops, protien, trub, shite, for me that is where the fun is... Its about selecting the 'right' yeast and discarding the shite..

 

If left things to settle im the fermenter, i would not be confident of selecting the right yeast.. Amd by default i may not have the correct pitch to tu next brew.

 

Mate.. I encourage you to look, listen and read your way through the links posted earlier in this topic.. It becomes very clear, very quickly if you take the time to learn.. Amd believe me.. Your beer will be before for it..

 

Yob

[Raider]

Thanks Yob,

 

I have listened to that podcast a few times now and have Mr Malty in my favourites. Also read through 1,000 posts or so of the yeast rinsing sticky over at "homebrewtalk" and that is the method I used this time and which was also outlined in the original post of this thread.

 

I will give your method a go next time and look forward to seeing the results.

 

It is more just for a bit of fun to see how it goes and also save an extra 5 bucks a brew on yeast [biggrin]

[Cloudy]

Well I did it. It's been over 24hrs and the yeast is settling nicely. The first thing I can say is that it's really easy. This was supposed to be more like a trial, an experience. Mainly because I've rinsed Coopers yeast (all due respect) and I figured, if you were going to rinse yeast, make it a high quality/specific one, not a generic one. But that's not what rinsing is about, it's about harvesting experienced yeast and getting them to do what you usually get INexperienced yeast to do. Also, I figure, that if you're going to pitch Coopers yeast, then rinsed Coopers yeast must be better. Anyway like I said, this was the easy part - if rinsing went bad it would go down the sink, no harm no foul. But pitching... now I'm nervous! [crying] If pitching goes wrong the whole wort is lost.

 

Method: I added water from the 1.4L bottle (it's actually 1.48, the big V8 bottle as Yob suggested) into the FV, after the brew was bottled. After half an hour I carefully poured the mixture back into the V8 bottle stopping before the dark matter started to run into the bottle (this is the sediment, dead yeast etc). Then waited another half hour and decanted into the smaller jars (there was no dark sediment at all at this point). They are now in the fridge and as I said above are settling well (I'll post a photo).

 

Yob as usual your knowledge and input is invaluable. I'm listening to that link, it's great so far and I'm only 16 mins in. I recommend it. The Mr Malty link has me thrown. I'll have to revisit and research before I can fully understand how to go about pitching properly. One Q though - what's your rule for making a starter? Why do you/don't you make one?

 

Edit: Ok, one more, why use a stirplate?

[Cloudy]

 

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[Guest]

Method: I added water from the 1.4L bottle (it's actually 1.48, the big V8 bottle as Yob suggested) into the FV, after the brew was bottled. After half an hour I carefully poured the mixture back into the V8 bottle stopping before the dark matter started to run into the bottle (this is the sediment, dead yeast etc). Then waited another half hour and decanted into the smaller jars (there was no dark sediment at all at this point). They are now in the fridge and as I said above are settling well (I'll post a photo).

 

Yob as usual your knowledge and input is invaluable. I'm listening to that link, it's great so far and I'm only 16 mins in. I recommend it. The Mr Malty link has me thrown. I'll have to revisit and research before I can fully understand how to go about pitching properly. One Q though - what's your rule for making a starter? Why do you/don't you make one?

 

Edit: Ok, one more, why use a stirplate?

 

 

Last Question first.. you use a stirplate to 'grow' an active colony of yeast, you can start with a small amount and end up with as much as you want, depending on a few factors of course.. You can also use a stirplate to 're-vitalise' a tired crop of yeast, to explain that, at the end of ferment when the yeast floculate they build up their glycogen and thehlose reserves which they use to sustain them through the 'winter' aka the fridge.. if you keep them in the fridge too long a fair whack of them die off and just get too weak so 're-rinsing them' and putting the healthier of them into a starter gives them back their health and breeds a few generations of new ones. This is the "viability date" in Mr Matly, it will tell you 'roughly' what percentage of yeast is still 'viable (Ballpark)...

 

as to your method, mate, you can use a (sanitised) spoon and just scoop it out into a jar if you want, after all the process is rinsing yeast from the trub.

 

I will generally not put a whole V8 jar of water in the FV.. maybe 500ml.. just enough to slosh around and get the yeast un compacted, I then pour the slurry into the V8 jar (1/4 of the bottle) and then top up to near the neck and swirl around, after 20 mins I then pour off the top layer into another jar and top the V8 jar back up and repeat.

 

Just keep working on it mate, it will become easier the more you do it and you will refine your methods.

 

The Mr Malty sliders, if you are putting it in the fridge to settle out you want to move the slider to "Thick Yeast" but you will also want to have graduated marks on your jars, 50ml, 100ml, 150ml etc Have a play with the viability date and see what happens with how much slurry you need when you change the date of "viability" back a few months.. also, replace those lids with gladwrap and rubber band, you dont want a complete seal.

 

Yob

[Cloudy]

Wow just when you think you have it all sorted, something else comes up and you're like "oh.. now I get it [biggrin] " then something else and it's like "ohh.. NOW I get it [biggrin] "

 

Do you mean you "do" want a complete seal? Coz that's what will happen with glad wrap and a rubber band [cool]

 

So anyway, I've only rinsed once - even then it was more like I just added water to the sediment. In my pic you can see settled yeast at the bottom, cloudy yeast in between and liquid above. I might pour off the liquid and rinse again? It's the cloudy portion I want right?

[Guest]

There can still be co2 in solution, if you have a tight fitting lid the jar 'may' explode in the fridge, a gladwrap lid, much like on a fermenter will allow gas to escape while keeping bacteria out.

 

In a few days when the liquid is all clear what i will often do is then tip off most of the liquid and combine the compact yeast into a single jar, at this point you could if you wanted to, allow to come back to room temp, top up with more cooled boiled water, swirl well to break up all the clumps and see how much settles in 10 minutes, if you only get a fine dusting on the bottom, good to go, if you find that a load of it settles out quickly you will know that you have collected a jar of crud and you can then continue to rinse it further. I find it a good idea to keep a spare jar of slurry in the fridge until i know i have collected enough viable yeast

 

Essentially, you go thought the motions of rinsing again just to check. I no longer do this as im comfortable with my methods, as you will be in time.

 

Yob

[Cloudy]

Thanks Yob. How about the starter? When do you use one and why?

[Guest]

Thanks Yob. How about the starter? When do you use one and why?

 

Post 16, paragraph one, you dont have to have a stirplate (it does help though) but same reasons.

 

 

[Guest]

Just thought Id add this.

 

When you 'ferment' a beer the yeast are restricted as to how much growth they will go through by the amount of o2 that is in solution. (and is also a good idea as to why you aerate after 12 hours of pitching) Yeast use o2 to produce strols which they use during the budding stage, without o2 (aerobic and anaerobic fermentation) they switch to full fermenting then die off and are limited to about 4 budding cycles.. (their cell walls are too scarred to continue after about this number) a stir plate (or just shaking the bottle, jar, whatever) re-introduces o2 and they can continue to replicate, this is how you can go from a small amount of yeast and build it up to a large healthy pitching amount.

 

If you are interested in yeast... and I suggest you should be as it's one of the most important factors of brewing... you can have the most amazing recipe but if you screw up the ferment you get crap beer... and if you have a crap recipe but really look after the yeast you can still end up with a drinkable beer.. do yourself a favour and get the Yeast book by Jamil Z (the Brewing Network) and Chris White (Whitelabs)

 

Note: You never stop learning about yeast. (or in general) [lol]

 

Yob

 

 

[Canadian Eh!L]

Just thought Id add this.

 

When you 'ferment' a beer the yeast are restricted as to how much growth they will go through by the amount of o2 that is in solution. (and is also a good idea as to why you aerate after 12 hours of pitching)

 

Yob,

 

Maybe I'm not getting you right. Are You saying you aerate your brews after pitching?[unsure] This sounds like crazy talk!

[Guest]

what nobody else want to field this? [lol]

 

Thats correct mate, with big beers, say over 1055 (generally not for a mild 1040) and certainly over 1060 its a good idea to aerate after pitching.. you have to keep in mind that Yeast are still in aerobic fermentation and reproducing, and what they do is essentially 'give' a part of themselves to the daughter cell, if you are keeping them in aerobic fermentation you will have a greater population of healthy viable Yeast, if you dont give them enough o2, especially with big beers, you may have trouble with attenuation and 'clean up' and might not get as clean a beer as you would otherwise.

 

You have to keep in mind that for the first 24 hours (maybe longer) they are not 'actively' fermenting (though they do a bit) but are in reproduction mode, any o2 at this point will be eaten up by the yeast.

 

Im a good Yeast daddy!! [lol] [rightful] [ninja]

 

Yob

[ash]

Hi Brewmasters,as part of my on going brew education i'am going to do a reactivate coopers yeast as per Pauls instructions.Now if i stuff it up & the brew i drop it in doesn't kick can i add a packet of yeast after a day or so to get things going or is that brew a shot duck & has to be tipped out.

[Hairy]

If for some reason it doesn't start then you can pitch extra yeast.

 

It should start though, if you are making a starter than there will be healthy active yeast there. Your problem may be finishing if you don't pitch enough yeast (along with the other issues of under pitching).

 

If you find it conks out then you could pitch more yeast.