Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 I bottled my Fuku FWK today and the trub was much more fluid than in any of my previous brews. Usually the trub is fairly compact and stable and I've been able to estimate my yield to plus/minus one bottle. Not this time. When I tilted the fermenter towards the end of the bottling process the trub flowed towards the tap much sooner and mixed with the remaining beer making it quite cloudy. My yield was 2-2.5 litres less than I expected. Is that related to the yeast (Diamond) or is it more a feature of FWK/all grain brewing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 (edited) I would say the yeast as an example Nottingham is a thick solid trub then you have other yeasts that are very loose on the bottom eg 05 Edited August 13, 2023 by Back Brewing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmar92 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 (edited) I guess that it depends on a few things. As @Back Brewing said the yeast characteristics make a major difference, if the yeast is a high flocculator you would expect that the trub will be fairly compacted. Other things to consider are the time that the ferment took, the longer then you would expect more flocculation. Cold crashing will also help to produce a compact trub. According to Lallemand they classify Diamond lager yeast as a high flocculator. How long was the ferment and at what temperatures, did you cold crash it? Edited August 13, 2023 by kmar92 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 30 minutes ago, Back Brewing said: I would say the yeast as an example Nottingham is a thick solid trub then you have other yeasts that are very loose on the bottom eg 05 Thanks, that's very interesting. It kinda makes sense that way. The FWK is designed for kegging. If it was cold crashed first, or even cold crashed in the keg it would probably settle more. I didn't do that because I wanted to carbonate it first then lager it in the bottle. More data for my notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, kmar92 said: I guess that it depends on a few things. As @Back Brewing said the yeast characteristics make a major difference, if the yeast is a high flocculator you would expect that the trub will be fairly compacted. Other things to consider are the time that the ferment took, the longer then you would expect more flocculation. Cold crashing will also help to produce a compact trub. According to Lallemand they classify Diamond lager yeast as a high flocculator. How long was the ferment and at what temperatures, did you cold crash it? Ok, cool. I fermented it at around 14C for 14 days then raised it to 22C over 4 days. I backed it off to 18C for another day and then let it cool down to about 13C overnight. I didn't cold crash it because I'm bottling and I didn't want to have to use another yeast to carbonate it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmar92 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Kegory said: Ok, cool. I fermented it at around 14C for 14 days then raised it to 22C over 4 days. I backed it off to 18C for another day and then let it cool down to about 13C overnight. I didn't cold crash it because I'm bottling and I didn't want to have to use another yeast to carbonate it. Cold crashing will not stop beer fermenting in a bottle, after cold crashing there will still be ample yeast left to carbonate the beer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, kmar92 said: Cold crashing will not stop beer fermenting in a bottle, after cold crashing there will still be ample yeast left to carbonate the beer. Hmm, ok. I read something somewhere saying that cold crashing might kill of the yeast and you might need to use a champagne yeast if you are bottle conditioning. Of course I don't recall where I read that or the specific yeast or recipe it was talking about. Not that it matters at the moment as I don't have the capacity to cold crash yet. But that's something to keep in mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Kegory said: Ok, cool. I fermented it at around 14C for 14 days then raised it to 22C over 4 days. I backed it off to 18C for another day and then let it cool down to about 13C overnight. I didn't cold crash it because I'm bottling and I didn't want to have to use another yeast to carbonate it. Mate just keg it & don't worry about the technicalities; all of those FWK beers are awesome. Home brewing is about enjoying your efforts & improving where you can, never mind all of the blah blah about what you could've have done, should have done & so on. Each brew is a lesson, which means if you liked it, brew it again. There is nothing wrong with experimenting & searching for the perfect brew, but it is not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said: Mate just keg it & don't worry about the technicalities; all of those FWK beers are awesome. Home brewing is about enjoying your efforts & improving where you can, never mind all of the blah blah about what you could've have done, should have done & so on. Each brew is a lesson, which means if you liked it, brew it again. There is nothing wrong with experimenting & searching for the perfect brew, but it is not rocket science. I don't have a keg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmar92 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said: Mate just keg it & don't worry about the technicalities; all of those FWK beers are awesome. I don't think he kegs, he bottles Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, kmar92 said: I don't think he kegs, he bottles Phil. Yeah, I know that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, Kegory said: I don't have a keg. I know that, but just stick to the basics & learn from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Classic Brewing Co said: I know that, but just stick to the basics & learn from that. I am asking questions about my observations for exactly that reason: so I can learn. You can't get much more basic than sprinkling yeast on top of a FWK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said: Yeah, I know that. As I said start from the basics & move on to the next level. Once you have a few brews under your belt you will know what we are talking about, no point getting to hi tech at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Brewing Co Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Kegory said: I am asking questions about my observations for exactly that reason: so I can learn. You can't get much more basic than sprinkling yeast on top of a FWK. That's how we all started bloke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said: That's how we all started bloke. So what's the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kegory said: I bottled my Fuku FWK today and the trub was much more fluid than in any of my previous brews. Usually the trub is fairly compact and stable and I've been able to estimate my yield to plus/minus one bottle. Not this time. When I tilted the fermenter towards the end of the bottling process the trub flowed towards the tap much sooner and mixed with the remaining beer making it quite cloudy. My yield was 2-2.5 litres less than I expected. Is that related to the yeast (Diamond) or is it more a feature of FWK/all grain brewing? Don't forget the fwk is just wort so it's related to the yeast that is used Edited August 13, 2023 by Back Brewing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Kegory said: Ok, cool. I fermented it at around 14C for 14 days then raised it to 22C over 4 days. I backed it off to 18C for another day and then let it cool down to about 13C overnight. I didn't cold crash it because I'm bottling and I didn't want to have to use another yeast to carbonate it. Just think when you go and buy Coopers stout and pale ale etc. You can have them in the fridge at 2 or 3 degrees and still harvest the yeast 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Back Brewing said: Just think when you go and buy Coopers stout and pale ale etc. You can have them in the fridge at 2 or 3 degrees and still harvest the yeast I thought people bring them down to around 0.5C to cold crash, or even zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Kegory said: I thought people bring them down to around 0.5C to cold crash, or even zero. Yep and when bottled the yeast will still ferment the sugars 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Kegory said: Thanks, that's very interesting. It kinda makes sense that way. The FWK is designed for kegging. If it was cold crashed first, or even cold crashed in the keg it would probably settle more. I didn't do that because I wanted to carbonate it first then lager it in the bottle. More data for my notes No the fwk was designed for brewers who couldn't be bothered or didn't have time to AG also for beginners to brew a quality beer first up. I bet there are plenty of brewers bottling fwk kits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, Back Brewing said: Yep and when bottled the yeast will still ferment the sugars Good to know, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Back Brewing said: No the fwk was designed for brewers who couldn't be bothered or didn't have time to AG also for beginners to brew a quality beer first up. I bet there are plenty of brewers bottling fwk kits On this point I must disagree. The Fuku is from Kegland and they specifically say "All of these recipes have been designed around pressure rated FermZillas and a 19L Home Brew Keg. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Brewing Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Kegory said: On this point I must disagree. The Fuku is from Kegland and they specifically say "All of these recipes have been designed around pressure rated FermZillas and a 19L Home Brew Keg. " Yes but they are not saying you can't ferment normally and bottle Give kegland a call tomorrow and ask 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegory Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Back Brewing said: Yes but they are not saying you can't ferment normally and bottle Give kegland a call tomorrow and ask You are right, the next line says "that doesn't mean you can't." Good idea, go straight to the source. I think you and @kmar92 are probably right, it's more related to the yeast but I will give them a ring when I get an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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