brewing

[iBooz2]

2 hours ago, JoesBrewingMissionNZ said:

Hey guys 4 days same SG of 1011, I've decided to make some room in the fridge to fit the FV for a couple days added the clarification solution bc even though it's my first brew I feel like it's not a complicated step to improve the quality of the beer by a good margin so yeah. I'll just have to deal with the flatmates Mrs later on so far so good, tastes alright, a little bit fruity like kind of like a white wine flavour to it, I'm curious is that fairly normal at thing stage and will it go away with further fermenting in the bottles next week? I would like it to taste more like a lager then a chardonnay

Brews that have a high ratio of sugar (brewing sugar, dextrose and the like) to malt tend to have cider-ish notes about them.  Is the taste or your sample leaning more toward Chardonnay or more towards a cider?  I would not have bothered with clarification solutions at this early stage in your brewing career as it will clear up with time in the bottle (or keg), I never use them. 

I would have just bottled this baby up and gotten on with the next brew but this time use light dry malt or a combo of light dry malt and wheat malt (check to see if your LHBS has these) and use instead of brewing sugars / dex and you will be amazed at the improvement in your beers.  If you can source a tin of Coopers Wheat Malt add that to your kit tin beer and then maybe a little brewing sugar / dex to get your required ABV right you will be laughing like a fat spider. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by iBooz2

[Classic Brewing Co]

23 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Brews that have a high ratio of sugar (brewing sugar, dextrose and the like) to malt tend to have cider-ish notes about them.  Is the taste or your sample leaning more toward Chardonnay or more towards a cider?  I would not have bothered with clarification solutions at this early stage in your brewing career as it will clear up with time in the bottle (or keg), I never use them. 

I would have just bottled this baby up and gotten on with the next brew but this time use light dry malt or a combo of light dry malt and wheat malt (check to see if your LHBS has these) and use instead of brewing sugars / dex and you will be amazed at the improvement in your beers.  If you can source a tin of Coopers Wheat Malt add that to your kit tin beer and then maybe a little brewing sugar / dex to get your required ABV right you will be laughing like a fat spider. 

I couldn't agree more.

[Oldbloke]

53 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Brews that have a high ratio of sugar (brewing sugar, dextrose and the like) to malt tend to have cider-ish notes about them.  Is the taste or your sample leaning more toward Chardonnay or more towards a cider?  I would not have bothered with clarification solutions at this early stage in your brewing career as it will clear up with time in the bottle (or keg), I never use them. 

I would have just bottled this baby up and gotten on with the next brew but this time use light dry malt or a combo of light dry malt and wheat malt (check to see if your LHBS has these) and use instead of brewing sugars / dex and you will be amazed at the improvement in your beers.  If you can source a tin of Coopers Wheat Malt add that to your kit tin beer and then maybe a little brewing sugar / dex to get your required ABV right you will be laughing like a fat spider. 

Yep, Malt makes a big difference.  Ibooz didn't mention normal liquid Malt, another option.

I don't bother with finning either. Time in the bottle does it for you.

[JoesBrewingMissionNZ]

21 hours ago, Kegory said:

Are you going to lager it?

Yes I plan on lagering it, I'm not in a rush, I just want to make a nice beer that I can enjoy and that others would enjoy, so yeah I've just brought a fridge off Facebook for future brewing efforts as well, though, idk if I can quite say I've crash cooled it properly, thermometer is saying it's around 10C atm, how do you guys get it down to the 0-2C for proper crash cooling? I even used a near frozen wet towel to try drop the Temps even faster, I know it's only been 1 day since going in the fridge but I figured it would already look less cloudy especially with the Brewer coop fining solution.

[JoesBrewingMissionNZ]

20 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Brews that have a high ratio of sugar (brewing sugar, dextrose and the like) to malt tend to have cider-ish notes about them.  Is the taste or your sample leaning more toward Chardonnay or more towards a cider?  I would not have bothered with clarification solutions at this early stage in your brewing career as it will clear up with time in the bottle (or keg), I never use them. 

I would have just bottled this baby up and gotten on with the next brew but this time use light dry malt or a combo of light dry malt and wheat malt (check to see if your LHBS has these) and use instead of brewing sugars / dex and you will be amazed at the improvement in your beers.  If you can source a tin of Coopers Wheat Malt add that to your kit tin beer and then maybe a little brewing sugar / dex to get your required ABV right you will be laughing like a fat spider. 

Thanks Ibooz, probably more towards cider to be fair, and I will definitely try that.

I was thinking of doing a NZ draught/lager next using black rock components, I'll attach the ingredients and if you guys want to let me know what you think that would be awesome. 

These malts you're talking about do they come as a powder and liquid? Are they similar to the tin kit malt extracts? Or have I got myself mumbled up and the tin kits are a concentrated wort with lots of malt?

Also so what you're saying is these beers are going to remain fruity no matter what? Doesn't matter how long they sit.

Also I have Coopers carbonation drops, I was told earlier it is better to bulk carbonate then to use the drops, however I'm now wondering if I add more sugar, will it taste even fruitier?

And last of all, apologies for the long read, when lagering, I'm having a hard time understanding, is it meant to be the whole FV lagering or are you meant to bottle then lager?

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, JoesBrewingMissionNZ said:

Yes I plan on lagering it, I'm not in a rush, I just want to make a nice beer that I can enjoy and that others would enjoy, so yeah I've just brought a fridge off Facebook for future brewing efforts as well, though, idk if I can quite say I've crash cooled it properly, thermometer is saying it's around 10C atm, how do you guys get it down to the 0-2C for proper crash cooling? I even used a near frozen wet towel to try drop the Temps even faster, I know it's only been 1 day since going in the fridge but I figured it would already look less cloudy especially with the Brewer coop fining solution.

I'm just learning, too. I've got a very cold fridge I'll use for lagering. As for cold crashing, the temperatures are going to drop pretty low at night this week so I'll just be taking advantage of that and see how it comes out.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Kegory said:

how do you guys get it down to the 0-2C for proper crash cooling?

With proper temperature control it is easy to dial in a target temp for that purpose & of course normal brewing, I have a Mangrove Jack STC-1000 but there are more sophisticated models available as Ink bird even with wi-fi so you can control it with your phone.

https://inkbird.com/products/temperature-controller-itc-308-wifi

 

[Kegory]

15 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

 

Is there a bug in the updated forum? That question you quoted was Joe's question not my question.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Is there a bug in the updated forum? That question you quoted was Joe's question not my question.

Nah mate it was probably my fault even though I highlighted the text from his post.

[Oldbloke]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

With proper temperature control it is easy to dial in a target temp for that purpose & of course normal brewing, I have a Mangrove Jack STC-1000 but there are more sophisticated models available as Ink bird even with wi-fi so you can control it with your phone.

https://inkbird.com/products/temperature-controller-itc-308-wifi

 

I gather you need WiFi in the house to use that option?

[Classic Brewing Co]

28 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

I gather you need WiFi in the house to use that option?

I will be totally honest & say 'I would imagine so' but I guess there could be a chance you could run it in conjunction with the mobile data on your phone.

More than likely NBN or similar would have to be live in your house.

 

[iBooz2]

5 hours ago, JoesBrewingMissionNZ said:

Thanks Ibooz, probably more towards cider to be fair, and I will definitely try that.

I was thinking of doing a NZ draught/lager next using black rock components, I'll attach the ingredients and if you guys want to let me know what you think that would be awesome. 

These malts you're talking about do they come as a powder and liquid? Are they similar to the tin kit malt extracts? Or have I got myself mumbled up and the tin kits are a concentrated wort with lots of malt?

Also so what you're saying is these beers are going to remain fruity no matter what? Doesn't matter how long they sit.

Also I have Coopers carbonation drops, I was told earlier it is better to bulk carbonate then to use the drops, however I'm now wondering if I add more sugar, will it taste even fruitier?

And last of all, apologies for the long read, when lagering, I'm having a hard time understanding, is it meant to be the whole FV lagering or are you meant to bottle then lager?

@JoesBrewingMissionNZ Yes any beer brewed with high sugar to malt content will have that, what I call slight cider-ish taste until end of days.  You can hide it somewhat with hop additions during brewing or using like a dry hop during the ferment but best to use a lot more malts, either dry or canned variety in the first place. 

In your neck of the world, canned malts are called un-hopped extract.  I cannot be specific as your chosen brand of products is in direct opposition to our Coopers DIY (I think).  If you use a can of NZ draught/Lager and also a can of un-hopped light or a can of un-hopped wheat malt as an addition then you will have made a good beer.  Most LHBS sell powdered light dry malt products by the kilo and bulk bags and these are usually cheaper than a can of un-hopped malt extract.

There are a few processes in making a lager.

1. Fermenting it out with a proper lager yeast and at a proper lager ferment temperature.
2. Doing a D-Rest at the end of the lager ferment stage by upping the ferment temp by a few degrees C above its normal lager yeast ferment range, do this for a few days.
3. Doing a cold crash at the end of the D-Rest by getting the beer in the fermenter down to say 2 C for a few days at least.  This helps drop any suspended yeast and helps clear the beer.
4. Bottling (or kegging) and then letting the bottled beer (if bottled) come back up to a temperature up around the same D-Rest temps used previously so that the sugars in the bottle are eaten and converted to alcohol and CO2 to carbonate the bottles.  After say two to three weeks at this higher temperature you then will actually lager the bottles just like a keg.
5. Lagering is when you put the previously carbonated bottles or gassed up keg in a very cool place for a few weeks or even months to condition.  After about 4 weeks a lager in the bottle or keg will become super clear and very drinkable.

Hope that helps you understand the process of lager brewing.

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by iBooz2

[Kegory]

36 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

I gather you need WiFi in the house to use that option?

It looks to have all the same buttons as the non-wifi unit so it would almost certainly work without wifi in the home. You just wouldn't be able to adjust it remotely.

[iBooz2]

5 hours ago, JoesBrewingMissionNZ said:

I was thinking of doing a NZ draught/lager next using black rock components, I'll attach the ingredients and if you guys want to let me know what you think that would be awesome. 

Precisely @JoesBrewingMissionNZ, I have a saying, or mathematical formula of advice for new brewers on this forum.

Ask Twice - Brew Once = Good Beer.

GB = AT-BO

Edited May 1, 2023 by iBooz2

[Oldbloke]

18 minutes ago, Kegory said:

It looks to have all the same buttons as the non-wifi unit so it would almost certainly work without wifi in the home. You just wouldn't be able to adjust it remotely.

Understand. That image was the basic model.  Identical to mine.

 

The point I was making is that if you want to use the WiFi model you need WiFi in the house and connect the inkbird.

[Kegory]

Just now, Oldbloke said:

Understand. That image was the basic model.  Identical to mine.

 

The point I was making is that if you want to use the WiFi model you need WiFi in the house and connect the inkbird.

Yes it was but I was recently looking at both models before I made my purchase. The wifi model has identical controls on the front. It appears that it would work manually without wifi in the house, like many other technologies that have been upgraded to be wifi compatible.

However, as I don't have wifi, I just hotspot from my phone, I just purchased the earlier version so I can't confirm 100%.

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Yes it was but I was recently looking at both models before I made my purchase. The wifi model has identical controls on the front. It appears that it would work manually without wifi in the house, like many other technologies that have been upgraded to be wifi compatible.

However, as I don't have wifi, I just hotspot from my phone, I just purchased the earlier version so I can't confirm 100%.

Well as I meant before, I don't own one, have never studied them but it does make sense that it could be fully functional without the Wi-Fi, so that must be an option, or you could hot spot from your phone.

[Kegory]

3 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Well as I meant before, I don't own one, have never studied them but it does make sense that it could be fully functional without the Wi-Fi, so that must be an option, or you could hot spot from your phone.

Maybe, maybe not. I used to connect a lot of devices, some are more tricky than others. But I left that industry a couple of years ago and things were advancing every six months or so. It's definitely not out of the realms of possibility.

And here's the but. Even if you could connect it directly to your phone and control it there's no great advantage to doing so. Your phone's mobile hotspot only has a short range. The advantage of connecting it to your home wifi is that you can go camping, fishing, interstate, even overseas and control the Inkbird. Time to up the temp for the D-rest but you're in Adelaide for the Gather Round? No problem, you can change the settings on your phone. Time to cold crash but you're in Sydney watching the New Years Eve fireworks on the harbour? No problem, you can change the settings on your phone.

[Oldbloke]

18 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Maybe, maybe not. I used to connect a lot of devices, some are more tricky than others. But I left that industry a couple of years ago and things were advancing every six months or so. It's definitely not out of the realms of possibility.

And here's the but. Even if you could connect it directly to your phone and control it there's no great advantage to doing so. Your phone's mobile hotspot only has a short range. The advantage of connecting it to your home wifi is that you can go camping, fishing, interstate, even overseas and control the Inkbird. Time to up the temp for the D-rest but you're in Adelaide for the Gather Round? No problem, you can change the settings on your phone. Time to cold crash but you're in Sydney watching the New Years Eve fireworks on the harbour? No problem, you can change the settings on your phone.

That was my understanding. Hot spotting to ph is next to useless. 

[iBooz2]

5 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

That was my understanding. Hot spotting to ph is next to useless. 

You cannot hot spot a non-WiFi device to any phone unless that device has a separate Bluetooth or USB connection capability.  I have a WiFi Inky and never use that feature as I have never had the need or desire to.

Edited May 1, 2023 by iBooz2

[JoesBrewingMissionNZ]

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

Precisely @JoesBrewingMissionNZ, I have a saying, or mathematical formula of advice for new brewers on this forum.

Ask Twice - Brew Once = Good Beer.

GB = AT-BO

Thanks booz, yeah I've been trying to sponge up all the info i can to make some good beer for a home and dial in my skills before i start fufuing around playing with different malts, yeasts, hops and flavors.

honestly it's been great to have a good community to help and ask advice on brewing as for a first time it's really boosting my confidence.

I'm just trying to figure out what I want for my next brew, I kinda want to do a quicker brew this time, but I'm hung up on whether or not to do the NZ draught which is a lager too, I might have to give a pale ale a try i think, i'm still to decide haha

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, Oldbloke said:

That was my understanding. Hot spotting to ph is next to useless. 

Agreed. And on it's own even with wifi it's probably a bit superfluous but if you also had a RAPTpill or Tilt or some other in-fermenter hydrometer then you'd be able to take advantage of the real-time functionality.

[ChairmanDrew]

15 hours ago, JoesBrewingMissionNZ said:

Thanks booz, yeah I've been trying to sponge up all the info i can to make some good beer for a home and dial in my skills before i start fufuing around playing with different malts, yeasts, hops and flavors.

honestly it's been great to have a good community to help and ask advice on brewing as for a first time it's really boosting my confidence.

I'm just trying to figure out what I want for my next brew, I kinda want to do a quicker brew this time, but I'm hung up on whether or not to do the NZ draught which is a lager too, I might have to give a pale ale a try i think, i'm still to decide haha

Heeeeey Joe...

I kind of in the same waka as you, trying to use extract to make drinkable but cheap beer. So far I've tried the bottom of the barrel and used a can of extract with a kg of table sugar. While it usually drinkable (as in, you can hold it down), it's not exactly appealing. Next I've done half sugar, half DME. This certainly bumps up the cost of the brew (the DME is usually about $10 for 500gm), but it is still what you would consider a cheap brew. The big difference I've found is adding hops, which if you are conservative, wont add too much to the overall cost (Green Bullet seem to be the cheapest, and should provide that familiar NZ lager taste). But a little goes a long way to improving the brew. Being that you are in Auckland, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a homebrew supplies shop locally (Hauraki Home Brew is one I'm aware of).

I'm just about to bottle up a Coopers Draught I made with a bag of generic Mangrove Jacks enhancer, and a small of amount of fresh hops thrown in for aroma (the last of the season's haul). Hoping for a nice one. If you are wanting to branch out from "lager" style extracts, I'd recommend Coopers Real Ale for a start, while experimenting with a few adjuncts as I mentioned above. 

 

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

a can of extract with a kg of table sugar

I can only imagine what that was like, sweet, cidery, no body, probably no head either. I would lose the sugar completely.

A better brew is the can of extract plus the whole box of Brew Enhancer relating to can instructions & a minimum addition of 500gms of Light Dry Malt - LDM.

Malts are available in dried or liquid form LDM - Light Dried Malt or LME - Liquid Malt Extract varying in different volumes depending on brand.

Of course, if cost is the factor, you could emit the malt & you will still have a nice beer.

Hops of course for bittering & flavouring.

[JoesBrewingMissionNZ]

6 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Heeeeey Joe...

I kind of in the same waka as you, trying to use extract to make drinkable but cheap beer. So far I've tried the bottom of the barrel and used a can of extract with a kg of table sugar. While it usually drinkable (as in, you can hold it down), it's not exactly appealing. Next I've done half sugar, half DME. This certainly bumps up the cost of the brew (the DME is usually about $10 for 500gm), but it is still what you would consider a cheap brew. The big difference I've found is adding hops, which if you are conservative, wont add too much to the overall cost (Green Bullet seem to be the cheapest, and should provide that familiar NZ lager taste). But a little goes a long way to improving the brew. Being that you are in Auckland, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a homebrew supplies shop locally (Hauraki Home Brew is one I'm aware of).

I'm just about to bottle up a Coopers Draught I made with a bag of generic Mangrove Jacks enhancer, and a small of amount of fresh hops thrown in for aroma (the last of the season's haul). Hoping for a nice one. If you are wanting to branch out from "lager" style extracts, I'd recommend Coopers Real Ale for a start, while experimenting with a few adjuncts as I mentioned above. 

 

 

Cheers bro, yeah I've been pretty successful with this Mexican cerveza from Coopers using 1kg of brewing sugar, it's a little cidery but not over powering, I just bottled today so I'll keep everyone informed how it goes. 

Doesn't really taste like Corona bit ill play around with some hops and using malt instead of sug/dex to keep the sweet/cider flavors out.

So far it's been a real good experience and I am going to do a black rock kit this time around to see how that compares with the Coopers (I will go back and forth quite a bit over the next year or so to get some good examples and see what works for me) but I will be making a NZ draught/lager so it will be quite night and day difference.

And yeah we're in the same waka, I want to keep under $40~ to make 20+L of at least 4.5% beer but I want it to taste pretty good to average, I'm not expecting a lot to begin with but by my 5th brew I want to be like "yup it tastes like beer and it's pretty good, I would pay 3-4 bucks for this", that maybe a bit ignorant of me and how complicated beer brewing can be but that's my goal.

But yeah I did my first bottling today, and I was pretty surprised by how much clarity was gained from sitting for 2 days in the fridge with clarification solution, there was more true in the bottom then expected and the last bottle I filled due to having to be tilted was so cloudy I found it hilarious.