Pale Ale

[Oliver]

Hi folks,

 

 

 

A couple of questions about Cooper's Pale Ale.

 

 

 

Firstly, I was on the weekend drinking some pales (BA 31/1/05). They tasted remarkably like a Little Creatures Pale Ale, with a pronounced Cascade hop character (citrusy). It's like nothing I'd had in a Cooper's Pale Ale before.

 

 

 

Has anyone else come across this? Indeed, have/are Cooper's experimenting with additions of different hops? Would there be another reason for this remarkable citrusy taste?

 

 

 

Secondly, someone suggested to me that they have been experiencing sulphur smells in their commercial Pale Ale recently, reminiscent of those produced by lager yeasts. Has the yeast changed?

[PB2]

There have been no changes to the yeast or the hops. Our Pale Ale can show subtle citrus taste characteristics...this can vary from brew to brew.

[Kai]

Is it the yeast that causes that, Paul? I've heard people mention lemony characters but never experienced it myself.

 

 

 

Does the freshness of the beer affect this?

[kieran]

Oliver, from time to time I've noticed a bit of variation myself. Some would say that its a bad thing (ppl. go to macdonalds all over the world to get dished up the same tasting burger (crappy tasting and unheathy, but fairly consistent!)). I reckon its a good thing. Just like the difference between a pint of Pale ale from the top and the bottom of a keg, variation in bottles is something that I have come to expect (even though its much more milder variation than in keg). Although I must say that every one I've tasted has never tasted anything like LCPA, or cascade hoppy for that matter. I have an all grain LCPA clone here that is bang on (perhaps a bit more hoppy than LCPA though!), and the cascade hop smell in that is far removed from anything I've tasted out of a pale ale bottle.. although that may be due to the over exuberance in the secondary hopping in my brew! ;)

[PB2]

It is primarily the yeast reacting to its environment! Bottle age could be one factor...secondary fermentation conditions, another...malt characteristics, another?

 

 

 

I guess this is the magic of naturally conditioned beer.

[Oliver]

I guess this is the magic of naturally conditioned beer.

 

 

 

Indeed it is :D

[PaleMan]

I too have noticed big differences in PaleAle. More so in the last couple of years. I have been a PaleAle drinker for a very long time. As Oliver mentioned, i have noticed that lager smell when opening the bottle.

 

 

 

Anyway, i dont want to sit here and dispute or agree with the facts, because i dont know for sure. All i know is i still enjoy PaleAle......and if it is changing to

 

suit another or younger market, please dont change it too much. :roll:

[kieran]

Don't forget fellahs' date=' this is NOT a mass-produced product[/quote']

 

 

 

You don't reckon?

 

 

 

I don't mean to tarnish them with the same brush as Foster's or Lion Nathan, but they're not the 'little fish' they once were. They're a marketting powerhouse now.. In my street in melbourne, I quite often (like this morning in fact) see empty Sparkling ale cartons in the recycling bins lining our street.

[PB2]

G'day Wort's Up,

 

your quote describes our Sparkling Ale (simply referred to as as "Ale" within the brewery).

 

 

 

We supply plenty of our Sparkling Ale to the Sydney area - problem solved!!

[kieran]

wort: I think one of the main reasons our beers are changing is tax. Our 'commercial ales' were not always this low in alcohol content.

 

 

 

There are two ways to stop tax bracket creep hiking up the prices of beer, both of them see you get less alcohol in your gob per bottle:

 

(1) lower volume, same price

 

(2) lower alcohol content, same volume, same price

 

 

 

Of course, there's cpi always pushing prices higher aswell anyway, but this is specifically to keep costs down to minimise over-the-counter taxation.

 

 

 

You see certain brands selling in 333ml bottles now, and others at 375ml with lower alcohol content than perhaps 15 years ago. The greedy government disguised as 'health initiatives' has probably been a large factor in the change. Just like Speed Cameras save lives, not line the pockets of the government. Smoking, Pokies, the government as a long line of addictions, and alcohol is one of the biggest.

 

 

 

I just still don't get the disequilibrium between the cost of wine vs. beer though! Why is a bottle of wine with 8 standard drinks go for $8 - but a 6 pack with an avg. of 7 standard drinks go for ~$15. I guess theres many more issues there...

[phAT YAK]

lets just say that temps are all over the place at the moment and every state is different even when cold fermenting the systems

we use vary alot no matter what we do to control them, even if we rely on technology to guide us its never the same[happy]

[phAT YAK]

The cost of wine versus beer is the amount of peaple making wine compared to beer is a huge difference and the competitive market from around the world in wine making and the very unbalanced weather and pest conditions in the wine industries that make it cheaper to consume wine therefore is it really worth making wine for consumer reasons I say s*#t no.

 

[JohnK12]

I can say for a certainty that Coopers' stout (my standard day to day beer) mellows and changes in the bottle/longneck;

 

~ 3 months, harsher malt and bitterness from the hops (as stout around my area is not frequently consumed, this is typically 4 months after the best after date).

 

~ 6 months, malt and bitterness mellows and complements each other. Booze creeps up slightly. Black patent ashy roast slightly eases off.

 

~ 7 months + it depends

 

As to the abv, the stout was lowered and the old stout was chucked out. Shame, as I'd gladly pay a little more for the original strength. I do know that if the stout changes again, I'll find another in its place, 6.3% is low enough for an export stout.

 

As to the taste, the ale's are bottle conditioned, so Coopers doesn't have full 100% control over the taste. It varies. Which is great. Why would you want the same homogenized rubbish in ale?

 

I've always wondered though, does the stout use roasted barley? I read it used black patent exclusively - is this true?

 

 

[PB2]

Yes, our BES has Roasted Malt rather than Roasted Barley.

[JohnK12]

Good to know. I'd say black patent fits better in the flavor profile than roasted barley at least in export style stouts.

[Soundawake]

A friend and I have gotten right into sampling each month's Pale Ale and comparing, and also cellaring and sampling Sparkling and Pale at different ages.

 

For the record, the Nov '11 Pale batch we found very average indeed, and the Dec batch was miles better.

 

We also noted a point at 6-7 weeks that Sparkling undergoes a change, and suddenly goes much cloudier in the bottle and mellows out significantly.

 

But the main thing we have noticed is both Pale and Sparkling are ever changing, and evolving, and differences can be found from 1 month to the next.

 

I also think Sparkling is right at its peak at 18 months... by 2 years its on its way down.