John1525228445 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Been brewing and bottling since about 1970 (God, how time flies when you're having fun) and I've got that down to a fine art. However I'm now into the kegging learning curve. The instructions were pretty basic: brew normally, gas at 400 KPA for 24 hours, readjust the gas gas to 30 KPA and enjoy perfect beer. So I modified one of the beer fridges with the gas line through the side to the keg and the tap at a convenient height on the door. No problem ! Yer. The result is far too much head and beer that is half flat (no rising bubbles). The flavour is immature, if it were a bottled brew you would leave it for another couple of weeks. I tried varying the gas pressure a little in the two subsequent brews but not much improvement. Any suggestions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Rising bubbles happens as CO2 breaks out of solution. Maybe you are not allowing a long enough period for the CO2 to dissolve into solution or maybe your keg is not cold enough for the brew to take on the CO2 (should be 4C or less). I use 70kpa to push the brew through the line but this will depend on the length of your line (mine is about 3 feet)...the longer the line the higher the pressure required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1525228445 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Thanks, Paul. I'll make some adjustments. Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 From the FAQ section of website: Troubleshooting Degassing the keg over a day or two will usually rectify over-carbonation. Agitate the keg and release the CO2 several times a day until the beer has reached the desired level of carbonation. If the beer is pouring badly but appears to have little or no carbonation, check to ensure that there are no kinks or holes in the beer and gas lines. Contrary to logic, heady beer can be a result of low gas pressure and increasing the pressure via the regulator will often fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1525228445 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 Thanks to you also, Frank. Every bit of advice is warmly welcomed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 John, I had a simular problems when I started on barrels and though reading different book and trial and error I found that the amount beer absorbs CO2 depends on temperature, pressure applied and volume of beer. So out of all that I Cool the barrel to around 4 degs as Paul suggested and apply 300kPa for 24 hrs (this is for 22lts of beer) and push it out at 100kPa (about 1500mm of line). I also find that the beer is heady for a couple of glass after I clean and sterilise the lines but comes right. Cheers, JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1525228445 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Share Posted April 9, 2005 Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. It's been a couple of months now since I began this experiment and, using the advice from you blokes, modified to suit my own equipment, the result is VERY good. I still need to bottle a brew every now and again to fill the gap when the keg empties but that can be remedied by installing a second keg system! Regards to all, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Hi Paul, What pressure would you suggest to dispense at when your tap is connected to the keg (no beer line)? I have a feeling my keg is undergassed as I'm having the same problems as John had. I also noticed a tiny bit of beer in the gas line while I was carbonating the keg. Is this normal? How can I save this barrel? It's at about 4deg at the moment. Thanks, Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Good question. Having never attached the tap directly to the keg, I can only guess that you would want to reduce the pressure to something less than 70kpa. Of course, the lower you make the serving pressure the more chance the beer has of going flat over time. Beer in your gas line normally means that you filled the keg too high and the beer has foamed up through the gas inlet. Don't worry about it for now...just clean out the line once the keg is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 at our housemate's going away party last weekend, we had a keg with a tap connected directly to it (one of the plastic jobbies you see on ebay). The ale within was naturally carbonated, we released pressure until it was atmospheric, and gave it a measured dose with a 2 second shot of gas at about 5psi (about 35 kpa).. that was enough to see it dispensed until the whole corny was empty.. There's still a certain je ne sais quoi about naturally carbonating rather than force carbing (esp. with ales). Of course if you're filtering, then you have no choice.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 :D Joy :D Took Kieran's advice. Poured like a beauty! I'll be naturally conditioning from now on... Just couldn't wait for the first keg so force carbonated it. The BOC truck driver who delivers to my work informed me that BOC has been bought out by Linde Gas. Don't know what that means for the home brewer. Probably nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 :) Luke: apparently Air Liquide in melbourne is the place to go to: dirt cheap! apparently $15 a refill and $30 a year for a 9kg bottle. My brother was up for well over $130 in Darwin from BOC. The natural carbonation saves on your CO2 usage aswell.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Glad this topic is alive at the moment as I too am taking the keg path, pick up the workings next Tuesday. OK, everyone I talk to who is kegging here say 400kpa for 24 hrs then approx 100kpa for pouring and drinking straight away, and the ones I've sampled are pretty good, but all have been lagers. Now, I'm into ales and obviously want the very best I can produce so my question is, what's the best way to naturally carbonate the keg? Dumb question probably :? , but if it is a matter of adding sugar to the keg and letting it condition for a month or so what amount of sugar do you add to 18lts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 BigAl.. certainly not a dumb question. Its a simple question with a complex answer! I've got a calculator here from a guy on Aussie Homebrewer.com The amount of carbonation really depends on the style of your beer.. We all know some are flatter than others, and others almost like champagne. So the amount of sugar used to kick off the secondary fermentation depends on the style of beer you're aiming for. To make things just a little more complicated, the amount of CO2 absorbed in beer depends on the temperature: for 18L, if the secondary ferment is happening at 19C (if the temp is warmer, you'll need a touch more sugar): British Ale: 73g Porter/Stout: 93g European Lager: 120g American Ale: 120g German Wheat Beer: 233g These are the upper ends of the ranges, you could potentially drop each by 30g and still be within range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 BigAl, I think you should start with the Porter/Stout priming rate and work it out for yourself from there. Kieran, have you actually primed a keg at the German Wheat Beer rate? That is a lot of gas!! It looks like you would need to run a separate beer line tuned to the priming rate - the serving pressure would need to be adjusted to ensue that the beer maintains the intended carbonation level as the keg is emptied?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Sure havent! As I said, I just used the programme and it has the suggested CO2 volumes of somewhere around 3.3-4.5. As mentioned for German Wit, I used the 4.5 end of the scale which is at the upper end by a mile. I think the programme uses data presented here: http://www.hbd.org/brewery/library/YPrimerMH.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I wonder if the author of the article has primed a keg with 233g of sugar to 18litres and served it successfully?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 This is far more extensive and has the same upper Volume CO2 for German Witbier: http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html and these are according to BJCP styles. Maybe there is a general rule to drop by one volume for kegging, or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Right!.......have done my first keg, a nice Pale Ale, carbonated at 300kPa for 36 hrs @ 3 degC and pouring at 70kPa. Must say not bad for my first effort. However did notice this brew was more bitter than bottled ales I've made before, but not worried as I know this will mellow out over the next couple of weeks, if it lives that long! :wink: My next keg will be naturally carbonated and I'm going with the 1/3 level cup of sugar as the primer. Do I purge the air out of the keg with CO2 or just leave it as I would in bottles? The one thing I miss about the kegging is the washing/sterilising carbonating, filling and capping of 60 stubbies/30 pep bottles...........NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 You can purge the keg if you like. I don't bother because yeast is an oxygen scavenger so, with the help of the priming sugar, it will mop up all the oxygen in quick time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 :D Joy :D Took Kieran's advice. Poured like a beauty! FYI. I found that I needed to crack the regulator open just a fraction. About >2 psi on my setup for the perfect pour, remembering that I have no beer line. Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 One thing I have found which is a tad annoying, when I go to pour a beer the gun 'spits' initially then pours OK, don't recall seeing this happen in the pub??? Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong. :? I notice that the line has air in it for about 4cm before the gun. NOTE: Beer pours perfectly after the initial 'spit'?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 This has happened to me...I think it's CO2 breakout because the pouring pressure for the length of line is too low for the volume of CO2 dissolved in the brew?? The gas bubble will rise so you could try placing the gun below the keg outlet (this worked for me). or Increase your line length and serving pressure to get equalisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c38293 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 JOHN- pour beer into keg give a burst of gas into keg then pull valve to get rid of oxygen --chill kegs to 4c ---gas at 400 kpa for 36 hours---dispense all gas--then pour at 60 kpa-- this is for a 18 litre keg --enjoy-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 My word, I've just come from the Grumpy's forum with exactly the same topic under the microscope. http://www.grumpys.com.au/phorum/read.php?1,1010 What they came down to is pretty much what Paul has already said. In addition, your taps/dispensers - keep them cold if possible - increased temps at the tap will also encourage the gas to evaporate out of your beer. I'm just passing on other's advice as I'm yet to still fill my first keg (just need the gas and I'm set) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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