Guest Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Hi guys. I was just curious on the thoughts & experiences of those brewers on the forum that have experience with using specialty malt grains in their brewing. Most of the ale recipes I have seen posted on the forum since I joined, regardless of whether they were All Grain Based, extract based or even kit based, have shown a definite restriction in the amount of specialty grains used. It's like an underlying limit exists for using these grains. Is this so? If so, what weights/percentages are most of you guys using as a common weight/percentage, & how far forward from that have you gone where you reached undesirable flavours as an end result of using too much specialty grain. I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts. [cool] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 I thought you just found a holy grail in about a kilo of spec malts? [roll] On a serious note, its all about making a balance between malt and hop, too much of one or the other tends to throw a recipe out. Its been my experience that spec malt is easily the best way to ruin an otherwise tasty batch by 'over doing it' Look man, I know you think little of my advice usually, but the fact that you are still asking questions like this shows that recipe formulation is still something that for you, needs work. Im happy for you to refute what I have to say and discover it for yourself (eventually) but personally, I always liked to benefit from others mistakes in order not to make them myself... If I was to say dont add a kilo of dex to your brew, would you argue? Possibly.. If I was to say that a kilo of spec malts was too much and would throw a kit brew out of balance would you argue? Possibly. In saying all that it really does depend on a few other factors, what recipe? What spec malt? and most importantly what are you adding it for what reason? You should always be adding for a reason, not just coz. Take it or leave it man, I really dont care if you think Im speaking out my ass, thats the way I see it, thats the way I brew it.. and for what it's worth, quite a few of my IPA/IIPA recipes have a significant amount of crystal grains in the bill.. damned if you could pick it hough coz it all balances. I hope this helps you to begin to understand. DGIF if it doesnt. Peace Yo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hi Lusty Not sure what you are looking for here. Whether you are doing extract or All Grain brewing will not really affect the quantity or type of specialty grain used. These grains are there to enhance colors, flavours and body as well as head retention. Specialty grains generally do not provide fermentable sugars and hence will not affect the ABV. I am a home brewer who follows recipes that have been tried and true for the different beer styles and would not try to suggest I can design beers. But it seems clear to me that if you are attempting to brew a particular category of beer there will be underlying limits on which specialty grains you can use and how much. If you exceed the limits then the color , flavour etc will not conform to that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hi Yob. I thought you just found a holy grail in about a kilo of spec malts? I'm glad you spotted that in another thread. [biggrin] Yes, for my likings for certain flavours, I believe I have. I will admit it was with some luck through pure experimentation that it was achieved. [innocent] I am truly stoked with it! My basis for trying a larger volume of specialty grain came from my knowledge of wine & particularly blended wines. The complexities of flavour in blended wines come from the different characteristics of each of the different grapes that make up the blend. Add to that darker beers derive much of their flavour from the malts as opposed to the hops, it seemed a logical step to adopt that principal for an APA/IPA using suitable specialty malts to create that base. Look man' date=' I know you think little of my advice usually, but the fact that you are still asking questions like this shows that recipe formulation is still something that for you, needs work.[/quote'] I actually think a great deal of your advice, I just don't get much of an opportunity to say it. I've also learned (& continue to learn) a great deal from what flies off of your keyboard & lands in the threads of this forum. I don't have the advanced software programs like BeerSmith etc. to help formulate correct usages of certain grain types to help develop recipes, so I sort of "fly by the seat of my pants" a fair bit with my brewing. I like experimenting anyways. [tongue] Thanks for the positive feedback, and yes, this does "help me to begin to understand". It's a new year, & I will be trying to be more positive as a general rule, and "Lighten up a bit", as has been suggested. [lol] Peace. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 It isn't just specialty grains that affect the flavour of the brew. Now that you do a mini-mash you can experiment with different base malts too. This might enable you to experiment with malts but keep your recipe a little more balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Eh!L Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think the rule of thumb for quantity of spec. malts is 0-30% of total grain bill. This is a gerenal statement and is intended to confuse everyone (including myself)[innocent] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilboBaggins Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey Lusty. This is something that caused me a bit of confusion when I began concocting my own recipes. Now, whenever I am creating something for the first time, I use this same rigid grain bill, and then modify it next time if I reckon it can use more spec grain. As Yob says, too much can wreck your beer if it isn't suited to the style or if there is insufficient bitterness to even out the residual sweetness. Pilot bill for a regular ale: 80% base malt 10% wheat 10% whatever combo of caramel/crystal grains I want The BJCP style guidelines usually will not give you percentage ranges for what types of grain are required, but other sites do, and if I'm going to try something different I'll look into that (don't have a link handy unfortunately.) I wrecked one brew by adding too much, and always err on the side of caution these days. [rightful] Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Thanks for all the input guys. Skookum threw up the consensus comment I was hoping for, about the 0 - 30% addition of specialty grain into a recipe mix. And Phil has now stated a pilot bill he "begins with?". It's all good stuff. [cool] If I was attempting to make a beer for judging at competition level, I would adhere to the BJCP guidelines, & conform to certain levels of ingredients etc. My interests in brewing lie outside conformed styles. There is so much more scope for experimentation & overall enjoyment of brewing beer outside those restrictive guidelines, & that's where I want to be. [biggrin] I did my best to convert the malt base of the recipe I've been shouting from the roof tops of late into a true mathematical percentage breakdown as Yob was trying to highlight in a previous thread. [rightful] Forgive my figures if they are slightly off, but here goes... The malt base weights are listed as an extract form. 3.125kg = Total malt bill 2.3kg base malt (inclusive of wheat dry malt) 74% 0.825kg specialty malts (4 varieties including CaraPils) 26% 0.1kg dextrose 130gms of hops Delicious! [love] [love] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey Lusty Comparing the specialty grains to malt extract isn't quite right; you probably need to compare it to the total 'grain' bill. I did some (very) rough calcs for you in this thread which came in at a lower percentage: Lusty's Thread I have nothing to support this but, from my experience, I find malt extract to have much more residual sweetness than base malt grains mashed at lower temps (64-65 degrees). I would take that into account when designing your beers. In the end it doesn't matter if you add 80% specialty grains so long as you like it. Just qualify it so new brewers don't think this is standard practice [biggrin] An experiment could be to make two half batches side by side with the amount of crystal the only variance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 You're spot on as usual Hairy. [joyful] I did do my best to convert the various malts with the percentage formulas available on the net, but as stated, they may not be exact. I still think they must be pretty close though. [innocent] In the end it doesn't matter if you add 80% specialty grains so long as you like it. Just qualify it so new brewers don't think this is standard practice +1 As far as finding a malt base combination I want for a "House brew" goes, I'm now there. Now I get to play around in Hop Heaven! [cool] Will someone please point me in the direction of the Hop trampoline! [lol] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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