Saunders Malt Extract English Bitter

[Stoobrew]

Yeah sorry I was being a bit of a smart arse friday! Ok so firstly I have eaten humble pie because I left the fermenter with my hybrid lager on the bench for a good week past when I was going to bottle and it dropped another 2 points to 1012fg instead of what I was going to bottle it at a week earlier at 1014...So humble pie has been eaten and it does sound like a reasonable idea to let the beer clear a bit anyways at least 24hrs is the guide line to know that its stable if your going into glass? I will be using glass sooner or later so it is probably good to know this!

 

So Billk

 

The fact that it has happened to me! I actually went to 0.996 and all the brews I was doing at the time went around the same reading regardless of the amount of fermentables I added. I was picking up foreign yeasts/bacteria from somewhere. However, I have since got around this issue now though and many of the longer term posters here will remember the issues I raised at the time.

 

But obviously, being such an experienced brewer and knowing all about horticulture, know better of course.

 

Wow that must have been some intense wild yeast you had going there!! So I know about sterilization due to horticulture...I never said I'm any expert brewer and I probably wouldn't have come near here if I was. Anyways cheers for the help! I havnt had any problems with wild yeast as yet as I just said above I left he fv on the bench for another week and fg again and it had dropped another 2 points, so a lager using an ale yeast was left to ferment at 21 degrees for close to 3 weeks and it came out at 1012! But thanks for the heads up on the book about yeast :) Always eager to learn something new!!

 

You should be able to get 2 FV's at Bunnings for $30!

yeeeeeah but I like 30L fv's and they are only $5 more!!

 

GavinE

hard to remember, been brewing for 20 years, but I know at least the last 5 yearsI havent had any beer go below 1.010. saying that I use mainly Malt and more then often add at least 200g of Crystal Malt. But I am also one of those brewers that just leaves the brew alone for 14 days in my brew fridges, once I know fermentation has started, and just take the hydro reading on bottling day for my records. Have never had a bottle bomb in 20 years. REALLY wanna know how this beer turns out! If I can find some I'll probably give it a go.

 

It shall be known, one may have possibly been cracked because an old mate dropped around on sunday....but no one gets to hear how bad it is(ducks flying objects)...just yet! Saunders malt..either ask at your super market or check around where the honey/golden syrup and that kind of stuff is, I'm pretty sure its a common item in any decent sized supermarket? Have seen it around in a few,our supermarket is pretty expensive I should check the bigger one in the next town I'd almost cry with joy if I could find liquid malt for under $9 a kg!!!

 

Anyways thanks for all the help fellas ;) nothing like getting people a bit fired up to get some good answers!! Sorry if anyone was offended and thanks for all the good help! I have def had a crash course in brewing over this thread so I will keep you all posted as it comes out...

[GrahamB8]

I'd almost cry with joy if I could find liquid malt for under $9 a kg!!!

 

Coopers un-hopped liquid malt is under $9/kg its sold in 1.5kg cans for about $11

[Gash Slugg]

finding liquid malt is hard, the LHBS doesnt stock much and the supermarkets never have the coopers unhopped malt, and the cost of postage even capped at $15 is off putting for a stay at home Dad with no income like me, but what I do sometimes is there is a 'Brew Your Own' place not far away from here and they are happy to sell liquid malt if you take your own container.

[GrahamB8]

finding liquid malt is hard' date=' [/quote']

 

Really? My tiny LHBS in the hinterland sells the smallest range of beer making stuff ive ever seen but they always have 2/3 cans of Morgans and/or Coopers malt extract...this guy is literally a 2 door wide store and is only open Friday and Sat mornings

[LordEoin]

nothing like getting people a bit fired up to get some good answers

I find that asking a direct question politely does the job.

It also means that the next time I ask a question, people are less likely to think 'That twat again? F@^* this, I'll read a different thread'

Fair enough, you got a lot of information and opinions from the thread, but maybe at the cost of other information later on.

I intentionally kept out of this thread because it seemed to annoy me every time I attempted reading it.

Now that it has calmed and the mood seems to have improved, I'll jump in.

 

So, back to the original question

Is there any difference at all between unhopped liquid malts and this saunders stuff??

The difference is that brewer's malt extracts are made specifically for brewing. They source ingredients and process them specifically for brewing.

You cannot get different versions of Saunders like extra light, light, dark, wheat. Each of which has a specific purpose (eg, dark for stout, or wheat for wheat beer and a creamier head).

 

Brewing grade malt is higher quality than food grade, which is higher than feed grade.

Comparing Saunders to brewing extracts is like comparing table sugar to brewing sugar, it will do the job but the end result will not be as good, and will not fit the 'flavor profile' of the kit.

 

Additionally, a 1.5kg tin of liquid malt extract is about the same as 1.1kg of dry malt. I round it down to 1kg dry (because my LDM comes in 500g bags) for recipes that call for the liquid malt extract.

So doing it this way is cheaper than using Saunders and will result in better beer.

The next time you're in a brewshop, or order stuff online, bite the bullet and buy a load of dry malt of different darknesses.

You'll use it all eventually, it will save you money, and your beers will taste better (especially if you like to drink them 'young')

[Stoobrew]

Thanks lordeion that's the answer I was after! Something I thought may have been the case! It's lower grade, ok so I have the same problem as Gavin even tho I live where coopers is made I cant find their liquid malt anywhere here in a real shop! Paying postage on coopers malt will destroy the price! Having sais that I put a porter on with dark dry malt and an IPA with lhbs light malt, the recommended one so I will have some kind of comparison! Im also thinking of running another English with same ingredients but full dry malt instead of the Saunders so I will have a good comparison! Also if the Saunders is lower grade it will end up at a lower fg than the brewing stuff! It would be nice to know where in SA stocks coopers malt if anyone knows?

[AdamH1525226084]

If I were you I'd be happy you get anything on the moon [bandit]

[LordEoin]

even tho I live where coopers is made I cant find their liquid malt anywhere here in a real shop!

if you can't get it, forget about it.

1.5kg liquid = 1.1kg dry.

Ordering off the internet will get it to your door for probably about 5 dollars.

If you buy a crap ton of it, the delivery price is spread over all of the bags.

So, if you make one online order for 20 bags of LDM, you're looking at 25cent delivery charge on each.

That's not so bad.

 

i generally use 1kg LDM an 300g Dextrose, and it gives pretty much the same result as 1.5kg liquid with a slightly higher ABV.

 

if the Saunders is lower grade it will end up at a lower fg than the brewing stuff!

That depends on its composition.

If it has more fermentable sugars, than yeah, it will have a lower FG.

However, if it has more non-fermentable matter it will have a higher FG.

I'd guess (and its only a guess) that Brewing malt extract will have a lower FG as it is designed and maunfactured to ferment.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Wow![cool] [biggrin] [lol]

 

Great thread! Who needs to to watch boxing when you can put one Knowitall Plant Nerd in the ring with some veteran homebrewers and watch the Plant nerd swing wildly until he tires himself out? The homebrewer's hardly had to take a swing themselves before the Plant Nerd TKO'ed himself![lol]

 

Gold, pure gold[innocent]

 

BTW Stoo, I'm a plant nerd myself. I find there are not too many similarties with the two hobbies.[annoyed]

[PB2]

BREW Cellar distribute our DIY BEER products to brewing specialist stores across Australia.

 

Here is a link to their store locator: http://www.brewcellar.com.au/stores.asp?state=SA

 

[LordEoin]

And yeah, it has been mentioned a few times already but if you put your actual location instead of 'The Moon' it will help people to help you...

[Stoobrew]

Ok I am no longer a resident of the moon just to make everyone happy (except me) :(

 

BREW Cellar distribute our DIY BEER products to brewing specialist stores across Australia.

 

Thanks PB2...its still 100km trip to the closest one tho. If only Grumpys Brewhaus was still doing HB stuff...missed the boat on that one by a few years!! Actually according to Google Murray Bridge would be a 4km longer drive but 20minutes shorter...well thats good its only a 80min drive to there...

 

Someone really really needs to start up a shop on the inner east side of Adelaide or in the hills near stirling,hahndorf,Mt Barker...100km drive makes postage cheap at any rate!! I cant believe I have to go SO far to get liquid malt :(

 

Can everyone now see my dilemma with the liquid malt??? Its almost unfeasible to drive that far just for malt. I can get dry malt closer to home its still a hike tho...hmmmm back to square one I think!!

 

Wow!Cool Biggrin Lol

 

Great thread! Who needs to to watch boxing when you can put one Knowitall Plant Nerd in the ring with some veteran homebrewers and watch the Plant nerd swing wildly until he tires himself out? The homebrewer's hardly had to take a swing themselves before the Plant Nerd TKO'ed himself!Lol

 

Gold, pure goldInnocent

 

:) Forums die if they are not entertaining I have found...anyways I'm glad someone gets my sense of humor!! Sorry again to anyone I have offended...I'm not one to take life so seriously [alien]

[Matty A]

You could always order from the Coopers Online Store. I recently heard they had a flat rate of $15 postage. That means order in bulk and get the benefits of $15 postage.

 

I am in a similar situation with distance, Its an 80km round trip for me. I often just pop in on the weekend and pick up a couple of stuff.

[Guest]

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about the cans of liquid if I had to go so far to get them. Just use dry malt instead and buy it in bulk but you would need to ensure you can keep it dry. I used to buy the malt in bulk and pack 500g bags in Glad/Ziplock bags.

 

If you are into horticulture then I am sure you will find Yeast fascinating. I personally found it one of the most resourceful books on Yeast around and I seem to find something I missed the more times I read it. Truely a great reference imo!

[Matty A]

I am only able to find light dry malt. If I want the other Malts I have to buy the cans of malt. Things like dark malt, amber malt etc. are way too hard (for me anyway) to find in a spray dried form.

 

Mind you for those kinds of flavours I normally go with grains [biggrin]

[Gash Slugg]

BREW Cellar distribute our DIY BEER products to brewing specialist stores across Australia.

 

Here is a link to their store locator: http://www.brewcellar.com.au/stores.asp?state=SA

the two places near me. Brew Barn (Hoppers Crossing,Vic) Never have new stock of LM cans and seemed to have some stuff from Liquorcraft, pre mixed dried malt/dextrose/malto packets, which is always over priced and doesnt tell you the %s of ingredients, that is actually the place I was talking about that offered me their LM. Grain and Grape shelves always seem to be empty of LM cans too and don't dare ask one of them to look out the back on a Saturday morning for stock, their heads nearly explode. [lol] If I didnt have a baby I could probably ring, order, arrange them. But life isnt like that for me! They should be in the supermarkets with everything else!! Don't get me wrong I'd love to get to my LHBS and stock up, I brew all the time, but the buying of ingredients happens sporadically when the Money Gods and Time and Place Gods line up!! I've already started ordering Hops from overseas for significant savings, will it happen to the rest of my ingredients Mr.Cooper? [wink]

[Stoobrew]

Never were truer words written Gavin:

 

They should be in the supermarkets with everything else!

I dont understand why my local has be1, be2 and no malt, obviously people are buying the be1 and 2...scrap the be1 essentially it only brewing sugar anyways and carry malt and BE2. This is why I was good supermarket manager!

 

And Billk

If you are into horticulture then I am sure you will find Yeast fascinating. I personally found it one of the most resourceful books on Yeast around and I seem to find something I missed the more times I read it. Truely a great reference imo!

 

So my housemate is a uni bum but that comes with one distinct advantage...uni resources, so I got a whole lot of documents on brewing yeasts from the Uni's science department last night ;)

 

 

So if I work out what petrol costs to drive 100km it will actually work out about the same to get a bulk order from coopers...hmmm,I guess the real advantage with coopers is the good yeast that comes with the kits...I might also go and have a chat to some of the craft brewries around my area, surely I will be able to convince one of them to sell me 10kg or 20kg's of malt! I like the sound of packing the dry malt yourself from bulk to keep it dry(I was concerned about that). The guy at the LHBS actually said he could get me a 20kg sack...but it would be anywhere from $150-$220!

 

So it seems like I am definitely NOT the only person having trouble finding malt...guess that is one for Coopers to have a look into I mean every single time I am at Big W I buy a least 1kg and from the look they sold about 30 boxes since I was there the week before....and I got the LAST TWO [devil] *would have bought 6 if they were on the shelf [rightful]

[Gash Slugg]

yeah I think the last time I bought malt it was 5kg and that was about $40. which is a lot cheaper than the 500g packs in the supermarket, but still when you are struggling for $$ and you add some hops at around $10 for 80g, and whatever else you need it all adds up. Coopers come to the party and get a better deal with the supermarkets!!! Its a lot easier for me to say to the wife 'While your shopping just grab some Liquid Malt for me' , saves driving miles to the LHBS and Coopers gets my money. [lol]

[Stoobrew]

Its a lot easier for me to say to the wife 'While your shopping just grab some Liquid Malt for me' , saves driving miles to the LHBS and Coopers gets my money.

 

I hope someone in the marketing department has read this? Or it has been passed on! I really think the time is right for home brew to TAKE OFF in Australia, with the price of standard beer pushing $45 for average carton of beer. Everyone I have talked to who are beer drinkers(and I know a few being a trady)are keen on taking it up for that exact reason. The other thing I have noticed is there are a lot of misconceptions still flying around like and the 3 obvious ones are 1: home brew is hard...which clearly its not. 2: oh I need good water, which you dont! 3.Its to hard to get things to make GOOD beer at home because anyone who has a few brews under their belt seems to have a lust for liquid or dry malt which is HARD to come by(dont mind the pun it just sorta happened)...if only the GOOD products ie liquid and dry malts were readily available in most large supermarkets I think the DIY BEER industry would go from 25k units per year to something like 100-200k with some good advertising! Its all about the beer Coopers is still making the money and its about time with the taxes ever increasing to go for not only the American market but also the market at home! And given that food grade liquid malt is of lesser quality than the brewing grade(have some slight doubts with that but we'll see)then it makes sense for Coopers to at least bring out a liquid malt 1.5kg can that can be used either for brewing or for putting in you milk to help you sleep before bed. Saunders is on the shelf...where is the coopers???...'Im just sayin' [bandit]

[GrahamB8]

Two words ...... Partial Mash [devil]

[Stoobrew]

Two words ...... Partial Mash [devil]

 

Dont worry its going to happen!! I figure that barley is FAR easier and cheaper to get where I live [alien]

[*****]

Brewing grade malt is higher quality than food grade, which is higher than feed grade.

Comparing Saunders to brewing extracts is like comparing table sugar to brewing sugar, it will do the job but the end result will not be as good, and will not fit the 'flavor profile' of the kit.

+1 Eoin

Three months ago I made two near identical brews with the only difference being the malt. On brew used 1kg of what I suspect was food grade liquid malt while the other brew used 500g of LDM specifically made for brewing.

The result at 1 month was very noticeable, the beer made with LDM tasted like beer and was ready to drink. The beer made with the LME, was 2 weeks longer in the bottle, certainly wasn't ready to drink. Although it tasted like beer there was an underlying taste that just wasn't quite right.

 

I have used the same liquid malt before, generic malt in a tub from a LHBS, and at 1 month it tasted like soap, the same at two months however after three months it was much better and superior to the beers that I had made with BE1.

 

Next week I will do the final comparison as both brews will be over 3 months old. I am expecting the brew with the liquid malt to be as good as the original. What I am keen to test is how much better the brew with the LDM is.

[Stoobrew]

+1

During my experimenting with my Bushy Park series I arrived at the same conclusion. There is one home brew shop, BYO 40k round trip that packages its own malt extract in 1kg tubs. Last time I was there the bloke didn't have any; he tells me that National Pies have brought it all. Aha food grade malt.

 

So we have balfours in our state...and as far as I know they make thier meat pies from mostly gravy...which is beef stock and water simmered into gravy then they add about 10% mince(and not the good kind) um...wow you could probably make money selling beer that tastes like meat pies...oh they do http://www.jamessquire.com.au/blog/index.php/2011/01/31/brewers-blog-scribbly-gum-lager/

 

 

;) they must do things a little bit Different in Tassy?? http://www.balfours.com.au/tradsavouries.html Favourite Square Meat Pie

Blend of meat, gravy, herbs and spices encased in Balfours famous traditional pastry.

175g net

 

Thats how I know its in SA...maybe we are weirdos with our Coopers?? [alien]

 

Daughter's bf reckons it was great and wanted me to make more, however his fav beer is Toohey's extra dry

 

Anyone that LIKES...or thier FAVOURITE BEER is Toohey's Extra Dry really does like the taste of soap its that simple, so your saying that you used a food grade malt that was being sold by a home brew shop? Or maybe the bloke running the home brew shop was running his own mash tun out the back and flogging it off as 'liquid malt' [crying] sorry for your experience mate...sounds like a bad one...and for the future..if you want a good response on a home brew get someone that like quality beer to test it for you not someone who loves dry hopped cats piss!

[*****]

I think you missed the point Stoo, so i have edited my post. How to make meat pies and dry hop cat's piss is not really relevant, nor is vilifying someone for their preference in commercially available beer.

Also I never said I had a bad experience so your sympathy is unnecessary. Likewise I have made craft beer clones such as LCPA and the individual, who favours TED to other mega swill brews, quite liked that as well.

At the end of the day what people are saying is that some malt is of much higher quality than other malt. No level of science can disprove what others have empirically tested and proven in their own home breweries.

Like that old saying goes "oils ain't oils".

[Stoobrew]

Ok well everyone can now relax and take a deep breath. I just dropped THE EXACT same EB with a can of Black Rock Amber malt 1,5kg...sg 1047...one point less..even with the amber malt so we will see! I drank teds when it was cheap a long time ago...I get that mate...but you have to also realise how malt is made...then you might change your mind a little bit,being as its the exact same chemical process to make malt, the only real difference is the size of the grain and the protien to sugar content ;) oh yeah I did some learning yesterday [alien] !! Also go read what the Grain farmer said about what barley the breweries buy...that was REALLY interesting to hear from a grower...