Saunders Malt Extract English Bitter

[Stoobrew]

So I put on the second lot of English Bitter yesterday. The first lot came out really well and it was only my second ever brew. So I did the usual went to Big W, bought the can and forgot the LDM . I got home and only had one pack of LDM(insert panic now), now I wanted to up the gravity to about 1050 so I was intending on using 1kg of malt in powdered form. Forgetting I used most of it on the weekend(my first english bitter was a little strong) Anyways long story short, I have been eying off Saunders Malt Extract to use at its 1kg and $9 at coles so I thought how bad could it be and went and bought a tin. So I added some brigalow finishing hops too(ducks flying objects) because im in a little bit of an experimental stage. Anyhow things turned out really well had a Sg of 1048 with 500g LDM and 1kg of Saunders Malt Extract(I have never seen the beer calc hit the nail like that before).

 

So really I am just wondering if there is any difference at all between unhopped liquid malts and this saunders stuff?? Is this the only difference the added hops? Or is there some specific reason people dont use this for home brew? Some magical chemical thing that I dont know about? According to the can the Saunders is 100% malt barley extract. Mind you I have a can from the LHBS that says its 80% malt and 20% water...so the Saunders is technically a more pure liquid malt than that according to ingredients! If anyone has used this I would like to know of the results. Oh I just checked the can and it says its made by Morgan Brewing Co in QLD?? Obviously the rumours about coopers canning it are untrue then :)

[Otto Von Blotto]

Any liquid malt extract will have a percentage of water, it is made by mashing cracked malted barley in water to get the sugars and good stuff out and then using either heat or a vacuum procedure to evaporate most of the water out of it, resulting in the sticky gooey stuff in the cans. They have to leave some water though otherwise you wouldn't be able to pour it. Only the kits have added hops, anything that says "100% pure malt extract" or similar has no added hops.

 

I haven't used this Saunders stuff personally though, I usually buy all my stuff from the LHBS, the prices there aren't drastically different from the supermarkets and obviously a bigger range as well. Plus I can pick up little bits and pieces to help the process each time I buy supplies[happy]

 

Cheers,

Kelsey

 

[Stoobrew]

Yeah I'm on a bit of a mission to produce good beer without spending the earth atm. Unfortunately im about 20km from Big W, the LHBS is about another 10km with petrol at stunning prices I'm looking for alternatives to driving 60km to get some liquid malt!

 

Thanks for the help Kelsey I thought that was the case with the malts, I mean its being made by a brewing company so fingers crossed the beer doesnt come out tasting like anzac biscuits(not that this would be a complete disaster). Its more about ease of access and factoring in travel costs I think is why I'm experimenting with this!

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Dang. Lol. My LHBS is like 2 mins away. But yeah don't blame you not wanting to travel miles to get supplies.

 

The way I see it, it's malted barley extract. It is what it is, whether it's in a Coopers tin or a Muntons tin or whatever other homebrew company's tin. Or in this case none of them. It's still made the same way from the same ingredients i.e. malted barley.. so I can't see any issue with it. Unless they add something else to it. I'm not sure why it would taste like Anzac biscuits, but I did see that mentioned somewhere. Maybe they didn't add enough hops. I might even pick up a tin myself to try it out next brew[lol] After all, homebrewing is all about experimenting with things to see what works and what you like!

[Wayne (Captain Yobbo)]

I have tasted that saunders stuff i have used it in malt milk drinks before on its own it tastes like malt concentrate from the kits just without the hop bitterness tastes pretty much like what you get in the kits im actually going to try it on my sparkling ale when i get around to making it i reckon it will turn out not bad and yes it is made by some brewing company

[Stoobrew]

So my fg was sitting at 1010 this arvo,cant say I took one yesterday but it read 1012 on sunday and I'm happy for it not to go any lower than that! It already tastes and smells amazing, and I'm planning on doing another the exact same tomorrow!!

 

That saunders stuff has come up well imo and will definitely will be using it in future(unless coopers starts up a store front in Adelaide again). I actually used some more for my Pale Ale after again not being able to find malt at the kmart I discovered is about 5km from work :) So it seems to me like this works well as a cheap readily available liquid malt that I dont have to pay postage on woohoo!!!

[Muddy Waters]

Jumping the gun a bit aren't you Stoo? I'd be waiting to see how it tastes after a couple of months in the bottle.

 

I don't mean to burst your bubble, I sincerely hope it turns out great and am very interested in hearing the results, but it is way too early to judge it a success just because fermentation occurred. Fermentation was always a given but how it tastes when matured is key to whether Saunders gets the thumbs up.

[Stoobrew]

Yes I would agree...but I dump if I've drunk a lot of flat beer or something. So full story then if your guna be so serious bout your beer! Was kept at 19 degrees the whole time and wasn't moved so fingers crossed! Nothing has lasted longer than 3 weeks yet that's why my misses said I was like a squirrel stocking up for winter after bottling 6 cartons already this week with another to go! Hoping I can age it b4 it gets finished mate. But will keep you all posted further down the track

[Guest]

So full story then if your guna be so serious bout your beer!

No need to be derogative I wouldn't think. Muddy is only trying to help!

 

So my fg was sitting at 1010 this arvo' date='cant say I took one yesterday but it read 1012 on sunday and I'm happy for it not to go any lower than that![/quote']

 

How can you propose that it is not going lower than that without a hydrometer reading to confirm fermentation has stopped?

You can't just "stop" it where you want. (Well, I guess technically you can but you are taking huge risks if you don't store and monitor it correctly to offset the risk.)

[Stoobrew]

Your a crack ur billk I'm pretty sure I can do what I like being its my brew! Muddy has been helping althought I wasn't expecting all the old boys to get their pantys in a twist over what Im doing with my home brew! Clearly I can stop fermentation when I like... Now I could crack a bottle from yesterday and drop the hydrometer in it just to prove it was done yesterday but I'm not going to destroy a good beer for your piece of mind! I heard this saying once about assumptions making an app of the assumer! Now that is being is being derogatory!! Cheers for the help muddy will keep you posted on the taste! Will be working on my time delayed secondary fermentation vault tonight to solve this waiting problem...have a cupboard pretty well set up to sit at 22 degrees I can just open the door when ever I like!!

[Matty A]

I think they are just a little worried that if the yeast decided they want to ferment down to 1.008 (I have had brews do this), then with the addition of the priming sugar it will create more gas then desired.

 

Yes it is true that you can stop fermentation when you want, but from what I have heard (I have never done it) once you kill the yeast (to stop the fermentation) you can not bottle condition.

 

Since you are bottle conditioning the yeast are obviously fermenting the priming sugar to create the CO2. They are just telling you to be cautious as it may not have finished fermenting (it would be very close if it hasn't).

 

Anyway let us know how it taste's as I have a similar brew I want to put on down the line.

[Stoobrew]

I think they are just a little worried that if the yeast decided they want to ferment down to 1.008 (I have had brews do this), then with the addition of the priming sugar it will create more gas then desired.

 

Ok so the last lot of English Bitter I did stopped at 1014fg with very similar ingredients,the fg was taken prior to what I said, and it was stable at 1012 for 24hrs then it went back onto the brewing pad and dropped a further 0002 in 48hrs, I felt it NEEDED to be bottled so I did...that was my gut feeling and I followed it!

 

Yes it is true that you can stop fermentation when you want, but from what I have heard (I have never done it) once you kill the yeast (to stop the fermentation) you can not bottle condition.

 

So killing the yeast includes as far as I know, letting the heat of the brew go over 40 Degrees Celsius? If it drops below 18 it will go dormant and may come back up at +18 degrees again? I'm no expert on yeast but I am a horticultralist and its seeming like a it has similar aspects of 'growth' to plants I'm just figuring this part out at present if its flat...I'll eat some freaking humble pie and show everone the result so they can laugh in my face! Thats a promise!

 

Since you are bottle conditioning the yeast are obviously fermenting the priming sugar to create the CO2. They are just telling you to be cautious as it may not have finished fermenting (it would be very close if it hasn't).

 

As I figured and my feeling told me, I assume that the reading was really 1010fg because the brew had dropped to 18 since the last reading at 20.5....hydrometers are not EXACT ever because of SO many variables as far as the research I have carried out on them tells me!!! Also at that line, if its got to much bubble then I can age it longer and it will get better as in carb less? WAY longer as in a year...I mean nothing has been flat yet and from the looks there has always been some good yeast in the fv that I could rinse and re-use!

 

Thanks Matty A I was pretty much ready to give up on this forum, no one even bothered to ask me what I'm bottling into either as I would assume that this question would have been the first. Dont really want to loose all my bond and destroy my cupboard and potentially burn down my house just because I was to stupid to figure out how to brew beer ;)

[Stoobrew]

PS I live in a cold hole and I have a conditioning cupboard running a ;) 20watt reptile aquarium heat pad in it and it keeps the bottom layer of cartons at 25 degrees the second layer at 22 degrees and the third at 19...so bottle conditioning should happen unless somehow the yeast got to above 40 degrees and it will not secondary fermenting properly? And may never be good? The heat has never been insanely high I realise just like plants things have an optimum growing temp which for most 'living' organisms seems to be between 16-30 degrees just like plants...Honestly if I'm a stupid moron and shouldn't be trying to brew my own beer someone needs to tell me pretty fast before I destroy my house with exploding glass bottles!!!

[Muddy Waters]

I was pretty much ready to give up on this forum' date=' no one even bothered to ask me what I'm bottling into either as I would assume that this question would have been the first.[/quote']

 

Not quite sure I follow your logic? If you brew correctly and achieve final gravity it makes no difference what you are bottling in. Sure, if you don't take care or cut corners PET will be more forgiving as they wont explode but why not just take a bit of care and follow the basic principles of brewing?

 

[Stoobrew]

Not quite sure I follow your logic? If you brew correctly and achieve final gravity it makes no difference what you are bottling in. Sure, if you don't take care or cut corners PET will be more forgiving as they wont explode but why not just take a bit of care and follow the basic principles of brewing?

 

Ok Muddy have you ever heard of someone who has ever had an English bitter with 1kg of liquid malt and 500g of LDM ferment to below 1010fg? That is my logic...no where on the internet can I find that? Most come out at 1014...1012 styles...I get the basic principals hydrometer must be constant for 24 hrs....is this like some kinda GOLDEN RULE that MUST NOT BE BROKEN??? Because if so I'm sorry i've messed it all up...i guess your all glad you dont have to drink it kinda thing?

[Muddy Waters]

Personally if checking for FG I'd look for stability over 48-72hrs rather than 24hrs but like you I use past knowledge to know roughly when my beer has finished according to ingredients used. However I always leave my beer in the fermentor for 7 days after FG is achieved to allow for a better tasting and clearer beer. I let it age for months rather than weeks (years for stouts - but I don't drink many of them so this isn't hard [biggrin] ).

 

A rushed beer tastes like a rushed beer. Patience has many rewards.

 

But I guess we are just going round in circles...you're brewing for Stoo so when it comes down to it if you enjoy it that is all that matters [cool]

[Stoobrew]

Personally if checking for FG I'd look for stability over 48-72hrs rather than 24hrs but like you I use past knowledge to know roughly when my beer has finished according to ingredients used. However I always leave my beer in the fermentor for 7 days after FG is achieved to allow for a better tasting and clearer beer.

 

Wow I assumed Muddy Waters had something to do with Cooper beer(yeah im an ass)& that you like me grew up drinking muddy water ;) The first beer I ever tasted was a Coopers Pale Ale being a good South Aussie and coming of age just before they moved from Kensington to Regency :( so yeah I dont mind my beer a bit think. I actually had to TEACH myself how to drink 'see though' beer when I moved over to Canberra a decade ago...The real thing was I didnt want it to go much past the 5.1% alcohol...because it sounded like it was going to come out like that, and Ive heard that letting the brew sit in the fv will make it more likely to go bad...dude your a champ but some of us like drinking muddy water ;) Clear beer just means...mass produced, its like growing my own veggies..even if they look like blemished etc they still taste better than the stuff from the shop :D

[Muddy Waters]

I grew up on "Muddy Waters" myself but in home brew I generally prefer to leave most of the sediment in the bottle unless it suits the style. This is why I let the yeast do the housework...there is still sediment just not truckloads....it isn't as if I filter my beer or anything [biggrin].

 

Yeah you generally shouldn't leave your brew in the fermentor for months at a time but most brewers with a bit of experience will tell you that 2 weeks in the fermentor for an ale is a good rule of thumb for better beer. For a lager you may need longer....just like growing your own veges really why pick them early and eat crap when you can let them mature to their fullest potential and feast on fabulous, fresh home grown produce much better than the stuff from the shop [rightful]

[Stoobrew]

When I have my squirrel loads I will be leaving it as long as possible! I have figured out how to make FV's thanks to some big hardware chain in Aus for less that $30 so just learning the ropes and trying my hardest to be patient(I have 4 fv's at present,2 made,1 present,1 from a mate the used to brew)...I think just like the veggies where im going wrong, the thing is with veg is its always better to pick it when its young and ripe because thats when the best taste comes out...so maybe the time delay vault really need to happen! I just read and have been told that if you loose your carbon dioxide layer at the top of the fv your done...

 

 

[Muddy Waters]

I have figured out how to make FV's thanks to some big hardware chain in Aus for less that $30

 

You should be able to get 2 FV's at Bunnings for $30!

[Guest]

Your a crack ur billk I'm pretty sure I can do what I like being its my brew! Muddy has been helping althought I wasn't expecting all the old boys to get their pantys in a twist over what Im doing with my home brew! Clearly I can stop fermentation when I like... Now I could crack a bottle from yesterday and drop the hydrometer in it just to prove it was done yesterday but I'm not going to destroy a good beer for your piece of mind! I heard this saying once about assumptions making an app of the assumer! Now that is being is being derogatory!! Cheers for the help muddy will keep you posted on the taste! Will be working on my time delayed secondary fermentation vault tonight to solve this waiting problem...have a cupboard pretty well set up to sit at 22 degrees I can just open the door when ever I like!!

Did I say you couldn't do what you wanted with your brew?... I only mentioned that you can't just stop it, nobody can. This is because the yeast will do what it does anyway. If it hasn't stopped then it won't until it has finished consuming the fermentable sugars or it is kept under certain conditions which is risky for the average home brewer.

Obviously you are far more experienced than anyone here and can't recognise when people are trying to help.

AND to think you could crack a bottle and take a reading and it would be the same. Hrrmmm added sugar + yeast held at warm temps to prime, think about it!

 

Ok Muddy have you ever heard of someone who has ever had an English bitter with 1kg of liquid malt and 500g of LDM ferment to below 1010fg?

 

The fact that it has happened to me! I actually went to 0.996 and all the brews I was doing at the time went around the same reading regardless of the amount of fermentables I added. I was picking up foreign yeasts/bacteria from somewhere. However, I have since got around this issue now though and many of the longer term posters here will remember the issues I raised at the time.

 

But obviously, being such an experienced brewer and knowing all about horticulture, know better of course.

 

A really good read and reference is a book called Yeast maybe take a read if you are willing to set your ego aside and learn something new.

 

[jasond4]

Well after all that I'm surprised that you get a gravity reading at all. Your location, Stoobrew, say's "THE MOON".[lol]

[Gash Slugg]

hard to remember, been brewing for 20 years, but I know at least the last 5 yearsI havent had any beer go below 1.010. saying that I use mainly Malt and more then often add at least 200g of Crystal Malt. But I am also one of those brewers that just leaves the brew alone for 14 days in my brew fridges, once I know fermentation has started, and just take the hydro reading on bottling day for my records. Have never had a bottle bomb in 20 years. REALLY wanna know how this beer turns out! If I can find some I'll probably give it a go.

[GrahamB8]

I leave my standard beers for 3-4 weeks in primary, but Im also a PLambic brewer so even after 4 weeks I still confirm I have finished my fermentation, and I do my dirty business in a different room [devil]

 

I see a lot of good advice being taken the wrong way and out of context in this thread.

 

 

[AndyG4]

I've probably drunk too much home brew and whiskey to comment, but I'm going to...

 

Just so I can lol at the noob talking smack to the experienced forum regulars and saying that fermentation stops just because they want it to.

 

1. glass bottles will disagree.

2. don't slag people for not asking you for information that you should've provided in the first place (re: bottles)

3. bill k (and others) would've helped dozens, if not hundreds of home brewers on this forum get their start (including me). there is no one on a web forum who is untouchable. but bill k seems like a guy who I knows his stuff, so to ask a noob question about malt extract, and to then rag on people who took time to give a reply, is extraordinarily poor form.