ROTM May 2024

[glivo]

I'm not sure what happened but for a couple of days I was getting a splash screen with 2 brews.  Fruitbomb IPA and Dark Mode Schwarzbier.  The Dark Mode Schwarzbier caught my eye, and I took some notes yesterday about the grain required but this evening the recipe has disappeared.  I was able to find it doing a google search, so no worries there. https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/dark-mode-schwarzbier.html#

I had asked elsewhere on the forum about the grains and possible substitutes as it appeared that my local HBS didn't stock them, but it turns out they did.  It is my intention to make it with the Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager instead of the regular Cooper's Lager kit as I have 5 tins already.  I now have all I need so as soon as I have a spare moment, this will be my next drop.

[Classic Brewing Co]

20 minutes ago, glivo said:

I'm not sure what happened but for a couple of days I was getting a splash screen with 2 brews.  Fruitbomb IPA and Dark Mode Schwarzbier.  The Dark Mode Schwarzbier caught my eye, and I took some notes yesterday about the grain required but this evening the recipe has disappeared.  I was able to find it doing a google search, so no worries there. https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/dark-mode-schwarzbier.html#

I had asked elsewhere on the forum about the grains and possible substitutes as it appeared that my local HBS didn't stock them, but it turns out they did.  It is my intention to make it with the Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager instead of the regular Cooper's Lager kit as I have 5 tins already.  I now have all I need so as soon as I have a spare moment, this will be my next drop.

I would consult @Shamus O'Sean

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

I'm not sure what happened but for a couple of days I was getting a splash screen with 2 brews.  Fruitbomb IPA and Dark Mode Schwarzbier.  The Dark Mode Schwarzbier caught my eye, and I took some notes yesterday about the grain required but this evening the recipe has disappeared.  I was able to find it doing a google search, so no worries there. https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/dark-mode-schwarzbier.html#

I had asked elsewhere on the forum about the grains and possible substitutes as it appeared that my local HBS didn't stock them, but it turns out they did.  It is my intention to make it with the Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager instead of the regular Cooper's Lager kit as I have 5 tins already.  I now have all I need so as soon as I have a spare moment, this will be my next drop.

I do not know for sure, but the "splash" screen may have disappeared because the Dark Mode Schwarzbier had sold out.

Note that your Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager has an actual lager yeast under the cap.  So you may not need a "German Lager Yeast".  My only concern is that the 7g yeast packet is a bit light on for the fermentables in that brew.

[glivo]

8 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I do not know for sure, but the "splash" screen may have disappeared because the Dark Mode Schwarzbier had sold out.

Note that your Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager has an actual lager yeast under the cap.  So you may not need a "German Lager Yeast".  My only concern is that the 7g yeast packet is a bit light on for the fermentables in that brew.

@Shamus O'SeanIt wouldnt surprise me if the kits sold out as it looked pretty enticing to anybody who enjoys a dark chocolatey beer with hints of coffee.

The yeast with the kits I have is OOD, only just, however my recent test showed it to be DOA as well. This isn't a problem as Coopers kindly provided me with replacement yeast in more than adequate quantity, for which I am very grateful.  I look forward to making this one up.  As a very simple partial grain it shouldn't be difficult and the recipe instructions are very clear.  This recipe looks like a bit of fun instead of just making kit and kilo.

[glivo]

I'm going to make this in a slightly adjusted combination of ingredients just to fit in with what I have on hand and in order to make a 59 litre fermentation producing 3 X 19 litre kegs.  It shouldn't make too much difference.  The conversion factor is X 2.565 so I'm going to use 3 cans of the Thomas Cooper Lager which is a bit over and cut back a little on the brewing sugars.  The grain and yeast will be added in full ratio to the original.

I'll use only 2 kg of BE2 and 1 kg of LDME which is a loss of about 850g, but I'm 680g over from the 3 tins.  I could compensate that by adding a little extra Dextrose or un-hopped liquid malt extract, but I really don't mind if it doesn't hit the expected 5.4% ABV.  I bought 1 kg each of Carapils and Carafa I, so I'll use 625 g of Carapils and the full kilo of Carafa I and 5 or 6 packets of yeast should do the trick.

[glivo]

I won't need to use 5 or 6 packets of yeast.  I just racked a 23 litre TCGCL into secondary fermentation yesterday, which was pitched with a fresh pack of Cooper's R3556 lager yeast. I've harvested the yeast, washed it in distilled water, allowed it to stratify and extracted the milky stuff. I now have a 1.75 litre starter on the go. I'll let it build up volume for a day or two and use that instead.

[glivo]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

I won't need to use 5 or 6 packets of yeast.  I just racked a 23 litre TCGCL into secondary fermentation yesterday, which was pitched with a fresh pack of Cooper's R3556 lager yeast. I've harvested the yeast, washed it in distilled water, allowed it to stratify and extracted the milky stuff. I now have a 1.75 litre starter on the go. I'll let it build up volume for a day or two and use that instead.

This washed yeast actually settled for another hour after this photo and the stratification was better with the trub settling to a much denser material.  I use a sanitised length of 4mm ID tube to syphon the good stuff out of the middle, which I either bottle or as in this case, build a starter.

My Lager yeast starter is left in the brew shed, whereas the Ale yeast one I brought inside the house to keep warm.

[glivo]

Well, I made this 59 litre batch of the Schwarzbier yesterday and there are a few things worth noting.  It's probably easier to make 3 small batches.

Firstly, 1.625 kg of grain requires a big pot and a fair bit of water. I ended up using a 15 litre SS stockpot and 8 litres. The other thing with the grain is that I think the steeping of the grain, while contained with wrapping, is not particularly effective.  I steeped for closer to an hour instead of 30 minutes and what I extracted appears to be adequate, however I was able to remove the grain bag from the steep and then repeat the process a second time achieving just as much yield, or pretty close at least.  I now have 8 litres of grain infused and pasteurised liquid in my fridge. I'm not sure if it will be OK to keep and use in second batch, or for how long.

Second point is achieving the target temperature of 12'C as specified in the recipe is difficult.  Adequately cooling 8 litres of boiled extract took 3 water changes in my sink.  I used only 1 can of hot / warm water to rinse all 3 concentrate cans instead of boiling water for each can and I had 3 x 1.25 litres of near frozen water ready to go.  With my tank reservoir water measuring 18'C to start with, I was unable to achieve 12'C.  I did get under 18'C but not much.  The good thing is that my yeast starter was at ambient anyway so there would have been no temperature shock when I pitched.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying it as the aroma of the Carafa I grain while steeping was delicious.

[TimothyS2]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:44 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

I do not know for sure, but the "splash" screen may have disappeared because the Dark Mode Schwarzbier had sold out.

Note that your Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager has an actual lager yeast under the cap.  So you may not need a "German Lager Yeast".  My only concern is that the 7g yeast packet is a bit light on for the fermentables in that brew.

Just got my pack in the mail and can confirm it comes with a 15 Gram German Lager brewing Yeast so yeah 7 gram would be under doing it if trying to use whats available.

[TimothyS2]

just out of curiosity is there a Dry hop addition anyone would recommend for this ?  Not sure on the science here but my last couple of brews i noted the fermentation really kicked back in to life when dry hopping a couple days out from racking .. Seem to really finish of the brew and got the highest ABV / OG numbers as a result .. I could be talking wish wash here but just what i observed.

[Kegory]

5 hours ago, TimothyS2 said:

my last couple of brews i noted the fermentation really kicked back in to life when dry hopping

What do you mean exactly? Your specific gravity reading begin dropping quickly again or you have airlock activity?

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, TimothyS2 said:

just out of curiosity is there a Dry hop addition anyone would recommend for this ?  Not sure on the science here but my last couple of brews i noted the fermentation really kicked back in to life when dry hopping a couple days out from racking .. Seem to really finish of the brew and got the highest ABV / OG numbers as a result .. I could be talking wish wash here but just what i observed.

As for dry hop, you could use any fruity note hop.  More Nectaron, some Galaxy, Eclipse, Simcoe works for me, Citra, etc.

I doubt that fermentation kicked back into life due to a dry hop.  What you may have seen is the CO2 in solution being released by the nucleation caused by the rough surface of the dry hops, making the brew appear frothy, like a new Krausen.

Having said that, I cannot explain why the ABV of a dry hopped brew was the highest you have achieved.  Hops, like any vegetable contain a small amount of sugars.  But not usually enough to drastically increase fermentability.  Of course, it may relate to something else in that brew: A highly attenuating yeast, a more fermentable starting wort, more plain sugar in your fermentables. 

[glivo]

Yesterday, at 7 days and after vigorous early fermentation for 48 hours, I'm only down to 1.022.  I would say another week at least and I'm not optimistic about hitting target of 1.010 - 1.015.  Maybe the higher end but I can't see 1.010.  It tastes pretty good from the tube sample.  I initially ran a big blow-off tube to a bottle of sanitizer to start off and only put the lid on the airlock on day 3 after it slowed down.  100% necessary in the 60 litre FV.  It would have emptied the little 2-piece bubbler on the first night.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, glivo said:

Yesterday, at 7 days and after vigorous early fermentation for 48 hours, I'm only down to 1.022.  I would say another week at least and I'm not optimistic about hitting target of 1.010 - 1.015.  Maybe the higher end but I can't see 1.010.  It tastes pretty good from the tube sample.  I initially ran a big blow-off tube to a bottle of sanitizer to start off and only put the lid on the airlock on day 3 after it slowed down.  100% necessary in the 60 litre FV.  It would have emptied the little 2-piece bubbler on the first night.

I would expect this to finish under 1.015, especially with a lager yeast.  Give it some more time, plus increase the temperature a little if you want to help keep it moving along.  I aim to finish my lagers with a diacetyl rest at 18°C.

I wonder if a 60 litre fermenter would fit in my brew fridge?

Edited May 20 by Shamus O'Sean

[glivo]

The ambient in my shed today maxed at 15'C and getting down to 8 or 9'C overnight, but it dropped another 2 points in 24 hours so it's still working.  I can put a heat band on and wrap it for a day or 2. The problem with 60 is you can't move it.  Not easily anyway.

[glivo]

Update:

After 48 hours in warmer conditions (diacetyl rest) my gravity has essentially now not moved in 3 days.  I was at 1.022 on Sunday, then down to 1.019 -1.020 on Monday.  I raised the temperature to around 18'C over Monday night to Tuesday morning and held it there for 48 hours until just now.  It is still sitting at 1.019 this morning and there is virtually no airlock activity at all.  I even tested using a different hydrometer this morning and achieved the same gravity reading with both.  If it is correct that the beer is finished when gravity holds steady for 2 days, then this is done.

I'm wondering if the fact that I used Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager, instead of the Original Series Lager and slight compensatory adjustments to sugars would account for this difference.  The other consideration is that my grain steep was scaled linear to the original volume recipe.  Perhaps this has added a disproportionate amount of non-fermentable material.   Any thoughts on this?

I've removed the heat band and I'll let it sit and cool back down over the next 2 or 3 days which will take it back down to 12'C or thereabouts.  I have to remove it from the FV by Monday at the latest since I'll be away for the rest of the week after that, and it will have been in the FV for 14 days by then.

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, glivo said:

Update:

After 48 hours in warmer conditions (diacetyl rest) my gravity has essentially now not moved in 3 days.  I was at 1.022 on Sunday, then down to 1.019 -1.020 on Monday.  I raised the temperature to around 18'C over Monday night to Tuesday morning and held it there for 48 hours until just now.  It is still sitting at 1.019 this morning and there is virtually no airlock activity at all.  I even tested using a different hydrometer this morning and achieved the same gravity reading with both.  If it is correct that the beer is finished when gravity holds steady for 2 days, then this is done.

I'm wondering if the fact that I used Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager, instead of the Original Series Lager and slight compensatory adjustments to sugars would account for this difference.  The other consideration is that my grain steep was scaled linear to the original volume recipe.  Perhaps this has added a disproportionate amount of non-fermentable material.   Any thoughts on this?

I've removed the heat band and I'll let it sit and cool back down over the next 2 or 3 days which will take it back down to 12'C or thereabouts.  I have to remove it from the FV by Monday at the latest since I'll be away for the rest of the week after that, and it will have been in the FV for 14 days by then.

 

It certainly sounds like it has finished.

I doubt there is much difference in fermentability between Thomas Cooper Gold Crown Lager and the Original Series Lager.  But who knows.

You would think if things were linear, the grain steep should not make a difference.  However, I do wonder about conversion of any starch in the Carapils and Carafa 1 grains.  Without some barley grains with enzymes to convert any starch, all you will get is the sugars already released through the malting process for the Carapils and Carafa 1.  I do not even know if that process creates sugars in those grains.  Is the sugar affected by the roasting process?

Whatever, you have still made beer.

[glivo]

It won't be the first time I've had beer finish higher than it should. It tastes ok so far so I'm sure it will be OK.

[glivo]

Well, there you go.  This is something I haven't seen before.  In the interests of being completely transparent, after sitting stable at 1.019 for 3 days, including 48 hours at raised temperature, the gravity reading on this brew has this morning dropped to 1.016.  It clearly wasn't finished and would have fooled me into an early kegging.

[glivo]

I don't know whether to trust it or not.  Stable (or stalled again) at 1.016 for 36 hours.  I've given it till Monday in the FV at which point, I'll have to say close enough and keg it anyway.   This time though, the test tube drawn for the sample is not foamed at all and there is no sign of any bubbles clinging to the hydrometer, but it's still not down to the range it's supposed to hit.

I tried something different today in as much as I have applied a dose of Polyclar.  I've never used it before and have only ever very rarely used any clearing agent (finings).  I used 18g in 500 ml of hot water to add to 59 litres of beer.  Followed the instruction of using boiling / hot water and stirred for 15 minutes to ensure it was dissolved before adding to the FV.  Monday afternoon will be 48 hours after dosing, so I'll be interested to see what it does, if anything.

Edited May 25 by glivo

[Shamus O'Sean]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

I tried something different today in as much as I have applied a dose of Polyclar.  I've never used it before and have only ever very rarely used any clearing agent (finings).  I used 18g in 500 ml of hot water to add to 59 litres of beer.  Followed the instruction of using boiling / hot water and stirred for 15 minutes to ensure it was dissolved before adding to the FV.  Monday afternoon will be 48 hours after dosing, so I'll be interested to see what it does, if anything.

I used to use Isinglass in combination with Polyclar to clear my beers.  I was very happy with the results.  However, it was a fiddly process.  Stir 100ml of Isinglass into the brew one day.  The next day add 7g of Polyclar, stirred for an hour in 200ml of hot water, to the FV.  Now I just use Biofine Clear.  15ml stirred into a 30 litre batch.  Job done.  Well it still takes 2 days to clear, but a simpler process.

I am interested to read how you go with the Polyclar on its own.

[glivo]

You'll have to excuse the fancy drinking vessel.  It was all I had on hand when my lager keg blew, and I decided to connect the first of 3 Schwarzbier.  This was the first pour, so I'm really impressed and well, it is a bit yummy.

 

@Shamus O'Sean, the polyclar on its own appears to have done a pretty good job, although it is a bit hard to tell with such a dark beer in a Mason Jar after dark.   It tastes pretty good and at 5% at least, who really cares?