NikolasW Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hey folks. The Coopers DIY beer kit finally arrived in the mail today and I'm itching to make some brew. But, I need to fire off a few questions first as I'm new to this. My primary concern is sanitizing. I currently live in Taiwan and as such sanitizing is a little problematic. I have yet to investigate the presence of home brew stores here in Taichung City but I'm not optimistic. I say that because I'm sure I could find a nice easy no rinse sanitizer there and I'd be golden. But, I'm not so lucky. In case you're wondering why that is such a concern the reason is this : you can not drink the tap water in Taiwan (you can but its strongly advised that you don't). So, my question is about rinsing after I sanitize my gear with a diluted bleach solution. When I actually brew my beer I plan to use bottled water, so the tap water is not an issue there. I'm curious as to the power of the bleach (never use it, really). That is: Would it be problematic if used the tap water to rinse the bleach off of my gear after I sanitize it? I'm assuming yes, but it's worth investigating. Also, would it cause problems to move the beer around once its finished primary fermentation and put into the bottles for conditioning? I plan on moving to a new apartment but I'll certainly have time to ferment and bottle my kit lager. Is it crucial that the bottles stay immobile during conditioning? Any other tips you think are pertinent, please feel free to share. I've combed these forums quite a bit already but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91abv_chris Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Welcome to the forum, Nikolas! Good questions, all of them. The bleach:water concentration that I've read is effective is 1 ounce per gallon or 30ml per 4 liters. Rinse it with hot water and avoid using it on stainless steel (it'll corrode it over time). Safety tip - Don't mix with ammonia or any other chemicals, for obvious reasons. Lagers do best at lower temperatures during ferments (more experienced brewers can give a reliable range), but I can't think of any reason that a move would harm anything. If it gets stirred up, just give it some time to settle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistnbroke Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Welcome nikolas! Firstly, unfortunately I can't comment on the bleach as I have never used it, however I have heard of others using it successfully to sanitise their equipment here. With the water, it sounds like it is advised not to drink it as it harbours bacteria. In that case, it would probably be a good idea to also not use it to sanitise/rinse your brewing gear in, as foreign bacteria cause infections and other off flavours. Once the beer is bottled, you will be right to move it along with the rest of the stuff in your house. Worst case scenario here, is that moving will just cause the yeast sediment in the bottle to be stirred up. Leaving them a few days will let it settle bac k down to the bottom and clear them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I agree with Chris & Pistn. The problem you have is that you will have to rinse your equipment with something. You can use the bottled water but it is a waste to use it for rinsing. Your other option is to use boiled tap water to rinse your equipment. With regards to Chris' comment about lager temps, the lager can that came with the DIY kit is likely to be the Original Series Lager which includes an ale yeast. This is best fermented between 18-20 degrees. Also, welcome aboard and all the best with your new hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hey folks. The Coopers DIY beer kit finally arrived in the mail today and I'm itching to make some brew. But, I need to fire off a few questions first as I'm new to this. Welcome NikolasW My primary concern is sanitizing. I currently live in Taiwan and as such sanitizing is a little problematic. I have yet to investigate the presence of home brew stores here in Taichung City but I'm not optimistic. I say that because I'm sure I could find a nice easy no rinse sanitizer there and I'd be golden. Try searching Ebay for some Starsan if it is not available where you are. But, I'm not so lucky. In case you're wondering why that is such a concern the reason is this : you can not drink the tap water in Taiwan (you can but its strongly advised that you don't). So, my question is about rinsing after I sanitize my gear with a diluted bleach solution. When I actually brew my beer I plan to use bottled water, so the tap water is not an issue there. I'm curious as to the power of the bleach (never use it, really). That is: Would it be problematic if used the tap water to rinse the bleach off of my gear after I sanitize it? I'm assuming yes, but it's worth investigating. Bleach is not used to sanitize it is the cleaning agent most people use. For sanitizing most people use either Starsan or Iodopher. In particular, Napisan is used to clean. It is the ingredient Sodium Percarbonate that is the agent needed. To be honest, to rinse your equipment I would first try boiling your water for 15-20 minutes and use that. Also, would it cause problems to move the beer around once its finished primary fermentation and put into the bottles for conditioning? I plan on moving to a new apartment but I'll certainly have time to ferment and bottle my kit lager. Is it crucial that the bottles stay immobile during conditioning? You wont have any problems moving the bottles. It is just the same as if you were to move commercial beer. Anything that is shaken up will certainly settle out again. Any other tips you think are pertinent, please feel free to share. I've combed these forums quite a bit already but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate. I would suggest to do your brews one after the other if you can. This may save the additional hassle you have with having to boil water to rinse all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaynoW Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Maybe could try this product..... http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/category68_1.htm A no rinse liquid steriliser based on Phosphoric Acid. Used widely in the dairy industry! I have used overnight carbonation sanitizers and still had a slightly smelly FV the next day. 5 minutes (it actually works in seconds, but I give it 5min) with this stuff.... beeeeeautiful!!! smell gone![joyful] I don't like the term 'no rinse' [pinched] . So I mix 30ml of this per 1 litre bottled water in a squirty bottle, apply on everything, 5 minutes later rinse everything with another squirty bottle with fresh bottled clean water. Just an idea! Good luck & happy brewing[cool] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 There is a difference between Sanitizers and Sterilizes. Starsan is a sanitizer, the product you listed is a sterilizer. The proven cheap way to clean out your gear and get rid of smells etc is Sodium Percarbonate, hence Napisan. With all due respect to this product but I certainly won't be looking to use Phosphoric Acid on my FV, kegs or bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty A Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Starsan contains 50% Phosphoric Acid. MSDS of starsan so it cant be too bad [bandit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Sodium metabisulfite is a product you might be able to find locally. It is used widely in Australia to sterilise baby bottles and can be found here at the supermarket.Still rinse with clean water after sterilising. Keep your Cooper's Original Series (green lid)@ 18-20c. as it uses an ale yeast and while it is a favourite of ours it is not a true "lager". You will find your finished brew still quite acceptable even if you can only maintain temperatures higher than those recomended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty A Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I wouldn't use Sodium Metabisulfite as it doesnt kill all the nasties. I used to use bleach to clean my fermenter which also killed all of the nasties but it needed alot of rinsing to get rid of the smell before using it. I have now moved to starsan where all you need to do is fill up a spray bottle with a mixture of it and water and spray everything. Some use Iodopher in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Starsan contains 50% Phosphoric Acid. MSDS of starsan so it cant be too bad [bandit] Maybe I've jumped the gun a bit, I have a tendency to do that sometimes, but I was reading that the stuff in the link was based on Phosphoric Acid so just assumed it was just that. I know that Coopers do not recommend to use sodium Meta... not only this but I think that was where most of my previous troubles came from where for some reason I just could not reach FG... I would just keep going and going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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